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Allegra
Guest
No one should manipulate anyone.
If Matriarchy & Feminism Are Sinful, Why Isn't There More Of It?
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
I don’t think so.
The Catholic Church itself admits that many prominent theologians in the past had a very low opinion of women. They say that such opinions are not truly Christian and that these men were influenced by the anti-feminine environment that they lived in. But that fact that many saints and prominent Churchmen had problems with women is more or less undeniable.
Here is an article on the subject from Catholic Answers itself: catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0603fea4.asp
The section under the heading Theologians Sometimes Fail is particularly informative in this regard.
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vsedriver
Guest
why? don’t you think manipulation can be used for good? I know it is one of those words that has a negative connotation such as discrimination but isn’t necessarily bad.
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Allegra
Guest
You don’t think what? That those quotes were taken out of context? I don’t doubt that some theologians have had negative attitudes toward women, but I was asking if you had examples of anti-woman teachings of the church fathers as you claimed and all but one of what you gave me were one-liners that appeared to be take from various poems or musings. (None of which were cited so I could look them up in context.) Without that context, how can one tell what those people were even talking about? As for the article you posted, it doesn’t really have specific information statements, or events, just a general apology for any contributing factors church members may have had in the general attitude towards women over the centuries. Thus far, in this conversation, the fact that many saints and prominent churchmen have had problems with women is unproven. (Except for Thomas Aquinus apparantly, though I haven’t been able to properly give him the benefit of the doubt either because I don’t know where that quote came from.)
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Allegra
Guest
The word manipulate means to use something as a tool to achieve an end. This goes against charity when applied to other people. People are not to be used or exploited for one’s own purpose. It is harmful the targeted individual, regardless of the result you are trying to achieve.
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exnihilo
Guest
Christ said He came not to be served, but to serve. You are right, our society has really lost perspective. We have no sense of duty. And we have no sense of place. In fact to say ‘you should learn your place’ is offensive to most.
Authority is built upon knowing your place. Most people believe they are the authority and everyone else should yield to them. In my experience most people are an authority on nothing let alone the broad range of concerns that it would be necessary to master in order to be the only authority.
Society would run much better and people would be much happier if we truly sought to serve each other by happily doing our duty in the position life puts us.
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Heliotropium
Guest
I find it funny that no one here has asked AngreyAthiest for the SOURCE of these quotes. All of them share the same thing and is all the sources for them are unkown. Shame on you AA. :tsktsk:
The above is a list of erroneous quotes until the sources are provided for them.
As for Saint Thomas Aguinas lets see this quote in its original context:
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence; such as that of a south wind, which is moist, as the Philosopher observes (De Gener. Animal. iv, 2). On the other hand, as regards human nature in general, woman is not misbegotten, but is included in nature’s intention as directed to the work of generation. Now the general intention of nature depends on God, Who is the universal Author of nature. Therefore, in producing nature, God formed not only the male but also the female.
Doesn’t really come off as being a sexiest pig now that we have the full version.
ALL arguments against Catholicism can be refuted with the proper application of common sense.
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Allegra
Guest
I didn’t ask, but I did point out their absense. Thank you for the rest of the St. Thomas Aquinas’ quote.
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severus68
Guest
Without commenting on your quotes, I would like to say as a Christian that God’s truth is the truth. Humans are not perfect, even saints, and there has been a lot done said and done in the name of God and the Church that have been wrong.
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severus68
Guest
Men manipulate too, its really a human trait.
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nordskoven
Guest
Adam was created and endowed with divine, binding power and authority to be the steward of life on Earth. Woman was cloned and gene-tweaked from Adam’s tissue, literally “refined” compared to Adam, and became his “helpmate.” This term is used elsewhere only of God, and connotes one who saves another’s life as one who brings water to someone dying of thirst. How apt. God aids mankind; holy angels aid mankind; woman aids man. Superior beings are to be in service to the inferior. There is exaltation in this humble role.
When Adam ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, sin and death came into the world because Adam betrayed his sacred trust. This is why men are priests; to atone for the “Sin of Adam.” God then gave Woman & Seed their discreet, separate power and authority: the mandate to crush the Father of Lies and Murder and his spiritual seed. Because of Woman’s misstep in believing the first lie on Earth, Woman is constrained to forego spiritual teaching authority, vested in males/priests.
As Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen notes, ancient cultures seemed to be reading right out of Genesis. Marriage is a cultural universal, for example, as is modesty. One of the greatest exemplars was the high regard for the Woman & Seed. This was so great, that one’s lineage was accounted through the woman only. Sarah and Abraham were free to marry as having different mothers even though they had the same father. There was what is called the Patriarchal Revolution. This is simply the satanic assault on the divinely-mandated foe of Satan–Woman & Seed. Everyone can give examples of this satanic assault on women and children today, heightened by the corruption of the male through media and cultural pressures, and even the feminization of male hormonal levels by marijuana and contaminants.
What we had/have is separate, discreet power and authority. I arbitrarily call it sacred patrism and sacred matrism. This is God-ordained. In the Patriarchal Revolution, which seemed to be accompanied by some kind of vulcanism, meteor strike or other upheaval, groups of males banded together using terrorist tactics to revolt against the female who doled out land, kept the stored foods in her wedding tabernacle-storehouse, and saw to it everybody was fed and clothed with the help of her hard-working husband. This woman was called the EN, “grace.” The Woman of Grace (capitalized as the Genesis title Christ exclusively used of His mother, the Virgin Mary).
“Full of Grace,” the Blessed Virgin Mary is the fulfillment of this ancient role. Sargon the Great’s mom was an EN, and Sargon was slated for death by the Patriarchal Revolutionaries, more aptly described as a satanic revolt against God’s will and God’s people. To usurp power, the evil priest from Ur of the Chaldees tried to rape Sargon’s EN-daughter. This revolt turned the EN ladies into temple prostitutes, and their husbands and children were slain. This is the punchline of The Da Vinci Code, the woman in the shack out back of the lodge chapel.
Landmarks were thrown down and land stolen by the longhouse-living lodge males, landmarks having images of mom through whom land was inherited. This is the basis of the asherah, the little images corrupted into idols misnamed goddesses. This is why Rachel snitched the land titles from dad as proof of her inheritance through her mom. One may easily make the case that the Promised Land is less usurped by God than returned to His people who are genetically related but spiritually adrift. This may be noted in Abraham’s buying the Twin Caves/Machpelah to bury Sarah. They tried to give them Machpelah saying he was one of their own but Abraham insisted on buying this as part of the remnant that hadn’t succumbed to the satanic revolt. Machpelah is where Adam’s bones are reputed to be buried.
Under sacred matrism, inheritance is to the youngest per Hebrew scholar, Savinah Teubal in her misnamed book, Sarah the Priestess. Her publisher insisted she use the word “priestess” instead of EN, the role she traces through antiquity. Because of old, men were priests to atone for the “Sin of Adam.” So note how often God’s elect was one of the youngest, like Jacob, and King David. This is sacred matrism hiding in plain sight, like with Abraham’s child by Hagar not receiving the mantle of election. Sarah defined the elect. And the fulfillment of John’s Apocalypse 12, with the Woman clothed with the Sun appearing at Fatima, Portugal, is a stunning affirmation of Hebrew lineage through the Woman, and her “other children” being persecuted as was her Son, Jewish because His mother was Jewish, as Fr. William G. Most was fond of noting.
There has been cultural misogyny, highest when women are pop-culturally blamed for the “Sin of Adam.” There is a satanic assault on the Woman & Seed. And phony pheminism has co-opted Susan B. Anthony’s outlawing of abortion, along with the AMA. Democrats have singularly forced the AMA to say that so-called partial birth abortion is a therapeutic abortion technique when formerly it was described as a dangerous tissue harvesting technique that always endangers the woman’s life. This pheminism (I hereby coin this term to ally it with scammer ‘phishing’) has ties with Fatima, as Our Lady warned Russia would spread her errors leading to the “annihilation” of nations. Bill Clinton and Gloria Steinem both took training in (Communist) Russia. Within the parameters defined by history and prophesy, true matriarchy and feminism defend and honor sacred roles which have been assailed, as prophesied by Our Lady, through the spread of Russia’s errors. May God’s elect be “wise as serpents and harmless as doves” and may the Immaculate Heart triumph now and forever.
When Adam ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, sin and death came into the world because Adam betrayed his sacred trust. This is why men are priests; to atone for the “Sin of Adam.” God then gave Woman & Seed their discreet, separate power and authority: the mandate to crush the Father of Lies and Murder and his spiritual seed. Because of Woman’s misstep in believing the first lie on Earth, Woman is constrained to forego spiritual teaching authority, vested in males/priests.
As Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen notes, ancient cultures seemed to be reading right out of Genesis. Marriage is a cultural universal, for example, as is modesty. One of the greatest exemplars was the high regard for the Woman & Seed. This was so great, that one’s lineage was accounted through the woman only. Sarah and Abraham were free to marry as having different mothers even though they had the same father. There was what is called the Patriarchal Revolution. This is simply the satanic assault on the divinely-mandated foe of Satan–Woman & Seed. Everyone can give examples of this satanic assault on women and children today, heightened by the corruption of the male through media and cultural pressures, and even the feminization of male hormonal levels by marijuana and contaminants.
What we had/have is separate, discreet power and authority. I arbitrarily call it sacred patrism and sacred matrism. This is God-ordained. In the Patriarchal Revolution, which seemed to be accompanied by some kind of vulcanism, meteor strike or other upheaval, groups of males banded together using terrorist tactics to revolt against the female who doled out land, kept the stored foods in her wedding tabernacle-storehouse, and saw to it everybody was fed and clothed with the help of her hard-working husband. This woman was called the EN, “grace.” The Woman of Grace (capitalized as the Genesis title Christ exclusively used of His mother, the Virgin Mary).
“Full of Grace,” the Blessed Virgin Mary is the fulfillment of this ancient role. Sargon the Great’s mom was an EN, and Sargon was slated for death by the Patriarchal Revolutionaries, more aptly described as a satanic revolt against God’s will and God’s people. To usurp power, the evil priest from Ur of the Chaldees tried to rape Sargon’s EN-daughter. This revolt turned the EN ladies into temple prostitutes, and their husbands and children were slain. This is the punchline of The Da Vinci Code, the woman in the shack out back of the lodge chapel.
Landmarks were thrown down and land stolen by the longhouse-living lodge males, landmarks having images of mom through whom land was inherited. This is the basis of the asherah, the little images corrupted into idols misnamed goddesses. This is why Rachel snitched the land titles from dad as proof of her inheritance through her mom. One may easily make the case that the Promised Land is less usurped by God than returned to His people who are genetically related but spiritually adrift. This may be noted in Abraham’s buying the Twin Caves/Machpelah to bury Sarah. They tried to give them Machpelah saying he was one of their own but Abraham insisted on buying this as part of the remnant that hadn’t succumbed to the satanic revolt. Machpelah is where Adam’s bones are reputed to be buried.
Under sacred matrism, inheritance is to the youngest per Hebrew scholar, Savinah Teubal in her misnamed book, Sarah the Priestess. Her publisher insisted she use the word “priestess” instead of EN, the role she traces through antiquity. Because of old, men were priests to atone for the “Sin of Adam.” So note how often God’s elect was one of the youngest, like Jacob, and King David. This is sacred matrism hiding in plain sight, like with Abraham’s child by Hagar not receiving the mantle of election. Sarah defined the elect. And the fulfillment of John’s Apocalypse 12, with the Woman clothed with the Sun appearing at Fatima, Portugal, is a stunning affirmation of Hebrew lineage through the Woman, and her “other children” being persecuted as was her Son, Jewish because His mother was Jewish, as Fr. William G. Most was fond of noting.
There has been cultural misogyny, highest when women are pop-culturally blamed for the “Sin of Adam.” There is a satanic assault on the Woman & Seed. And phony pheminism has co-opted Susan B. Anthony’s outlawing of abortion, along with the AMA. Democrats have singularly forced the AMA to say that so-called partial birth abortion is a therapeutic abortion technique when formerly it was described as a dangerous tissue harvesting technique that always endangers the woman’s life. This pheminism (I hereby coin this term to ally it with scammer ‘phishing’) has ties with Fatima, as Our Lady warned Russia would spread her errors leading to the “annihilation” of nations. Bill Clinton and Gloria Steinem both took training in (Communist) Russia. Within the parameters defined by history and prophesy, true matriarchy and feminism defend and honor sacred roles which have been assailed, as prophesied by Our Lady, through the spread of Russia’s errors. May God’s elect be “wise as serpents and harmless as doves” and may the Immaculate Heart triumph now and forever.
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Nimzovik
Guest
Give me a break. You are refusing to clarify your stance -period. To refresh your memory see my next post.
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Nimzovik
Guest
Yes there **are **yes and no answers to these questions. Period.
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Nimzovik
Guest
In case you have forgotten this was a response of yours. I *reiterate *please answer the questions. One can not debate with one that does not manitan/define their position.
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StAnastasia
Guest
Doesn’t really come off as being a sexiest pig now that we have the full version.
It does come across as ignorant of basic biology.
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Benadam
Guest
In the book of Genesis a similar society is made an example of as the increasing sin in human kind. It is a society that decended from the matriarchal maternal environment that formed Cain’s personality. Note that it is also the first example of polygamy. In a society that has a 1/1 ratio of male to females this inherently produces hypercompetitive males as the passage indicates.
The patriarch of the above culture was a product of a matriarchal maternal environment characterized by a mother who say’s this about the birth of her child.
This is obviously a statement made from a cultural environment that is matriarchal in character.
The patriarchy that follows chronologically in the book of Genesis is characterized by a monogamous matrimonial bond and a mother who say’s this about the birth of her child.
It’s obvious from these examples that it isn’t male authority over women that determines whether or not a society is patriarchal. The father’s authority is not imposed or even made evident in the transformation from matriarchy to patriarchy in these passages.
The generating force recognized, and that truth realized about the order of human life is the foundation of patriarchy in the biblical tradition.
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Nimzovik
Guest
Perhaps Angry Atheist would like to bring back Lilith? 
I dare say some of the Original Poster’s angst directed here at this forum would be more toward if it were directed at a forum run perhaps by the likes of Anton Lavey methinks…
I dare say some of the Original Poster’s angst directed here at this forum would be more toward if it were directed at a forum run perhaps by the likes of Anton Lavey methinks…
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
Sorry for not replying to any of these posts for so long everyone.
The payment to my internet provider didn’t go through for some reason and I haven’t had service for the last few days.
The payment to my internet provider didn’t go through for some reason and I haven’t had service for the last few days.
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
Most people on this site never bother to provide any sort of evidence for their arguments. I am one of the few who frequently do, so shame seems a bit extreme.
But since you wanted sources:
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power of the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of a woman comes from defect in the active power.
-Saint Thomas Aquinas
Source: Summa Theologica
Woman is a necessary evil, a natural temptation, a desirable calamity, a domestic peril, a deadly fascination, and a painted ill.
-Saint John Chrysostom
Source: Women Without Superstition (book)
Woman is the daughter of falsehood, a sentinel of hell, the enemy of peace.
-Saint John of Damascus
Source: Women Without Superstition
To embrace a woman is to embrace a sack of manure.
-Saint Odo of Cluny
I honestly can’t remember where I found this quote.
Sorry its been a few days.
Woman, thou shouldst ever be clothed in rags and in mourning, appearing only as a penitent, drowned in tears, and expiating thus the sin of having caused the fall of the human race. Woman thou art the gate of the devil. It is thou who hast corrupted those whom Satan dare not attack face to face.
-Tertullian
Source: The online Catholic Encyclopedia at New Advent: newadvent.org/fathers/0402.htm
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
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