if Muslims don't beleive in the same God as Christians, do Jews

  • Thread starter Thread starter rien
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Joseph_Alison said:
By the way Vickie thank you for remainding me about stars.
Look at this one:" When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was".[MT 2:9]
“They” are the wise men which came from the East and you know who the child is.

Salaam.
Joseph.
Click to expand...
They were overjoyed at seeing the star, and on entering the house they saw the child with Mary his mother. They prostrated themselves and did him homage. Then they opened their treasures and offered him gifts of gold. frankincense, and myrrh!

Vickie
 
Booklover said:
Why do you accuse me of mockery when I point out something that is in the book that you consider to be the literal word of God? Muslims are always saying that our Bible is “corrupted” and so on but all it takes is one mistake in the Quran to demolish the idea that it’s the word of God! Can you really imagine God making such a silly statement? Those are the words of a 7th century man, not God!

Vickie
Click to expand...
You were not mocking? Could you explain why the Big Grin 😃 at the end of your comment?

Joseph.
 
Joseph_Alison said:
Did I say that.
“The star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was” [MT 2:9]
I think the verse is very explicit, I don’t need to comment it.

Salaam.
Joseph.
Click to expand...
oh i see what you mean…the star event is a prophecy in OT in the Book of Numbers and the rest of this passage is fulfillment of prophecies in Psalm 72:10, Psalma 72:15 and Isaiah 60:6 🙂 The star is understood as a sign to the coming of the Messiah 🙂
 
Joseph_Alison said:
Did I say that.
“The star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was” [MT 2:9]
I think the verse is very explicit, I don’t need to comment it.

Salaam.
Joseph.
Click to expand...
That’s just a literary style!
Vickie:)
 
inJESUS said:
oh i see what you mean…the star event is a prophecy in OT in the Book of Numbers and the rest of this passage is fulfillment of prophecies in Psalm 72:10, Psalma 72:15 and Isaiah 60:6 🙂 The star is understood as a sign to the coming of the Messiah 🙂
Click to expand...
Joseph was just retaliating because I brought up the stars and jinns bit!

Vickie
 
Booklover said:
They were overjoyed at seeing the star, and on entering the house they saw the child with Mary his mother. They prostrated themselves and did him homage. Then they opened their treasures and offered him gifts of gold. frankincense, and myrrh!
Vickie
Click to expand...
I was wrong, I need to comment.
The verse says the star “which they saw in the east, went before them” meaning the star was **moving **and they were following it until “it came and stood over where the young child was” meaning that the star (the closest is 4.5 light-years away from the Earth) showed them the exact location (which was a house) where the child was. If you believe this, how do you find it stange for me to believe what I believe?

Apocalypse: “And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.”[REV 6:13]

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
not only are stars missiles to chase Jinn, but water as well:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “If anyone of you rouses from sleep and performs the ablution, he should wash his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out thrice, because Satan has stayed in the upper part of his nose all the night.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 516)

Narrated ‘Abdullah:
A person was mentioned before the Prophet (p.b.u.h) and he was told that he had kept on sleeping till morning and had not got up for the prayer. The Prophet said, “Satan urinated in his ears.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 21, Number 245)

Do you see now the difference between the Star of Betlehem and chasing Jinn with stars and water?
 
Joseph_Alison said:
I was wrong, I need to comment.
The verse says the star “which they saw in the east, went before them” meaning the star was **moving **and they were following it until “it came and stood over where the young child was” meaning that the star (the closest is 4.5 light-years away from the Earth) showed them the exact location (which was a house) where the child was. If you believe this, how do you find it stange for me to believe what I believe?

Apocalypse: “And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.”[REV 6:13]

Salaam.
Joseph.
Click to expand...
Hi Joseph! When I’ve read it, I never imagined it as actually moving. I’ve considered it as the style of writing of the times. We’ve never claimed that our Bible is the “literal” word of God though.

Hope this helps!

Vickie
 
Booklover said:
Hi Joseph! When I’ve read it, I never imagined it as actually moving. I’ve considered it as the style of writing of the times. We’ve never claimed that our Bible is the “literal” word of God though.

Hope this helps!

Vickie
Click to expand...
Vickie, maybe it indeed moved cuz there is no general agreement about what kind of “star” it was…it could have been a comet
 
inJESUS said:
Vickie, maybe it indeed moved cuz there is no general agreement about what kind of “star” it was…it could have been a comet
Click to expand...
Thanks, InJESUS! That’s true. Never thought about that!

Vickie
 
Jinn, demons, spirits, strangers wrestling Jacob, angels, etc. everyone has their mediaries with the Divine. IMO, it is all an attempt to conceptualize the unseen/unknown aspects of reality.
 
**Glory to GOD in the highest & peace to His people on earth! **

The infancy narrative in Matthew’s Gospel never claims that the star the magi saw was created to help all people or punish the whole group of some unseen creatures. Actually, Matthew makes it clear that the star in question was a particular one used by God to show the magi (astrologers!) the place of infant Jesus. In short, that star was only Jesus’ star:

Matthew 2:2. Saying: Where is he that is born king of the Jews? For we have seen **his star **in the East, and are come to adore him.

These wise men were astrologers (magi), and God preferred proclaiming Jesus’ nativity to them through the language they spoke and understood. That star is said to move, and this is because the magi considered it a real guide with human characteristics.

Interestingly, the Quran believes that all stars move for different purposes. They do things like setting, and bowing down before Allah, who created them to help men find their ways in dark places:

6: 97 It is He Who maketh the stars (as beacons) for you, that ye may guide yourselves, with their help, through the dark spaces of land and sea: We detail Our Signs for people who know.

16: 16 And marks and sign-posts; and by the stars (Men) guide themselves.

22: 18 Seest thou not that to Allah **bow down in worship **all things that are in the heavens and on earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, the hills, the trees, the animals, and a great number among mankind?

53: 1 By **the Star **when it goes down,

56: 75 Furthermore I call to witness the setting of the Stars

The meteors said to chase the jinns in the Quran, however, is the product of a mind trying to explain the reasons for a general cosmic event through theological implications.
 
Well, to reply to the original question:

IF Muslims don’t believe in the same God as Christians, do Jews?

Simple answer: If the first premise is true, then the answer is No. Jews do not believe in the same God as Christians.

And why not? Because Jews and Muslims readily admit that they believe in the same God. They sure express their worship in different ways, but go to a Jewish or Islamic board and have this conversation and you will find that the majority of both Jews and Muslim recognize that they worship the same God, though they use different names to address him.

However, the premise is false. All three, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam worship the God of Abraham. They claim to know different things about this God. They claim that the revelation they have received and hold to is correct and that the others either have not the truth in their revelation or interpret it falsely or both. But however differently they worship and however differently they believe, it is still the same God.

What about the objection that Muslims don’t believe in Jesus? Well, actually they do, they just don’t worship Jesus. Further, this same objection is the reason for our question with respect to the Jews. So, if Muslims don’t worship the same God as Christians because they don’t worship Jesus, then the same standard would eliminate Jews from worshipping the same God as Christians. This would put Christians in the strange state of saying that Jesus, who worshipped the same God as all others Jews, worshipped a different God than Christians.

As this latter makes no sense, then it follows that the standard which would discount Jews for failure to worship Jesus must not the the standard to determine whether a particular religion worships the same God as Chrisitianity or not. Thus, we cannot apply it to Muslims either.

We are back to three different religions claiming to all worship the God of Abraham, but claiming completely different things as being true about that God. Can this be recognized as worshipping the same God? I believe it can. Other than a few that want to ostracize everyone who thinks even slightly differently than they themselves do, most Christians recognize that even though they have different beliefs about God (such as whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone or from the Father and the Son; or such as whether or not Christ is physically present in the host in the eucharist) that Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant Christians all believe in the same God. Indeed, probably no two Christians believe exactly the same with respect to God (not even the first century Church if we are to believe the report of the Council in Jerusalem from Acts 15). And yet, we don’t hold the the notion that we each believe in a different God. So, it is possible to have different, even conflict beliefs and yet to believe in the same God – though I would propose that at least one is probably believing incorrectly. And thus it can be that all three, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all believe in the same God – though of course, IMO, Christiantiy comes the closest to getting it right.
 
It’s my belief that they indeed worship the same God. However, their perceptions of God are radically different from one another.

I remember that it was either Gnosticism or some other heresy that believed that the God of the Old Testament was an evil god and the God of the New Testament was good.

The way I view the three monotheistic religions is that it is essentially a family with three Children. You have the oldest child, Judaism, who is at odds with the youngest child, Islam. Christianity is essentially the middle child that is torn between the two. This is a loose analogy, of course.
 
rien said:
I was listening to a right wing radio station and the host , anti-Muslim, said Muslims do not beleive in the same God as Chrsitians and jews.

Well, yes, Muslims do not beleive in a Trinitarian God - but neither do Jews.

Tell me, is it not true that neither Muslims or Jews believe in the same God as Christians?
Click to expand...
There is only one God and we all believe in Him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top