If marijuana is legalized

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It is already legal in CA.
It is only legal under state law if you have a prescription for medicinal use. Even those sick people who are using marijuana for medicinal reasons with a prescription from a doctor may be prosecuted under federal law (although that’s not too likely to happen for most of them).

Regarding whether or not marijuana prohibition should be repealed, I suggest that people consider the prohibition of a much more dangerous substance: alcohol.

May opinion on marijuana prohibition is the same as my opinion on alcohol prohibition.
 
With alcohol you won’t see impairment until the amount of alcohol level in the blood surpasses a whole series of tolerance levels and the point of real impairment comes way before than what a usual person would think.
It is notable that those who are using marijuana tend to overestimate how impaired they are while those who have used alcohol tend to underestimate how impaired they are. I could probably find some of the studies if you want me to.
What marijuana causes is a state of relaxation that will eventually lead with the constant use to hallucinations and paranoia.
Marijuana doesn’t cause paranoia unless the person taking it is already susceptible to it and it is a potent dosage of THC.
People get addicted to marijuana because it causes relaxation.
It should be noted that this is a psychological addition (aka a habit) – like an addition to tv or video games – rather than a chemical additions – such as an addition to nicotine or heroin.
If you are using it to run away from your problems and as a way to escape from reality, it may not cause too much of bodily harm but it is wrong , and from a catholic perspective you are seeking refugee in a drug instead of seeking God to help you deal with your problems.
People who use marijuana recreationally are not necessarily doing so to deal with a problem. I’ve heard of someone who went to a third world country where the villagers would smoke marijuana during a Bible study.
 
It should be noted that this is a psychological addition (aka a habit) – like an addition to tv or video games – rather than a chemical additions – such as an addition to nicotine or heroin.
This is true but also partly up for debate. While the chemical addiction is not necessarily that of nicotine or heroine, research is finding that tetrahydrocannabinol, the active ingredient in marijuana, stimulates release of dopamine in the mesolimbic area of the brain, the same neurochemical process that reinforces dependence on other addictive drugs. So while the drug may not have a chemical in it in which one becomes addicted, chemical processes within the brain still could cause a chemical addiction, if you will.
 
If medical marijuana was legalized in Indiana, I would use it for my pain if my pain became extreme. I don’t think it would be a sin to use medical marijuana for the purpose it is intended for which it is intended for therapeutic purposes such as pain relief. That said, I do not speak for the Church’s magisterium and if the Church ever says smoking marijuana is immoral no matter whether its used medically or not, I will accept that and never smoke marijuana.

For me, it would be the same with tobacco. If the Church ever condemned smoking tobacco, I would quit smoking cigarettes cold turkey right this very moment!
 
A friend…I had not seen him in over 10 years just died coke heroin …he started with grass…I have now in my life lost 3 friends to drugs all had one thing in common all started with "innocent " weed…I now as I write am convinced it is a entry level window drug…many have yes fooled with it and not moved “up” but many have across the board coke and heroin addicts say it was the first/starter drug…I will not in light of the message I got less than 2 hours ago debate it…to open up legalize that is to invite a nightmare…just like I’m having right now…it’s an idiotic proposal …it should never be legal no Christian should support it
I agree with you in that marijuana should not be legal for recreational use but I really don’t see much of a problem with it being legal for medical use only where its use is closely monitored by a doctor and if there are signs that marijuana addiction may be occurring or if there are signs that the person may try other drugs like methamphetamine that person would have to be put in rehab immediately and again closely monitored once they are out to make sure they don’t try methamphetamine drugs and other “harder” drugs. In other words, even if medical marijuana was legalized, I would only be for it if there was strict supervision of its use by a qualified medical professional which means a doctor.

I also wanted to ask, though. Did these friends of your start out with smoking cigarettes? I have smoked cigarettes for 8 years and I have never tried marijuana or any “harder” drugs. I have only ever smoked tobacco cigarettes which are perfectly legal in my state for anyone over 18 and I am 29. I just wonder, though, would tobacco also be considered a gateway drug?
 
…but I really don’t see much of a problem with it being legal for medical use only…
Except that its medical utility is exaggerated, if not fictional. See the link in my post above.
I also wanted to ask, though. Did these friends of your start out with smoking cigarettes? I have smoked cigarettes for 8 years and I have never tried marijuana or any “harder” drugs. I have only ever smoked tobacco cigarettes which are perfectly legal in my state for anyone over 18 and I am 29. I just wonder, though, would tobacco also be considered a gateway drug?
This is an empirical question; in principle, it should be easy to answer. Does the likelihood of using marijuana (or other drugs) significantly increase if tobacco is first used? The NIH says “yes”: see here. (There are, admittedly, some problems with study–mice, after all, are not men; still, not all of the statistical results depend on that particular experiment.)
 
It is only legal under state law if you have a prescription for medicinal use. Even those sick people who are using marijuana for medicinal reasons with a prescription from a doctor may be prosecuted under federal law (although that’s not too likely to happen for most of them).

Regarding whether or not marijuana prohibition should be repealed, I suggest that people consider the prohibition of a much more dangerous substance: alcohol.

May opinion on marijuana prohibition is the same as my opinion on alcohol prohibition.
The fact that alcohol prohibition was tried and failed proves nothing. Alcohol had been widely accepted for millennia before, and even used by our LORD. Taking it away was bound to fail. Pot has never been accepted as anything but a part of the youth rebellion culture.
 
Comparing marijuana to alcohol is ridiculous. Jesus drank therefore alcohol is not immoral. Sticks aren’t immoral either but you can use one to commit murder.
If marijuana is legalized you can kiss an entire generation of kids goodbye.
 
If marijuana is legalized you can kiss an entire generation of kids goodbye.
I wouldn’t go THAT far, but if it’s legalized it will be a national tragedy. Drug abuse will skyrocket.

As a former addict, pot IS the gateway drug. Period. No, not everyone who smokes pot becomes an addict, but all of us who are addicted to harder drugs started off by smoking pot in basements.
 
The fact that alcohol prohibition was tried and failed proves nothing.
If you know enough about both prohibitions, you would see that there are so many similarities that the failure of alcohol prohibition means a lot. Some of those similarities include:

Why the prohibition started.
How the prohibition benefits organized crime syndicates.
How the prohibition costs taxpayers immensely.
How the prohibition gives the government intrusive powers.

Some things that we learned from alcohol prohibition that should be taken into consideration with regard to whether or not marijuana prohibition is good:

How ineffective prohibition was at reducing use of the drug (and how little increase there was when prohibition was repealed)
How crime went up during prohibition, but went down after prohibition was repealed.
 
Comparing marijuana to alcohol is ridiculous. Jesus drank therefore alcohol is not immoral. Sticks aren’t immoral either but you can use one to commit murder.
If marijuana is legalized you can kiss an entire generation of kids goodbye.
If you want to consider use of a drug by holy people in the Bible as a criteria for saying it is permissible, marijuana would arguably pass. Many Biblical scholars translate Exodus 30:23, Isiah 43:24, Solomon 4:14, and Ezekiel 27:19 as including the use of cannabis (while some others say “calamus” instead).
 
2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

I think it would be sinful, as it is intentionally intoxicating themselves.
But how do you define what a drug is? Rastas say that Marijuana, since it is a plant, and not manufactured, that it is not a drug at all.

I don’t smoke it. I have, but last time was years ago.
 
I wouldn’t go THAT far, but if it’s legalized it will be a national tragedy. Drug abuse will skyrocket.

As a former addict, pot IS the gateway drug. Period. No, not everyone who smokes pot becomes an addict, but all of us who are addicted to harder drugs started off by smoking pot in basements.
I grew up in the 1970s, and many of my friends were heavy users of marijuana (back when the THC level is nowhere near what it is now). The ones who continued to use it, without exception, either graduated to other, heavier drugs (which is what happens when marijuana is introduced to an addictive personality type), or at best, accomplished absolutely nothing with their lives. Some are still living with their mothers, and at an age when most should be thinking about retiring, are still talking about the big plans they have, if they ever get off the couch and stop playing on the XBox.

Some other issues a Catholic should think about:

We live in the country that invented the concept of Supersizing a Big Mac. YOU may be able to handle marijuana use, but is there anything in American society and culture of which you are aware that leads you to believe that the majority of Americans will be able to handle a drug that is de facto legal with any measure of responsibility?

We live in a community. Even if you are able to handle marijuana use, many, many, many others are not. People who start to love marijuana more than they do their kids (and yes, they do) drive intoxicated and lose their jobs and get some jail time. We all have to pay for social services to support them and their wives and kids. People with pre-existing anger issues (surprisingly, not everyone turns mellow on marijuana) slug their wife or whip their kids and society (and the police, and Catholic Charities) has to jump in. People who would rather hang out with their buddies and get wasted ignore their kids, who turn to other sources for love and acceptance. People who should know better than to place themselves in morally compromising situations do so because their inhibitions are reduced, and wind up pregnant, raped, and/or with an STD. Pregnant women find that dope is so important to their lives that they toke up while pregnant, and the pre-natal damage creates the kids with ADD/ADHD and other behavioral problems that cause even more costs to the school system for which we all have to pay, and as the class learns at the rate of the slowest learner, the educational system gets more stressed. People with lowered impulse control show up late for work, sass the boss, and get fired. Their spouses and kids pay the cost and so do you and I, just so they can continue their little Cheech and Chong fantasy lifestyle.

While the arguments over the possible health effects of marijuana use go back and forth (as marijuana advocates can’t admit there could ever be any kind of ill effects from using their drug of choice), it would be hard to argue that the most common method of ingestion of marijuana, namely smoking, is almost certain to be unhealthy - drawing burning smoke into your lungs can’t be good for you. Is it sinful to put your health at risk, especially if others rely on you?

We also live in an interconnected world, and the fact that Americans fuel such a heavy market for marijuana has created an organized crime network that has destabilized our neighbor to the south and caused the brutal murder of thousands of people - many of them our fellow Catholics. Every child of a murdered Mexican police officer, journalist, judge, or prosecutor is the responsibility of American marijuana users, by creating a market and a demand, whether they are particular about the source of their marijuana or not.

One could argue that “if only marijuana were legal and regulated and taxed, why the Mexican cartels would collapse!” Unfortunately, this overlooks several facts:
  • Brutal people who make their profits from drugs do not give up so easily. They have made too much profit and too many enemies to start pounding their AK-47s into plowshares.
  • People who commit crimes do not like to dilute their profits by paying taxes.
  • The states that have legalized “medical marijuana” aren’t too picky about requiring labs to identify sources of supply. Legalized “medical” marijuana in California has been a huge source of income for the cartels.
  • It is unlikely that we will ever fully legalize marijuana. There wlll always be a market that the cartels will fill. The profits they have made from marijuana to date has enabled them expand into other profitable criminal ventures, like political corruption, protection rackets, money laundering, human trafficking, prostitution of children, ransom kidnapping, and even more dangerous drugs - meth, heroin, cocaine. They are also expanding their customer base among the young in Mexico. Whether or not you feel that all this could have been avoided by making your drug legal, you still have to answer for the human cost.
  • The PRI, the Mexican political party that formerly struck deals with the narcotraffickers for mutual profit, is now back in power. (They are also, incidentally, historically anti-Catholic. The PRI party was started by Plutarco Elías Calles, the president whose anti-Catholicism caused the rise of the Christero movement.)
I haven’t even gone into the environmental damage caused by illicit marijuana plantations, or the destruction of the southwestern ecosystem by all the trains of marijuana smugglers tromping through a pretty fragile environment.

Glad you beat addiction, Rascalking. In absolute agreement with you on this.
 
The fact that alcohol prohibition was tried and failed proves nothing. Alcohol had been widely accepted for millennia before, and even used by our LORD. Taking it away was bound to fail. Pot has never been accepted as anything but a part of the youth rebellion culture.
Ged,

Alcohol prohibition proved that the people that wanted to use it went underground as did the people that produced it. Prohibition provided us with NASCAR, the likes of Al Capone, and other mobsters that now do not have alcohol as their business ventures but other illegal activity like Prostitution, Gambling, Drugs…Prohibition proved that when you try to stop something people want, someone will produce it because people will use it.

Marijuana actually was introduced by the Mexican migrants that used it to relax after a long day’s work and it filtered into the music crowd and then of course the hippie crowd. There have been several documentaries on this and are interesting. Marijuana smuggling went by the wayside when Cocaine became more lucrative to import ande smuggle.
 
I wouldn’t go THAT far, but if it’s legalized it will be a national tragedy. Drug abuse will skyrocket.

As a former addict, pot IS the gateway drug. Period. No, not everyone who smokes pot becomes an addict, but all of us who are addicted to harder drugs started off by smoking pot in basements.
Ras,

I understand your sentiment and disagree. People are the gateway. Your paradigm is that people cannot choose and cannot resist…People can and do resist. There are people that smoke, people that drink and people that don’t. There are people that use marijuana and people that don’t. The gateway is the person not the substance.
 
It is already legal in CA. They (politicians) are talking about making it legal in FL, where I live. I know the Catholic Church has no official teaching on marijuana but in your own personal opinion if marijuana were legalized in your state, or through out the U.S for medical an/or recreational use is it a sin to smoke it? Do you think the Catholic Church will condemn marijuana?
Roxy,

I read all the posts and see some interesting notions emanating from interesting paradigms.

Nicotine is the most addictive substance on the planet. Everyone knows someone that quit smoking and some that continue to smoke. It has been shown that the more educated and health conscious the less likely to smoke and the smoking unfortunately is largely in the lower socioeconomic class.

Use of alcohol, drugs is culturally directed. It has been shown that there are few Chinese, Greek and Jewish alcoholics and I am sure someone will say, “I know one” however studies show that these cultures have fewer and they are rarer because of attitudes towards alcohol as would be true for drugs as well. These cultures introduce alcohol as socially acceptable and children learn mature use of alcohol and those that abuse are…are you ready for this…shunned…until they get it and that is why they have a low incidence.

You may want to add this to the information…Israel has produced a non-THC marijuana for medical marijuana use…seen here

theworld.org/2012/07/medicinal-marijuana-israel/
It was an Israeli scientist who first isolated tetrahydrocannabinol – or THC – back in 1964. Now, an Israeli company claims to be the first to develop a strain of the cannabis plant that contains almost no THC at all. The company is called “Tikkun Olam,” which means “healing the world” in Hebrew. It grows cannabis in Israel and runs the only legal storefront dispensary in the country.
heard here…

npr.org/2012/07/04/156219412/medical-marijuana-use-sprouting-in-israel

You may also want to include the idea that the Latin American countries see the War on Drugs as nothing but a blood bath similar to prohibition where one Cartel is destroyed and another takes its place. There is talk of selling the drugs legally and then the drug trafickers will make less money as they will have to compete…seen here.

npr.org/2012/04/12/150433647/some-latin-leaders-want-new-approach-to-drug-war
Indeed, Latin American leaders, including the former presidents of Colombia, Mexico and Brazil, are talking about decriminalizing drug possession and providing more intensive treatment to wean heavy drug users off drugs. There’s also talk about legalizing marijuana.
“If we find that there is a better alternative that will take away the profits from the criminal organizations, and that maybe you can address the problem of consumption in a more effective way, then everybody will win,” said Santos, the Colombian president. “And this is what I want, a discussion without a specific proposal.”
When you consider this approach in Latin America and Portugal you will see that this is very similar to prohibition.
 
You do realize that far more kids are smoking cannabis than are drinking alcohol, and yet the ONLY fatalities are coming from alcohol. Interesting.

Here are some graphs that I also find interesting:

https://www.msu.edu/~hertlerg/graph.gif

http://wonderfulworldofcannabis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/compare-danger_chart.gif

http://iloveweed.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Drug_danger_and_dependence.png
EENS,

Then add the following information from Dr. Stanton Peele…
People quit addictions on their own all the time. We all know this is the case. How many people do you know who quit cigarettes, the most common and the most powerful of drug addictions? Did you do so? In the United States, tens of millions of people have quit smoking without treatment, about half of those who have ever smoked.
Surprisingly, the percentage of former heroin, cocaine, and alcohol addicts who have quit on their own is even higher. Yet an enormous treatment/recovery industry, backed by a large government bureaucracy, tells us that it is virtually impossible to quit an addiction—and completely impossible to do so without the use of all their services.
Even the services of 12-step programs like Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and Gamblers Anonymous can come with a price: Many claim that no one can succeed in overcoming alcoholism unless they remain in AA or another twelve-step group.
Less well known is that the government has invested millions to get an “addictive disease” message across. The National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) is the government agency responsible for getting to the root of drug abuse. Since 2003, the NIDA has been headed by brain researcher Nora Volkow, who has popularized the idea of “Addiction as a Brain Disease.” Typical of this exposure was the massive, 14-part series that premiered on HBO in 2007 that officially told Americans that addiction is a “chronic, relapsing brain disease.”
Today, it is rare to see a study claiming some new finding about such a “disease” in which Volkow is not quoted (findings about self-cure, thought far more common, get much less coverage). According to Volkow, drugs (and now, it seems, many other activities) stimulate the neurochemical dopamine in the brain.
The addiction is inescapable, that is, unless it is treated medically, according to Volkow, who in 2011 spurred the formation of the American Board of Addiction Medicine. Except, there really is no agreed-upon medical treatment for addiction. While some drugs (like naltrexone) have been used in therapies for both narcotic addiction and alcoholism, none has been reliably successful. So, when you enter a major medical addiction treatment center, you invariably end up attending AA groups.
The whole “brain disease” model of addiction invites many ruminations—critical thinking we hope that you will learn to do on your own. Do all drugs operate through the same dopamine centers in the brain—narcotics as well as stimulants, marijuana as well as cocaine, alcohol as well as drugs, and so on? Do other activities stimulate dopamine production in the brain? Does gambling (which American psychiatry has now declared to be addictive)? Does eating? Does sex? Does shopping? Can you simply replace the dopamine created by taking cocaine by shopping? I don’t think so!
In any case, what is most important to you and to us is how—and how often—people get better. Numerous cases we all know about, and in our own lives, show that people do get better on their own—or with relatively minimal assistance. But industry, government, and faith-based
organizations unite on the point that people cannot quit addictions independently. In fact, this is one of the few areas of unanimity among them. It is strange that all sectors of American society concerned with addiction should be united on this point—especially since it is wrong!
The idea of addiction as inevitably a lifetime burden is a myth. How do we know? Because the American government tells us so. In a massive study carried out by the government’s National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) in which 43,000 Americans were interviewed, only one in ten alcoholics entered AA or rehab. 1 Yet three-quarters of people who were ever alcoholic had achieved stable recovery. The bottom line: three-quarters of those in recovery achieved this state on their own, or at least without some official recovery agency carrying them over the finish line.
It is important for you to know that the independent, self-motivated cure for addiction, natural recovery or self-cure, is possible. You can fight your own addictions, whether to drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, shopping, gambling—you can do it.
 
I see this thread has been resurrected. Quite awhile ago I posted numerous times in a thread regarding whether Catholics can morally use marijuana for pain control - even if it is illegal to do so. I concluded that it is morally acceptable.

At that time I was applying for the medical marijuana plan in Oregon. I had the application and a physician who would sign it. It would have gone through with no problem.

I changed my mind. Perhaps some people can use marijuana for medical purposes. I’ve been addicted to nubain and I never want to go through withdrawal again (and mine was easy compared to many). I also realized that I like marijuana and I would end up in a buzz all day.

Instead, I continued to take opiates. I had been taking them for years and noticed that I was starting to have problems in thinking but the pain was awful without them (and to be honest, it was pretty much awful even with them).

I’m almost off the methadone (down from 16/day to 1/day). I intend to be off it completely within a month. My pain level has increased dramatically but I’m no longer quite as stupid; I am beginning to be able to process language again and my memory has improved. I’ve done this on my own, with no support from any physician except my present one, who I have been seeing for about six months.

I do support the legalization of marijuana for medical purposes - if it is managed by a team made up of a physician and her patient and takes all factors into account and is regulated by this team through the use of medication contracts such as are used for prescribed opiates. As for recreational purposes - to be honest, it frightens me but that’s me. I know I can’t use it. I know what will happen.

Somewhere I have a link for a huge number of studies on impairment in subjects who used marijuana and I believe many of them compared impairment caused by marijuana with impairment caused by alcohol. I’ll try to find that but it may have disappeared by now. Using the results from one or two research projects does not provide enough information. The link is in an old thread on CAF - in one of my posts.

I apologize for my poor grammar; I’m still very unsure about the words I choose and how they fit together. There is an old TV commercial - the one where the egg is dropped into a hot frying pan and the announcer says “This is your brain on drugs.” It’s true. I fried my brain, legally. Fortunately the damage is reversible and is reversing.

I hope this post makes sense. I’m not doing very well right now. 😦
 
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