if Muslims don't beleive in the same God as Christians, do Jews

[inJESUS]

yes. the meanings would be different. Especially at the time of Muhammad.

which again means that Muhammad was wrong.

if ALL/SOME Jews said Ezra is the son of God, it is not idolatory because the title is spiritual, in the same way the Quran is the “mother” of books…it does not meant God had a wife as Muhammad supposed.

if ALL Christians said Jesus is the Son of God, it is because they are Christians! and again it is not idolatory because it is a spiritual term. There is NO “some” Christians because the rest CANNOT be called Christians!BUT

to put Jewish and Christian understanding on the save level is again wrong
.

whether one applies “all” or “some theory” , Muhammad was still wrong on all aspects and shows his ignorance of biblical titles and Jewish and Christian belief.

 

[SpaceGirl]

I was listening to a right wing radio station and the host , anti-Muslim, said Muslims do not beleive in the same God as Chrsitians and jews.

Well, yes, Muslims do not beleive in a Trinitarian God - but neither do Jews.

Tell me, is it not true that neither Muslims or Jews believe in the same God as Christians?

Muslims DO believe in the same God; just in a different way.

 

[inJESUS]

Muslims DO believe in the same God; just in a different way.

the Allah said Jesus was not crucified; God said he was. Allah said Jesus is not the Son of God ( because Allah has no wife!) but God said he is. Only these 2 sufficeto say that it’s not the same God.

Yes Muslims do believe in the Creator of this world, but it is like saying i love Casablanca (the city) and a Muslim saying i love Casablanca ( the restaurant in Milan)…same name, different place.

 

[meedo]

i never heard that some Jews believed Ezra to be God’s son but in case this is true, the Jews have never held Ezra to be “the son of God” in any exclusive sense like the Christians consider Jesus to be the unique divine son of God. The absolute parallelity of the statements in Arabic means that this is meant in a similarly exclusive sense, when we know that ALL Christians considered Jesus Son of God. Those who did not believe Jesus is the Son of God are CANNOT be called Christians as per the Christian statement of creed that was known before Muhammad was even born. So to say “some Christians” believed Jesus to be the Son of God is wrong.

The Quran talks about the ‘‘supporters’’ of Jesus as Both Jewish observant believers in Jesus Messianship AND refers to the same term as trinitarians believers of Jesus divinity.

Muslims read both and know trhe difference. At the time of Muhammed there were both cases existant . Even of today the current christians would never recognize Unitarian Supporters as Christians but heretics , they also wouldnt believe that these christians are on the right path .

You are Judging YOUR interpretation of the Quran and saying its wrong but muslims dont interpret it that way . Just as muslims dont interpret that mainstreadm Judaism believes Uzair is the literal son of God . The proof of that is in the fatiha surah No. 2 in the Quran it refers to Jews as the one who got ''angry ‘’ of and ’ christians ar ethe people who gone ‘‘astray’’

The difference is clear. God had anger on the jews and was manifested in the destruction of the temple twice. persecution of some of Gods prophets sent to them ( not all of them persecuted their prophets ofcourse) and ways of breaking the sabbath that would start on friday and end of sunday and eventually the rejection of Jesus as the Messiah .

As for christians God in The Quran described them as astray because of worshipping Jesus. which is idolatry .

The case of Uzair is known to muslims to be referenced to a section of ancient jewish people. Not mainstream Judaism .

Again , what you have said above both Angelos and In Jesus is YOUR interpretation of the verse. Not Muslims.

Hope that clarifies

salam

 

[meedo]

the Allah said Jesus was not crucified; God said he was. Allah said Jesus is not the Son of God ( because Allah has no wife!) but God said he is. Only these 2 sufficeto say that it’s not the same God.

Yes Muslims do believe in the Creator of this world, but it is like saying i love Casablanca (the city) and a Muslim saying i love Casablanca ( the restaurant in Milan)…same name, different place.

true. But if you try to look who does the jews believe in then it will be the Casablanca restaurant in Milan .

 

[inJESUS]

true. But if you try to look who does the jews believe in then it will be the Casablanca restaurant in Milan .

Jesus did not say this; Jesus never said the OT is corrupt. Christians don’t say the OT is corrupt. Christians and Jews have the same OT. Christians have the NT because we believe in Jesus. Jesus never said such or such prophet did not do this or that like Muhammad did. Jesus did not change passages to suit his desires. The OT Jesus had is the same OT Muhammad contradicts on many things. I believe Jesus the Jew, not Muhammad who did not even know what son of God means

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Salaam;

inJESUS:

Those who did not believe Jesus is the Son of God are CANNOT be called Christians as per the Christian statement of creed that was known before Muhammad was even born. So to say “some Christians” believed Jesus to be the Son of God is wrong.

Any belief has to start from a person of a group of person.
The son of God belief started with a “part” of the Nasara and spread by birth and other means, to later give what is called the Christians. Allah (SWT) talked about that part of the Narasa who were at the origin of the Son of God belief.
The verse proves to us Muslims that Jesus was never called son of God during his lifetime, but that the belief was a late introduction by a “part” of the Nasara. That part bears the responsibility of such an innovation and the Christians who embraced that belief by birth or otherwise will be judged by Allah (SWT) accordingly.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[Valke2]

which again means that Muhammad was wrong.

if ALL/SOME Jews said Ezra is the son of God, it is not idolatory because the title is spiritual, in the same way the Quran is the “mother” of books…it does not meant God had a wife as Muhammad supposed.

if ALL Christians said Jesus is the Son of God, it is because they are Christians! and again it is not idolatory because it is a spiritual term. There is NO “some” Christians because the rest CANNOT be called Christians!BUT

to put Jewish and Christian understanding on the save level is again wrong

whether one applies “all” or “some theory” , Muhammad was still wrong on all aspects and shows his ignorance of biblical titles and Jewish and Christian belief.

The jewish view on Christians and Jesus is (more or less) that it is not considered idolatry for a Christian.

But it would be a mistake to associate such a title with idolatry in Judaism. I agree with your post.

 

[inJESUS]

The Quran talks about the ‘‘supporters’’ of Jesus as Both Jewish observant believers in Jesus Messianship AND refers to the same term as trinitarians believers of Jesus divinity.

Muslims read both and know trhe difference. At the time of Muhammed there were both cases existant . Even of today the current christians would never recognize Unitarian Supporters as Christians but heretics , they also wouldnt believe that these christians are on the right path .

You are Judging YOUR interpretation of the Quran and saying its wrong but muslims dont interpret it that way . Just as muslims dont interpret that mainstreadm Judaism believes Uzair is the literal son of God . The proof of that is in the fatiha surah No. 2 in the Quran it refers to Jews as the one who got ''angry ‘’ of and ’ christians ar ethe people who gone ‘‘astray’’

The difference is clear. God had anger on the jews and was manifested in the destruction of the temple twice. persecution of some of Gods prophets sent to them ( not all of them persecuted their prophets ofcourse) and ways of breaking the sabbath that would start on friday and end of sunday and eventually the rejection of Jesus as the Messiah .

As for christians God in The Quran described them as astray because of worshipping Jesus. which is idolatry .

The case of Uzair is known to muslims to be referenced to a section of ancient jewish people. Not mainstream Judaism .

Again , what you have said above both Angelos and In Jesus is YOUR interpretation of the verse. Not Muslims.

Hope that clarifies

salam

i took the Quranic passages from many points of view and it is still wrong. BTW, no Christian “cult” denies Jesus as Son of God, even Unitarians. It is just that Muhammad did not understand it’s meaning.

If we worship God + Jesus, then this is idolatory.But Jesus IS God. If you quote all Quranic verses regarding Christian belief, you’ll see they are wrong because Muhammad got the Christian belief wrong, any Christian can see this, as simple as this.

So again, the title son of God is idolatory because Muhammad thought it includes God having a wife. Likewise, if i say the Quran is the Mother of books is idolatory, it only shows my ignorance of spiritual terms…well Muhammad WAS ignorant regarding this title, clear as the sun in the sky

 

[inJESUS]

The jewish view on Christians and Jesus is (more or less) that it is not considered idolatry for a Christian.

But it would be a mistake to associate such a title with idolatry in Judaism. I agree with your post.

the title son of God in Judeo-Christian scriptures is a spiritual term, no idolatory whatsoever. Muhammad got it wrong. Period.

 

[Valke2]

Salaam, Shalom, Peace be with You.

In the end does it matter how we internalize our relationship with God? Doesn’t Islam, Christianity and Judaism all provide a structure for its believers to become better human beings? Don’t all three people have the opportunity to pursue a relationship with God?

Sometimes just to be is a blessing. - A.J. Heschel.

 

[inJESUS]

Salaam;

Any belief has to start from a person of a group of person.
The son of God belief started with a “part” of the Nasara and spread by birth and other means, to later give what is called the Christians. Allah (SWT) talked about that part of the Narasa who were at the origin of the Son of God belief.
The verse proves to us Muslims that Jesus was never called son of God during his lifetime, but that the belief was a late introduction by a “part” of the Nasara. That part bears the responsibility of such an innovation and the Christians who embraced that belief by birth or otherwise will be judged by Allah (SWT) accordingly.

Salaam.
Joseph.

this is a further proof that Muhammad had no idea of the Judeo-Christian title : Son of God. It started in OT, not with nasara.

How can Allah have a son if he has no WIFE?? that’s how much Muhammad understood.

 

[meedo]

i took the Quranic passages from many points of view and it is still wrong. BTW, no Christian “cult” denies Jesus as Son of God, even Unitarians. It is just that Muhammad did not understand it’s meaning.

If we worship God + Jesus, then this is idolatory.But Jesus IS God. If you quote all Quranic verses regarding Christian belief, you’ll see they are wrong because Muhammad got the Christian belief wrong, any Christian can see this, as simple as this.

So again, the title son of God is idolatory because Muhammad thought it includes God having a wife. Likewise, if i say the Quran is the Mother of books is idolatory, it only shows my ignorance of spiritual terms…well Muhammad WAS ignorant regarding this title, clear as the sun in the sky

Again , the only wrong you are proving wrong is your OWN interpretation of what is idolatry in Islam .

In Islam associating a son to God is Idolatry( with or without a wife) associating ANYTHING as bieng Devine equally or partially to God is Idolatry. If you Believe Jesus IS God is Idolatry . IN ALL Modern Christian forms the understanding of God is idolatry .

No Christian Cult TODAY denies Jesus is the literal son of God but before, the Supporters of Jesus were practicing Jews .That is what the Quran referes to . The Quran is in no way wrong in any thing oif what you claimed it is wrong in .

thanks

 

[meedo]

the title son of God in Judeo-Christian scriptures is a spiritual term, no idolatory whatsoever. Muhammad got it wrong. Period.

NO! It is that way in Judaism yes. In Christianity it is literal or even worse desacribing jesus as God himself ! There can be no Idolatry more than that !!!

 

[inJESUS]

Salaam, Shalom, Peace be with You.

In the end does it matter how we internalize our relationship with God? Doesn’t Islam, Christianity and Judaism all provide a structure for its believers to become better human beings? Don’t all three people have the opportunity to pursue a relationship with God?

Sometimes just to be is a blessing. - A.J. Heschel.

everyone will worship God the way he believes but this is a discussion board and Muhammad got it wrong

 

[meedo]

this is a further proof that Muhammad had no idea of the Judeo-Christian title : Son of God. It started in OT, not with nasara.

How can Allah have a son if he has no WIFE?? that’s how much Muhammad understood.

Exactly , thats why we say that Jesus was a creation and not devine. For you have to have sonship as in the Human understanding you have to have wife.

God ordered Jesus to be and he just was . Just like he did with the heavens and the earth.

The problem with chirtsians is that they made this creature to be God !

The jews use the term spiritually . I have no problem in that . actually not even the Quran have a problem with that if you use it spiritually . The problem is that when you diefy this son of God. Then you are an idol worshipper.

meedo

 

[inJESUS]

NO! It is that way in Judaism yes.

so Muhammad got it wrong regarding Jews

In Christianity it is literal

 

[inJESUS]

Exactly , thats why we say that Jesus was a creation and not devine. For you have to have sonship as in the Human understanding you have to have wife.

God ordered Jesus to be and he just was . Just like he did with the heavens and the earth.

The problem with chirtsians is that they made this creature to be God !

The jews use the term spiritually . I have no problem in that . actually not even the Quran have a problem with that if you use it spiritually . The problem is that when you diefy this son of God. Then you are an idol worshipper.

meedo

the Quran said clearly that Jesus is not the son of God because God has no WIFE!! this is NOT how Christians believe it and am sure God the all-knowing knows it.

Jesus being son of God has NOTHING to do with the human concept of “sonship”…that’s why whoever asked : how can Allah have a son if he has no WIFE is NOT God but a human being who understood it in human terms.

 

[Valke2]

NO! It is that way in Judaism yes. In Christianity it is literal or even worse desacribing jesus as God himself ! There can be no Idolatry more than that !!!

what way? If I understand the burning issue correctly:

“son fo God” in Judaism was an “honorific” bestowed upon certain exceptional Jews. It never implied or was taken by Jews to mean divinity. No worship or idolatry involved.

“Son of God” in Christanity denotes the divinity of Jesus, acknowledgeing that Jesus is God (I can’t believe I typed that). Since they are worshipping God a/k/a Jesus a/k/a Son of God, it isn’t idolatry

Muslims reject the whole “father” image when it comes to God, because it is a human condition and not applicable to God, in metaphor or otherwise. This is a valid concern, from a jewish perspective, and there is no shortage of commentary in Judaism criticizing Jews who held that physical descriptions of God (“hand of God”, “…walked with God” etc., were to be taken literally.

Rambam’s “Guide for the Perplexed” comes to mind.

 

[SpaceGirl]

the Allah said Jesus was not crucified; God said he was. Allah said Jesus is not the Son of God ( because Allah has no wife!) but God said he is. Only these 2 sufficeto say that it’s not the same God.

Yes Muslims do believe in the Creator of this world, but it is like saying i love Casablanca (the city) and a Muslim saying i love Casablanca ( the restaurant in Milan)…same name, different place.

No. Allah is Arabic for God, that is why Arabic Christian bibles say Allah and not God.
So what you are saying is the Quran was given by another god? I think you are viewing this in the wrong way. I suggest you do some Islamic studies before you try and interpret it.