If Mary was the mother of God...

[GaryTaylor]

Agee’d, What about what Elizabeth said, and Mary responded in the Bible? What does 12:1 revelation refer to?

 

[moondweller]

Exactly. Only the blood of Jesus paid for our sins. That we know and that we believe.

So then devotion to Mary saves no one.

And that is what Mary does.

Proof for your use of the present tense?

And that is what Paul did when he expressed the hope of “saving some” … was Paul mistaken?

But it’s what Paul DID. How is it that Paul “did” but Mary “does.” Proof?

Actually what proof do you have that Mary “did” when she was living. We have no record of her ever preaching the gospel of Christ, i.e., to "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved," as Paul “did.” At the wedding at Cana she told those waiters to do whatever He said. She did not tell them to believe in Him for salvation. She wasn’t concerned with their salvation. She was concerned that there was no wine. Libation, not salvation, was her concern.

 

[moondweller]

The Bible says exactly the opposite of what you say. It says Mary is Mother of God, but you apparently don’t believe what the Bible says.

Isaiah 7:14 KJV: “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”

Isaiah 9:6 KJV: “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

Luke 1:43, KJV: “And whence [is] this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”

placido

Again, like the term “theotokos,” these refer to the Child, not the mother. I don’t see Mary being called “the mother of God” in the above verses. I’m not disputing that Christ was/is God the Son. That’s not the issue.

 

[placido]

Again, like the term “theotokos,” these refer to the Child, not the mother. I don’t see Mary being called “the mother of God” in the above verses. I’m not disputing that Christ was/is God the Son. That’s not the issue.

The Bible is clear: a virgin gives birth to a son … Immanuel … mighty God. Giving birth is being mother. If the virgin gave birth to Mighty God then she is Mother of God. Stop opposing what the Bible says.

placido

 

[moondweller]

Agee’d, What about what Elizabeth said, and Mary responded in the Bible? What does 12:1 revelation refer to?

Elizabeth knew nothing of the deity of the Child in Mary’s womb. “My Lord” is in reference to He being the Messiah, her King, the Son of David - not God.

As for Rev. 12 click . here

 

[GaryTaylor]

There’s but One Name given under Heaven by which anyone can be saved.

Acts 4:
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

No offense to the wonderful woman that bore Jesus, but I don’t see her name in Acts 4.

Thanks for **your **opinion.

When Catholics are talking about Mary saving. They are not saying seek Mary not Jesus or the Trinity. They are not saying Mary herself saves. They are saying Mary interceeds for Jesus, therefore she Co-Redeems. And Jesus has such great Love for her he can’t refuse. Which gets back to scripture about about changing water to wine. Think about that. Here he tells his mother , my time has not come. Yet he does this for her just the same? Why? Because he cannot refuse her. Mary has the abilty to perform miracles. She doesn’t do this because of her desire to be humble.

Thw Wedding at Cana has a bit more significance than thought on this thread. This is a Mystery of Faith not because the Water turns to Wine. But because of the State of Mind and interaction between the two. The word Woman is used, not because of lack of respect. You don’t really believe Jesus being God would have any disrespect for anyone let alone his mother? And Wine has no interpretation of anything unhealthy here. Woman is used because Woman is used throughout the Bible to represent Mary. And once again here is the connection. As it is in Genesis

 

[GaryTaylor]

Elizabeth knew nothing of the deity of the Child in Mary’s womb. “My Lord” is in reference to He being the Messiah, her King, the Son of David - not God.

As for Rev. 12 click here.

Thats not true if you go back earlier in this chaper the reference is made to Lord being God… I mentioned the verse earlier in this thread.

 

[placido]

So then devotion to Mary saves no one.

Yes, it does not save in the sense Jesus saves.

Proof for your use of the present tense?

Because those who believe is Jesus never die.

But it’s what Paul DID. How is it that Paul “did” but Mary “does.” Proof?

Because Paul expressed the hope (at a point in time in the past) of saving some.

Actually what proof do you have that Mary “did” when she was living. We have no record of her ever preaching the gospel of Christ, i.e., to "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved," as Paul “did.”
At the wedding at Cana she told those waiters to do whatever He said.

If telling people to do whatever Jesus said does not qualify as preaching, nothing does.

She did not tell them to believe in Him for salvation. She wasn’t concerned with their salvation.

You are not being consistent. Otherwise you should have included Jesus. He also did not tell the wedding-goers to believe in Him for salvation.

She was concerned that there was no wine. Libation, not salvation, was her concern.

What about Jesus? He was neither “concerned with the salvation” of the wedding-goers, nor was He concerned with the wine.

placido

 

[CWBetts]

and God is your Father, does that not make Mary your GRAND MOTHER ???

Serious answers only please.

Wea re adopted into God’s family. Jesus is our eldest brother, making Mary our mother. And for the record, mary is called the Mother of God in Scripture.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Yes we have “once again” arrived at the conclusion that Mary is the Mother of God.

Little controvery though over her abilty to interceed for mankind and just how much respect she recieves from God, and if you can be saved through Mary. Thats the point we’ve reached.

 

[placido]

Elizabeth knew nothing of the deity of the Child in Mary’s womb. “My Lord” is in reference to He being the Messiah, her King, the Son of David - not God.

Yes, Elizabeth knew nothing of the deity of the Child in Mary’s womb, but why do you ignore the action of the Holy Spirit in that part of the story? In fact what Elizabeth said was inspired by the Holy Spirit who knew every thing about the deity of Jesus: “When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, ‘Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?’” – Luke 1:41-43, NAB.
Elizabeth spoke those words, not before, but after she was filled with the Holy Spirit. And the inspired writer made sure to mention those details you find irrelevant.

placido

 

[CWBetts]

Elizabeth knew nothing of the deity of the Child in Mary’s womb. “My Lord” is in reference to He being the Messiah, her King, the Son of David - not God.

As for Rev. 12 click here.

Well when you consider that the Messiah is God, you are splitting hair in denying that the title “Mother of God” is entirely Scriptural.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well when you consider that the Messiah is God, you are splitting hair in denying that the title “Mother of God” is entirely Scriptural.

Don’t even go there…

Listen Luke mentions Specifically GOD/LORD in this Chapter its verse
25-26. Its GOD not Messiah not anything else but GOD. Lets clear this up FIRST, Then we can move foward with Marys actual reality in this physical world.

 

[placido]

I disagree. IMO, to say God could be born (come into existance) would be to say He is NOT Almighty.

But the Bible says God was to be born (Isaiah 9:6) of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14, Luke 1:27) … are you ready to believe what the Bible says?

placido

 

[CWBetts]

But the Bible says God was to be born (Isaiah 9:6) of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14, Luke 1:27) … are you ready to believe what the Bible says?

placido

Be careful you don’t stray into Arianism. God was born insofar has His incarnation was Born, but the Son is eternal

 

[CWBetts]

Don’t even go there…

Listen Luke mentions Specifically GOD/LORD in this Chapter its verse
25-26. Its GOD not Messiah not anything else but GOD. Lets clear this up FIRST, Then we can move foward with Marys actual reality in this physical world.

You must misunderstand me. I am arguing that “Mother of God” is 100% Scripture-based.

 

[placido]

I’m not disputing that Christ was/is God the Son. That’s not the issue.

Okay, but you are disputing that God the Son was born of Mary. You are in fact (knowingly or unknowingly) disputing that the Lord came in the flesh … (1 John 4:3)

placido

 

[placido]

Be careful you don’t stray into Arianism. God was born insofar has His incarnation was Born, but the Son is eternal

No, no … I am very much aware of that. God the Son was born of Mary but He was enternal (John 1:1). I know that very well. Sorry if I did not express myself clearly … and thank you for your advice.

placido

 

[onenow1]

Wea re adopted into God’s family. Jesus is our eldest brother, making Mary our mother. And for the record, mary is called the Mother of God in Scripture.

:thumbsup And it is sealed on the cross: When Jesus says son, behold your Mother and Woman, behold your son.

As an aside, I cannot even imagine, if the Catholic or Ortodox Churches had abandoned Mary, just what would have happened to Christianity, the only real proof of Jesus humanity. No more nativity sets I guess.

God Bless
onenow1

 

[moondweller]

Okay, but you are disputing that God the Son was born of Mary. You are in fact (knowingly or unknowingly) disputing that the Lord came in the flesh … (1 John 4:3)

placido

I am not. Not in the least. I am disputing the notion the Mary can be the mother of God. She was the God-bearer (theotokos), but that does not make her the “mother of God.” She had nothing to do with His deity, then and now. God (the Son) has no mother. Nor does God the Father. Nor does God the Holy Spirit have a spouse.