If Mary was the mother of God...

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Then why did the Holy Spirit call Mary “the Mother of the Lord”?

The word ‘Mother’ here is not the conceptual mother. The conception of Jesus is by the Holy Spirit (its written in the Bible). Mary was the bearer / host of that conception.

It is impossible for Mary to be the mother of God (in the natural or conceptual sense frequently used for the word). As correctly pointed out by Mary, she was a servant.

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[LilyM]

According honor at the expense of diminishing the omnipotence of God and on pretext of ‘divine commandment’…is not ‘Special’, its WRONG.

If God has a mother, He would not be God.

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And so many non-Christians say, in exactly the same fashion, ‘The idea of God becoming Man diminishes the omnipotence of God, since Man is clearly NOT omnipotent. So if God became Man, He would not be God’.

Yet we believe He did and was at the same time infinite God and finite Man. Omnipotent and omniscient AND restricted in time and space (and powers).

In the same manner, if you like, God both has and doesn’t have a mother, and it is mystery rather than impossibility. And certainly not wrong to give Mary the honour due the mother of a divine being who was also human. Exactly as it’s not wrong to worship the Man Jesus Christ, although it’s wrong to worship any other man, because He was ALSO God.

Some say ‘If God is three persons and not just One, it diminishes and divides Him and none of these persons could possibly be omniscient and omnipotent. He would not be God if He were not just One person’. Yet we believe in the Trinity. Again, it is mystery rather than impossibility.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

And so many non-Christians say, in exactly the same fashion, ‘The idea of God becoming Man diminishes the omnipotence of God, since Man is clearly NOT omnipotent. So if God became Man, He would not be God’.

Yet we believe He did and was at the same time infinite God and finite Man. Omnipotent and omniscient AND restricted in time and space (and powers). In the same manner, if you like, God both has and doesn’t have a mother, and it is mystery rather than impossibility. And certainly not wrong to give Mary the honour due the mother of a divine being who was also human.

Some say ‘If God is three persons and not just One, it diminishes and divides Him. He would not be God if He were not just One person’.

Do you not realize the correctness of that statement? If God indeed became Man, how can He still be God? And how can He face death on the cross??? Was not God still in heaven when Jesus came? (Remember, Jesus prayed TO God). So, did God really come?

God was in heaven AND in Jesus. Mary served as the bearer for bringing God unto earth. Not that she gave birth to God. If she did, then why was God still left in heaven after Jesus was born?

There was never 3…just one. God said “I am ONE”.

God was in heaven, and IN Jesus and is the Holy Ghost.

The answer to all these is very simple: GOD IS SPIRIT.

 

[WetCatechumen]

I like the way you think too. Those simple words are meant not just for you, but for everyone else. What is true remains true, even if I say “Truly, Truly, I say to you…”, it still doesn’t make it true-er or less true does it? Yet, why did Jesus speak that way? Because He wanted to drill those simple words into people.

If God has a mother, then that mother would be the beginning or the Alpha, not God Himself. And that, for your knowledge directly translates into blasphemy.

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Jesus, who is God, has a mother. Jesus existed eternally; Mary did not. Therefore, she was not the beginning or the Alpha. However, the beginning and the Alpha decided to be born of her, after she was created.

There’s no blasphemy here.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Jesus, who is God, has a mother. Jesus existed eternally; Mary did not. Therefore, she was not the beginning or the Alpha. However, the beginning and the Alpha decided to be born of her, after she was created.

There’s no blasphemy here.

If you believe that she can give birth to the Alpha, then clearly you are either not understanding the meaning of ‘Alpha’, or the meaning of ‘born of’ or both.

One cannot be ahead of another and yet behind the other unless they are FUSED and constantly changing. In which case, that would be granting equal and un-compromised omnipotence to Mary. Which is wrong because ONLY God is omnipotent.

 

[LilyM]

Do you not realize the correctness of that statement? If God indeed became Man, how can He still be God? And how can He face death on the cross??? Was not God still in heaven when Jesus came? (Remember, Jesus prayed TO God). So, did God really come?

Congratulations - now we see your true colours. Of course you don’t believe Mary was the Mother of God because you obviously don’t believe that Jesus was God. It explains an awful lot. No wonder you’re so utterly confused.

God was in heaven AND in Jesus. Mary served as the bearer for bringing God unto earth. Not that she gave birth to God.

Wrong, wrong, read John 1. Jesus was The Word made flesh. He WAS God, which is not the same thing as God being in Him. After all, God is in a sense in all of us - Jesus promised that He and the Father would dwell in those who accepted them.

So pray tell, how precisely DID Mary bring God to earth? In a handbasket or a shopping trolley or something? Or was it perchance in her womb? No, couldn’t be the womb, even though the angel said so, because that would sound too much like she was His Mother.

There is never 3…just one. God said “I am ONE”.

You don’t believe in the doctrine of the Trinity? That would also explain a lot.

God was in heaven, and IN Jesus and is the Holy Ghost.

Nope. Not even close. The Father IS God, Jesus IS God and the Holy Ghost IS God. ‘The Father and I are one’. One means co-equal. Three persons (or at least two by the looks of your reckoning) in the one God. The mystery of the Trinity, hun.

The answer is very simple: GOD IS SPIRIT.

God took flesh as well - read John Chapter 1 again and please pay attention this time. ‘The Word’ - the very same Word who was God - ‘became flesh and dwelt among us’. God became flesh. God dwelt among us. So no, no longer just Spirit.

 

[campeador]

The word ‘Mother’ here is not the conceptual mother.

My friend, that’s your personal interpretation, and unfortunately it doesn’t square with the Text. It must be possible for Mary to be the mother of God because the Holy Spirit said as much (again, Luke 1:43):

“And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”

And the Angel Gabriel (Luke 1:30-31):

The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God.
And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.”

Scripture is never contradictory. Could it be your interpretation is off?

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Congratulations - now we see your true colours. Of course you don’t believe Mary was the Mother of God because you obviously don’t believe that Jesus was God. It explains an awful lot. No wonder you’re so utterly confused.

I’m not particularly fond of character assassinations or giving skewed remarks about people. So, its best that you keep your opinions of me to yourself.

Secondly, at no point did I say Jesus was not God.

Wrong, wrong, read John 1. Jesus was The Word made flesh. He WAS God, which is not the same thing as God being in Him. After all, God is in a sense in all of us - Jesus promised that He and the Father would dwell in those who accepted them.

Have you not heard that God calls those to whom the word of God came as gods? So, is God wrong? You really ought to read the Bible.

So pray tell, how precisely DID Mary bring God to earth? In a handbasket or a shopping trolley or something? Or was it perchance in her womb? No, couldn’t be the womb, even though the angel said so, because that would sound too much like she was His Mother.

She carried Him…who was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Nothing more.

You don’t believe in the doctrine of the Trinity? That would also explain a lot.

Because God said “I am ONE”. He never said “I am Three-nity”.

**Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
**

Nope. Not even close. The Father IS God, Jesus IS God and the Holy Ghost IS God. ‘The Father and I are one’. One means co-equal. Three persons (or at least two by the looks of your reckoning) in the one God. The mystery of the Trinity, hun.

I’m not discussing the concept of “Trinity” here, perhaps you might like to start a separate thread for this.

God took flesh as well - read John Chapter 1 again and please pay attention this time. ‘The Word’ - the very same Word who was God - ‘became flesh and dwelt among us’. God became flesh. God dwelt among us. So no, no longer just Spirit.

You didn’t answer me…If God was born by Mary who was Jesus praying to?

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[Rumpelstiltskin]

My friend, that’s your personal interpretation, and unfortunately it doesn’t square with the Text. It must be possible for Mary to be the mother of God because the Holy Spirit said as much (again, Luke 1:43):

And the Angel Gabriel (Luke 1:30-31):

Scripture is never contradictory. Could it be your interpretation is off?

What were the words used? “The child you will BEAR”. Right. Mary was a BEAR-ER. Spiritually speaking, Mary was a surrogate mother. Again, not the ‘conceptual’ mother because the conception was by the Holy Spirit.

 

[LilyM]

What were the words used? “The child you will BEAR”. Right. Mary was a BEAR-ER. Spiritually speaking, Mary was a surrogate mother. Again, not the ‘conceptual’ mother because the conception was by the Holy Spirit.

Who gives a rat’s patoot about the semantics at this point, honestly?

A surrogate mother is still every inch a mother, and as even His surrogate mother she has the right to be called mother of GOD.

But then you don’t believe Jesus IS God, apparently, so speaking to you is like trying to speak Icelandic to an Italian.

 

[campeador]

The words God used were ‘mother of my Lord’ and ‘conceive in your womb’, and I’m sure I learned in biology class many years ago that it takes two to conceive!

 

[Dokimas]

and God is your Father, does that not make Mary your GRAND MOTHER ???

Serious answers only please.

I’m not real sure this is a serious question, but I’ve been know to observe things incorrectly.

 

[Dokimas]

and God is your Father, does that not make Mary your GRAND MOTHER ???

Serious answers only please.

Let me assume this is a serious question that you are struggling with, so let me first apologize for my last comment. I’m sorry.

The term ‘mother’ has more than one use. For example:

The woman who’s ovum is fertilized.

The woman who carries the baby.

The woman who cares for the baby after it is born.

The woman that is responsible for giving life to the baby (ovum, carrying); no previous existence.

Mary carried Jesus and brought Him up. His case was unique in that He has two natures: God and Human. Mary was the mother of the Human side: she carried Him and nurtured Him. I don’t know if God used her ovum.

Mary did NOT give Jesus life. His live is eternal. Mary is not, therefore the mother of God. God can’t be created so He has no mother.

The question remains for all of us: is God our adoptive Father? Woe to any of us to whom the answer is no.

 

[LilyM]

Let me assume this is a serious question that you are struggling with, so let me first apologize for my last comment. I’m sorry.

The term ‘mother’ has more than one use. For example:

The woman who’s ovum is fertilized.

The woman who carries the baby.

The woman who cares for the baby after it is born.

The woman that is responsible for giving life to the baby (ovum, carrying); no previous existence.

Mary carried Jesus and brought Him up. His case was unique in that He has two natures: God and Human. Mary was the mother of the Human side: she carried Him and nurtured Him. I don’t know if God used her ovum.

Mary did NOT give Jesus life. His live is eternal. Mary is not, therefore the mother of God. God can’t be created so He has no mother.

The question remains for all of us: is God our adoptive Father? Woe to any of us to whom the answer is no.

Thank you for being a voice of sense. I’ve got to repeat the point, though, that saying ‘God has no mother’ is as silly as saying ‘God can’t be Man’ or ‘God can’t be Trinity’. To say God MUST be pure spirit, or God can only be one and not Trinity, or God can’t have a mother, is putting arbitrary limits on what the all-powerful God can do and be.

Sure, our human logic can’t comprehend how these things are possible, but they happened. So did the fact of Mary being His mother.

Jesus was God, Jesus had a mother, a body, and blood - there aren’t TWO separate Jesuses. Jesus is ONE, and always was ONE, and when He became flesh was still ONE, so the body and blood - and Mother - of Jesus in a very real sense were also those of God. That’s why HIS body and blood, contrary to the body and blood of mere mortals, had salvific power when it was shed and died.

 

[Tietjen]

Congratulations - now we see your true colours. Of course you don’t believe Mary was the Mother of God because you obviously don’t believe that Jesus was God. It explains an awful lot. No wonder you’re so utterly confused.

Wrong, wrong, read John 1. Jesus was The Word made flesh. He WAS God, which is not the same thing as God being in Him. After all, God is in a sense in all of us - Jesus promised that He and the Father would dwell in those who accepted them.

So pray tell, how precisely DID Mary bring God to earth? In a handbasket or a shopping trolley or something? Or was it perchance in her womb? No, couldn’t be the womb, even though the angel said so, because that would sound too much like she was His Mother.

You don’t believe in the doctrine of the Trinity? That would also explain a lot.

Nope. Not even close. The Father IS God, Jesus IS God and the Holy Ghost IS God. ‘The Father and I are one’. One means co-equal. Three persons (or at least two by the looks of your reckoning) in the one God. The mystery of the Trinity, hun.

God took flesh as well - read John Chapter 1 again and please pay attention this time. ‘The Word’ - the very same Word who was God - ‘became flesh and dwelt among us’. God became flesh. God dwelt among us. So no, no longer just Spirit.

Outstanding rebuttal Lily. The wolf has been exposed!

 

[Bill_Pick]

Outstanding rebuttal Lily. The wolf has been exposed!

Lily, Thank You for a great answer, I just hope the person you are answing can understand english

 

[Dokimas]

Outstanding rebuttal Lily. The wolf has been exposed!

Is it fair to think this person is a wolf? I think NOT.

This person is blind and needs loving care so that the scales will fall from his/her eyes.

 

[moondweller]

What were the words used? “The child you will BEAR”. Right. Mary was a BEAR-ER. Spiritually speaking, Mary was a surrogate mother. Again, not the ‘conceptual’ mother because the conception was by the Holy Spirit.

You do error here, my friend. Mary did truly conceive.Luke 1:31 "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus."It was a true conception even though it was by the Holy Spirit (and no, that doesn’t make Mary the Holy Spirit’s “spouse;” a false doctrine indeed). Through it the second Person of the Triune God took on true humanity.

We both agree that Mary is not the “mother of God,” but my argument is within a Trinitarian view: One God, three Persons. Mary has no relationship to Christ’s deity.

 

[sonettegarbin]

not the ‘conceptual’ (meaning of word idea or concept ) mother because the conception (meaning of word embryo ) was by the Holy Spirit.

A good idea is to examine many translations / also in other languages i.e. French, German etc. and not to get stuck on a ‘word’ i.e. bearer.

31 And behold, thou shalt conceive (become pregnant with) in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 And Mary said unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luke 1:31-34 (AmericanStandardVersion)

I am sorry this will sound profoundly disrespectful, - but with all your and MoonD’s repetitions… bearer, bearer, etc - I come to understand that you are saying then;

that a body was ingrafted into a womb, doesn’t matter whose, as long as it was a female body with the sole purpose to bear (feed via placenta) a foreign body /object to full term - perhaps not even full term.

I am convinced that the birth of our Lord took place this way: - To put it plainly for easy comprehension - The Ovum - female reproductive cell, ovule; egg of Mary was impregnated by the power of the Holy Spirit, therefore our Lord was truly human.

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Mary being the mother of God the Son who is in heaven with a human glorified body. Having been the first to truly rise from the dead and overcome death. Jesus Christ sent us His Spirit, who indwells every baptised believer - with other words, believers received a portion of God in them. - Would you agree that it is so? Would you perhaps say you too have a portion of God in you? Is the thought of the indwelling of God the Holy Spirit (manifold splitting up of God into billions and billions of Christians) repulsive to you? I am asking this because of your remarks in earlier postings.

 

[moondweller]

or God can’t have a mother, is putting arbitrary limits on what the all-powerful God can do and be.

The fact that God has no mother has nothing to do with God’s power, but Who He is.

Sure, our human logic can’t comprehend how these things are possible, but they happened. So did the fact of Mary being His mother.

It is a revealed fact, through the Scriptures, that God, the Son, took on true humanity via the incarnation, but it is not a revealed fact, through the Scriptures, that Mary became “the mother of God.”

Jesus was God, Jesus had a mother, a body, and blood

And these refer to His humanity, not His divinity. His divinity did not take on humanity, nor did is humanity take on divinity

there aren’t TWO separate Jesuses. Jesus is ONE, and always was ONE, and when He became flesh was still ONE, so the body and blood - and Mother - of Jesus in a very real sense were also those of God.

One Person - TWO natures.

That’s why HIS body and blood, contrary to the body and blood of mere mortals, had salvific power when it was shed and died.

The reason He died is because of His true humanity. Deity cannot die. And when He resurrected it was with a glorified HUMAN body, the same in which He died. He, in His humanity, is revealed as “the first fruits” (1 Cor. 15:23), of all (true believers) who will be resurrected in conformity to His glorified (human) body (Phil. 3:21). This is all in connection with His humanity, not His deity.