If Mary was the mother of God...

[moondweller]

So, when you read this passage (specifically, “but emptied Himself”), you understand it to mean that the Christ shed His divinity? He ceased to be God?

No, I do not.

I think I finally understand what you’re saying now. You’re saying that He voluntarily stopped being God in order that human blood might be sacrificed in so that salvation would come into the world. Right? This would truly make Mary the mother of man and not God. Of course! Eureka!.. (I’ve always wanted to say that in a post) It’s so clear now. God stopped being God for 33 years. Gottcha.

LOL You don’t win arguments by putting words in other people’s mouths. You only fool yourself.

 

[moondweller]

Don’t even go there, Moon.

Already went there, Tom

We have already shown you your interpretations of Scriptures are bogus!

You’ve asserted but not shown.

 

[sonettegarbin]

For all intents and purposes this is a denial of the humanity of Christ.Matt 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.”

Mark 13:32 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father {alone.}"So in light of these words uttered by Jesus, based on the statement above, are we to conclude that God the Son is a lesser God than God the Father?

The problem with Catholicism is that it became so paranoid of heresy concerning the deity of Christ, that it’s gone way to the other side of the pendulum swing. It’s all but turned its back on the glorious facts connected to Christ’s humanity. The miracle of the ages isn’t that Christ was Divine, but that He was truly Man (body soul and spirit) and walked on this earth as a MAN in complete obedience to the Father “to the point of death, even death on a cross.” (read Phil. 2:6-11).

The “second Man” (1 Cor. 15:47) did what the first man did not, and, as a Man, redeemed forever, by His blood, those who would personally believe in Him.

You don’t have to be afraid of the humanity of Christ, people. It’s a glorious thing. In fact, it’s through His humanity that we see the image of the invisible God (Col. 1:15).

I did not understand his comment to be meant to be as the above after all that was said - perhaps a bit of keyboard finger trouble maybe

Thank you Moondweller for your testimony and for defending our beloved Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. The “Catholic” barb has been whitewashed in my book.

 

[ufamtobie]

I delivered a parcel to your house. Does that make me its mother?

Rumpel, are you calling Jesus Christ a ''Parcel" that is blasphemy! Shame on you! And shame on you for having no respect for the Mother of God.
Rumpel, there is a saying in the bible used by our Lord and it goes like this: Get thee behind me satan suggest no thoughts to me, evil is the cup thy offerest drink thy own poison.

Ufamtobie

 

[sonettegarbin]

ufamtobie:
Thank you ufamtobie -
Me thinks Rumpels has already, way back, trancended the meaning of menial sin…
God Bless

 

[PeaceSerenity]

I know I already said this but I’ll say it again:

Luke 1:

31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33

It does not say, “it will be conceived in your womb”, but rather, you will conceive through the Holy Spirit.

Luke 2:

46 Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions. 47 And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers. 48 So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously.”

This passage clearly refers to Mary as Jesus’s mother…so if Mary is Jesus’ mother, and Jesus is God…then Mary is the Mother of God! Simple

 

[Roy5]

I haven’t read all the postings in this thread, so probably someone has suggested what I am about to suggest.

God, according to Christian doctrine, was truly man and truly God. Okay. It strikes me that Mary was the mother of his humanity, so to speak. She provided the flesh and blood and all that goes into creating a child.

However, this is not the same as being the mother of God. Christ's divinity came from the Holy Spirit. Hence, I find myself resisting the doctrine that Mary was the Mother of God. God was always, eternal. God has no mother or father. The human Jesus had a mother, and that was Mary. 

 It seems to me that this is in line with the dogma that Christ was fully human and fully divine. 

 In all honesty, I have felt for some time that certain segments of Catholicism dangerously rub shoulders with paganism when they elevate Mary to Queen of Heaven along with numerous similar accolades. I find that being mother of Jesus is quite admirable enough without making her into - essentially - a goddess. It can seem that in many local situations she receives more attention sometimes than Jesus. In this community we have five Catholic churches and three are named to glorify Mary, two after saints, none after Christ or the Trinity.

  It interests me that Mary receives such deep, deep devotion from an all-male priesthood. I wonder how psychologists might view this.  I can only guess.

  Mary is to be honored, of course, but veneration so often seems to turn into what appears to be worship.

 

[swariffin]

Here are a few biblical references of the Holy Spirit.

Genesis 3:8,9
When they heard the sound of the LORD God moving about in the garden at the breezy time of the day, the man and his wife hid themselves from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. the LORD God then called to the man and asked him, “Where are you?”

Exodus 3:1-4
Meanwhile Moses was tending the flock of his father-in-law Jethro, the priest of Midian. Leading the flock across the desert, he came to Horeb, the mountain of God. There an angel of the LORD appeared to him in fire flaming out of a bush. As he looked on, he was surprised to see that the bush, though on fire, was not consumed. So Moses decided, “I must go over to look at this remarkable sight, and see why the bush is not burned.” **When the LORD saw him coming over to look at it more closely, God called out to him from the bush, “Moses! Moses!” He answered, “Here I am.” **

Matthew 3:16-17
After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him. And a voice came from the heavens, saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

Matthew 28:19
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,

John 14:16,17
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always, the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.

John 14:26
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the holy Spirit be with all of you.

Acts 2:32,33
God raised this Jesus; of this we are all witnesses. Exalted at the right hand of God, he received the promise of the holy Spirit from the Father and poured it forth, as you (both) see and hear.

Romans 8:27
And the one who searches hearts knows what is the intention of the Spirit, because it intercedes for the holy ones according to God’s will.

1 Corinthians 12:11
But one and the same Spirit produces all of these, distributing them individually to each person as he wishes.

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Isaiah 63:10
Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them.

Luke 10: 21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.”

1 Thessalonians 1:6
You became imitators of us and of the Lord; in spite of severe suffering, you welcomed the message with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.

I hope this helps.

Thanks Brother, I told our brother Rumple that I am playing as the devils’ advocate. I want to know what reason that he believes things. I am very sure that he is not a kind of people who has blind faith to what they believe.

 

[Rocky]

I haven’t read all the postings in this thread, so probably someone has suggested what I am about to suggest.

God, according to Christian doctrine, was truly man and truly God. Okay. It strikes me that Mary was the mother of his humanity, so to speak. She provided the flesh and blood and all that goes into creating a child.

However, this is not the same as being the mother of God. Christ's divinity came from the Holy Spirit. Hence, I find myself resisting the doctrine that Mary was the Mother of God. God was always, eternal. God has no mother or father. The human Jesus had a mother, and that was Mary. 

 It seems to me that this is in line with the dogma that Christ was fully human and fully divine. 

 In all honesty, I have felt for some time that certain segments of Catholicism dangerously rub shoulders with paganism when they elevate Mary to Queen of Heaven along with numerous similar accolades. I find that being mother of Jesus is quite admirable enough without making her into - essentially - a goddess. It can seem that in many local situations she receives more attention sometimes than Jesus. In this community we have five Catholic churches and three are named to glorify Mary, two after saints, none after Christ or the Trinity.

  It interests me that Mary receives such deep, deep devotion from an all-male priesthood. I wonder how psychologists might view this.  I can only guess.

  **Mary is to be honored, of course, but veneration so often seems to turn into what appears to be worship**.

*For Catholics “worship” must include sacrifice. And we offer sacrifice at every Mass by taking part in the eternal sacrifice of Christ on the cross, offering in an unbloody manner His Body and Blood to God the Father, through, with and in Him (Christ) in union with the Holy Spirit.

We may pray for intercession to Saints who are in Heaven, including Mary, but we never, ever offer sacrifice to anyone but the Triune God. Therefore, we do not worship anyone but God.
*

 

[MartinJordan]

I haven’t read all the postings in this thread, so probably someone has suggested what I am about to suggest.

God, according to Christian doctrine, was truly man and truly God. Okay. It strikes me that Mary was the mother of his humanity, so to speak. She provided the flesh and blood and all that goes into creating a child.

However, this is not the same as being the mother of God. Christ's divinity came from the Holy Spirit. Hence, I find myself resisting the doctrine that Mary was the Mother of God. God was always, eternal. God has no mother or father. The human Jesus had a mother, and that was Mary. 

 It seems to me that this is in line with the dogma that Christ was fully human and fully divine. 

 In all honesty, I have felt for some time that certain segments of Catholicism dangerously rub shoulders with paganism when they elevate Mary to Queen of Heaven along with numerous similar accolades. I find that being mother of Jesus is quite admirable enough without making her into - essentially - a goddess. It can seem that in many local situations she receives more attention sometimes than Jesus. In this community we have five Catholic churches and three are named to glorify Mary, two after saints, none after Christ or the Trinity.

  It interests me that Mary receives such deep, deep devotion from an all-male priesthood. I wonder how psychologists might view this.  I can only guess.

  Mary is to be honored, of course, but veneration so often seems to turn into what appears to be worship.

You must be kidding. Trusting psychologists?So it’s clear there are still people who trust in Men. Despite the fact they “believe” in God, The Trinity. We need the Holy Spirit to guide us, not Men.

MJ

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Emphasis

Good reasoning! You were a sperm in your father’s… uhm…‘pocket’ before he used your mother as a bearer (cocoon) and she had nothing to do with what you turned out to be! Your mother could have been paid for the job, but by ‘consenting’ prevented her being used like a prostitute! Still, she didn’t make you; your father did! Might as well go throw her in the rubbish.

See that word “blasphemy” you used up there? Be very, very careful of what you begin to imply about how God, apparently, uses human beings as empty shells or cocoons.

Your questioning may have enquirer validity, but be mindful of what you may inadvertently be ‘saying’ about what God did. There is no evidence, from Creation to you drawing breath, that He has ever used any person AGAINST their freedom of will; EVER!..nor that He used any person as a useless carcass for ‘carrying’ like a smuggler.

I mean, EVER!

If you wanna learn, fine! If you disagree with the answers from the Church, then reject them and continue ‘protesting.’ But if the horse is ordorous, it’s probably dead!

Mindful?..We have to be mindful when we say someone gave birth to Divinity. That statement is itself un-mindful of what and who God is.

Did Mary give birth to Divinity? Yes or No?

If yes, then that’s saying she is the mother of God, and that makes her GREATER than God…and that is blasphemy.

If no, then that’s saying she is not the mother of God because God is divinity.

Its as simple as that. We’re going around in circles because there has been no ability to put up substantial argument for except quoting and re-quoting a phrase made by Elizabeth whose exact words do not imply Mary is the MOTHER of the CREATOR, but that she was the mother of the Lord who came in the form of humanity.

 

[MartinJordan]

What? No one said Mary is the Mother Of The Creator!

MJ

 

[sixofseven]

Mindful?..We have to be mindful when we say someone gave birth to Divinity. That statement is itself un-mindful of what and who God is.

Did Mary give birth to Divinity? Yes or No?

If yes, then that’s saying she is the mother of God, and that makes her GREATER than God…and that is blasphemy.

If no, then that’s saying she is not the mother of God because God is divinity.

Its as simple as that. We’re going around in circles because there has been no ability to put up substantial argument for except quoting and re-quoting a phrase made by Elizabeth whose exact words do not imply Mary is the MOTHER of the CREATOR, but that she was the mother of the Lord who came in the form of humanity.

Mary did not give birth to Divinity but to a Divine Person - so yes she is the Mother of God becasue Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity…God. Three persons, one God. Elizabeth’s words confirm that Mary is the Mother of our Lord, who is Jesus Chirst, who is God. I’m not going to say it again.

It is not blasphemy, it is the truth. You either accept that truth or not. It’s as simple as that.

:hypno: enough circles. You have not/will not change your own or our beliefs so I suggest this ends now.

 

[PeaceSerenity]

Mindful?..We have to be mindful when we say someone gave birth to Divinity. That statement is itself un-mindful of what and who God is.

Did Mary give birth to Divinity? Yes or No?

If yes, then that’s saying she is the mother of God, and that makes her GREATER than God…and that is blasphemy.

If no, then that’s saying she is not the mother of God because God is divinity.

Its as simple as that. We’re going around in circles because there has been no ability to put up substantial argument for except quoting and re-quoting a phrase made by Elizabeth whose exact words do not imply Mary is the MOTHER of the CREATOR, but that she was the mother of the Lord who came in the form of humanity.

The two “parts” of Christ’s nature are inseparable. He is not part-God and part-man, but rather, both God and man at the same time. This means that when Mary gave birth to Jesus, she gave birth to both God and man.

 

[Prophesy]

Mindful?..We have to be mindful when we say someone gave birth to Divinity. That statement is itself un-mindful of what and who God is.

Did Mary give birth to Divinity? Yes or No?

If yes, then that’s saying she is the mother of God, and that makes her GREATER than God…and that is blasphemy.

If no, then that’s saying she is not the mother of God because God is divinity.

Its as simple as that. We’re going around in circles because there has been no ability to put up substantial argument for except quoting and re-quoting a phrase made by Elizabeth whose exact words do not imply Mary is the MOTHER of the CREATOR, but that she was the mother of the Lord who came in the form of humanity.

Mary gave birth to Jesus who is divine. Jesus humbled Himself to be born of human, He became man and when He was man He took the role of a lesser, He took the role of a servant and was killed as a criminal. God is humble, remember this.

Also, being a mother doesn’t make one greater than their child, certainly I would hope that humanity hasn’t been getting worse because the greater generations have been dying off throughout the entire course of our existence. =]

-Prophecy

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Mary did not give birth to Divinity but to a Divine Person - so yes she is the Mother of God becasue Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity…God. Three persons, one God. Elizabeth’s words confirm that Mary is the Mother of our Lord, who is Jesus Chirst, who is God. I’m not going to say it again.

It is not blasphemy, it is the truth. You either accept that truth or not. It’s as simple as that.

:hypno: enough circles. You have not/will not change your own or our beliefs so I suggest this ends now.

How can Mary be the mother of God, when God came in the form of MAN ?

If I turn my pen into paper, and I sell it, am I selling the paper or the pen? (This is just for understanding).

.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Mary gave birth to Jesus who is divine. Jesus humbled Himself to be born of human, He became man and when He was man He took the role of a lesser, He took the role of a servant and was killed as a criminal. God is humble, remember this.

Also, being a mother doesn’t make one greater than their child, certainly I would hope that humanity hasn’t been getting worse because the greater generations have been dying off throughout the entire course of our existence. =]

-Prophecy

Can God be killed? If God cannot be killed, how was Jesus killed? It is obvious that Jesus had a portion of him that was HUMAN. Now THAT, is what Mary gave birth to. Mary gave birth to a human, not to God. Jesus is God, but that portion of Him was not borne by Mary. Mary is only a servant.

 

[LilyM]

Mary did not give birth to Divinity but to a Divine Person

Exactly - it’s like saying someone who gives birth to a person who is male must thereby have given birth to ALL male persons, or to masculinity itself, or something equally ridiculous.

:hypno: enough circles. You have not/will not change your own or our beliefs so I suggest this ends now.

Amen and Amen again!

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Mary did not give birth to Divinity but to a Divine Person - so yes she is the Mother of God

If Mary did not give birth to Divinity, how can she be the mother of that Divinity???

 

[LilyM]

If Mary did not give birth to Divinity, how can she be the mother of that Divinity???

Angelina Jolie didn’t give birth to half her children and manages to be their mother just fine - and she’s every bit as much their mother as she is of the ones she DID give birth to.

Obama’s mother didn’t give birth to the office of the Presidency, yet she manages to be mother of the President just fin.