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lookaround
Guest
If I am understanding that correctly one must be Roman Catholic to enter heaven?
If one has faith in Christ why should they join (or return to) the RCC?
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ddarko
Guest
As I said, only the Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit infallibly. The holy spirit does not need to guide you infallibly because he has already given you the place to get your knowledge from i.e. The Catholic Church. Your refusal to do so cannot be blamed on the Holy Spirit.
So the Christian who kills someone is guided by the spirit? How about the one who breaks away from the denomination with heretical teachings?
It’s not that difficult of a concept to see that Evangelicals are not guided by the Holy Spirit. The evidence in this case is everywhere.
Well, you just told me what I told you. Unfortunately for you, is it not true that you only believe the Bible and NOT Tradition? If that’s a yes, then your knowledge is unfortunately incomplete. Christ as you said is the Word of God. Not the word describes Christ entirely like you want to hold.
No, others can go to heaven also. But it’s hard. To give an analogy, isn’t it pretty hard to arrive at the correct destination with a broken GPS? One could still make it but it’s hard.
God Bless
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nuntym
Guest
+JMJ+
But I think you missed the point: Since Jesus died for all people, then all people are in some way Catholic. Therefore all people have a chance to go to heaven. The only way to shut yourself off from any possibility of heaven is to renounce your being Catholic.
Now why do you have to join the Catholic Church if that’s the case? It is as I posted earlier: if you are formally outside the Catholic Church, then you are a sheep outside the fold. You are cut off from the unique and powerful graces that the Church can bestow you, and you are easy pickings for the wolves and lions that prey on the sheep. And if you throw away the invitation to at least consider the Catholic Church—your inheritance, your privilege!—then you cut yourself off from all hope of going to heaven.
God bless.
Definitely. Only Catholics are in heaven. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.
But I think you missed the point: Since Jesus died for all people, then all people are in some way Catholic. Therefore all people have a chance to go to heaven. The only way to shut yourself off from any possibility of heaven is to renounce your being Catholic.
Now why do you have to join the Catholic Church if that’s the case? It is as I posted earlier: if you are formally outside the Catholic Church, then you are a sheep outside the fold. You are cut off from the unique and powerful graces that the Church can bestow you, and you are easy pickings for the wolves and lions that prey on the sheep. And if you throw away the invitation to at least consider the Catholic Church—your inheritance, your privilege!—then you cut yourself off from all hope of going to heaven.
God bless.
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lookaround
Guest
Wait… So you don’t believe you or anyone else has the Holy Spirit living in them?
They might be guided but not fully listening (you know that Catholics have killed people before)
If they leave a church that is teaching heresies that would be evidence of the Holy Spirit working in their life.
You mean in individuals?
People could make that clam about any denomination even Roman Catholicism
I believe no one could go to heaven outside of God’s grace
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lookaround
Guest
interesting
So you would say everyone is Catholic?
As for me personally I attended the RCC for a little over a year
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nuntym
Guest
+JMJ+
So lookaround, may I ask, what do you think of your experience with the Catholic Church?
God bless.
Whether they are willing to admit it or not, yes. This is why the evangelical mission of the Catholic Church is so important, so that more sheep of the Lord may be found and placed back into the fold, nourished and protected from the wolves and lions that prey on them. And woe to us Catholics if some of these little ones are lost to those wolves and lions because of our negligence to evangelize!
So lookaround, may I ask, what do you think of your experience with the Catholic Church?
God bless.
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kepha1
Guest
No, the Church has never taught that. In the 14th century when the Church first said “There Is No Salvation Outside the Church” there was only one “church” at the time, so the Church was not wrong. As an evangelical, you would understand that there can be no salvation outside the body of Christ. For Catholics, it’s the same, but our definition of “body of Christ” has been expanded to include ALL, even those Christian families who do not have full communion with our family. The catechism explains it better:
817 In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.”* 269** The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism** 270** - do not occur without human sin: *
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.* 271*
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”* 272*
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth”* 273** are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.”* 274* Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,* 275* and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”** 276*
When we say that Jesus gave no command to the Apostles to write (except John obviously) we mean he gave no explicit directive to write the Gospels and Epistles. Because the Apostles were commissioned directly by God to preach (not write) the Gospel to all nations, their preaching was just as valid as their writings. The preaching is a different mode of transmission that the writing. They compliment each other like two wellsprings from the same font. The first New Testament book was penned 20+ years after Pentacost and verified by Apostolic Teaching and BOTH is and always has been, protected from error by the Holy Spirit.
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kepha1
Guest
Very few people join or return to the RCC by being bombarded with doctrinal arguments. They join or return for many reasons and in all cases, it’s the Holy Spirit that gently leads them on. An examination of what has drawn others deserves consideration.
*No matter how long you have been away from the Catholic Church, you can always come home. You can start going to Mass again (find a parish) and become a part of a parish community that is ready to welcome you with open arms. God is inviting you to dive into your faith in a *deeper way than you ever have before.You may already be feeling a strange inner pull to look into the Church again. That spiritual longing you feel is God drawing you back to Himself. God never forces; He only invites. He leaves the decision to return to the Catholic Church up to you.There are numerous reasons for coming back to the Church. Though Christ is at the heart of the many reasons to come home to the Church, each individual’s experience in returning can be unique, depending upon whatever speaks to his or her heart.
Here are ten reasons* that influenced the decision of many of us to return to the practice of the Catholic faith.*
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nuntym
Guest
+JMJ+
Kepha1, am I wrong in my statements? How so?
God bless.
Kepha1, am I wrong in my statements? How so?
God bless.
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kepha1
Guest
You are not wrong, nuntym; the posts do not answer the question. When Jesus separates the sheep from the goats he does not necessarily rely on who has a Catholic baptismal certificate to make the determinations. (but it can help)
The posts do not answer the question because I haven’t seen anything that would attract an enquiror to our holy faith. We should stop trying so hard to be right. Telling a person how wrong their religion is not attractive. lookaround is not asking for a fight. So lets avoid sola scriptura, tradition, authority and the usual boring arguments and lets tell our guest why it is so exciting to be a Catholic.
I found a terrific article on the Incarnation Principle. Hopefully, we can attract rather than defend all the time.
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nuntym
Guest
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kepha1
Guest
Anglican Bishop Joins Ordinariate for Positive Reasons
Says He Is Responding to Christ’s Call for Unity
Says He Is Responding to Christ’s Call for Unity
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jamison
Guest
Fellow Catholics, please do not be led on a wild goose chase by the OP. He or she comes off arrogant, asking questions without stating their reasons. The OP does not have the courage to come out and debate a certain topic so they will just throw out random questions from afar and bounce from one topic to another. It’s a classic tactic. He or she has you point out all of your views while keeping their own hidden. This way they can pick and choose which topic to debate. There is no evidence of humility in the OP whatsoever. This is common for Catholic bashers who are afraid to come out and debate an issue. Seems like the case here to me.
When I was a Protestant, I would debate often, especially in ministry school. I have studied scripture since I was a child so it was rather easy. However I was always humble and when I asked questions they were sincere.
Only when I discovered Church History did I start to see the error of my ways. I easily had the best scripture knowledge in my school, yet church history before the reformation, largely escaped me. I’m glad to now follow Christs Church and not a breakoff started by Martin Luther, who would be turning over in his grave if he knew what the Protestant church had become.
Fortunately, most Protestants are God fearing and loving people who are following the best they know how. But now and then you get the type who just want to debate out of ego. It happens. Theese people will never learn until there heart is open and not arrogant.
Thank God I’m Catholic.
When I was a Protestant, I would debate often, especially in ministry school. I have studied scripture since I was a child so it was rather easy. However I was always humble and when I asked questions they were sincere.
Only when I discovered Church History did I start to see the error of my ways. I easily had the best scripture knowledge in my school, yet church history before the reformation, largely escaped me. I’m glad to now follow Christs Church and not a breakoff started by Martin Luther, who would be turning over in his grave if he knew what the Protestant church had become.
Fortunately, most Protestants are God fearing and loving people who are following the best they know how. But now and then you get the type who just want to debate out of ego. It happens. Theese people will never learn until there heart is open and not arrogant.
Thank God I’m Catholic.
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the_7th_one
Guest
That would not be correct. Many who belive in Jesus are not Catholic. My opinion is that if you belive, you should seek the truth of Christ and his Church, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth.I don’t see how that is connected to what I quoted
The member I quoted seem to be saying only Catholics believe in Christ.
Is that the Roman Catholic position?
What church best fits that list? The Roman Catholic Church.
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PRmerger
Guest
In the sense that Jesus is the Trinity, yes He did. But He, Jesus the Word made Flesh, did not speak until the Incarnation.
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PRmerger
Guest
Apologetics gets at the heart through the head.
As with most Catholic things, it’s not either/or but both/and. We can provide reasons for the faith, defense of doctrinal teachings, arguments for authority, arguments against sola scriptura, and still make the faith appealing and attractive.
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PRmerger
Guest
This is kind of important to me, lookaround. Could you answer the question above? Especially the bolded part? You can answer for yourself, as well.
Thanks!
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PRmerger
Guest
Which Holy Spirit do you mean, lookaround? (Yes, I am being a bit coy with this question, but bear with me.)
*
“But when he, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will teach you all the truth.” *John 16:13
Most non-Catholic sects declare that the Holy Spirit is “teaching” them the truth. However, there can be only one truth. Since the advent of Sola Scriptura and individual interpretation of Scripture, how can the Holy Spirit be in each of the thousands of sects, teaching all of them opposing viewpoints? It is to be noted that all of the following denominations teach from the same Bible, so why the differences in teaching?
- How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?
- How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?
- How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh-Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?
- How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?
- How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, “once saved always saved”, and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?
- How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?
- How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GOD? home.inreach.com/bstanley/reform.htm
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onenow1
Guest
Martin Luther and Henry the Vlll : Lookaround, just a cursory look at history has to be an eye opener for many ! Martin started by rejecting some of the teachings of the Church and ended up rejecting its authority. In a like manner, Henry did the same, setting himself up as the head of the church ! rejection of authority! .
Today we have the same thing happening to non-catholics that have been taught to resist authority in some church matters,so through no fault of their own,church hopping and shopping has become common, looking for the truth !
That this does not raise a red flag for all is amazing to me !
Because truth has become subjective in our culture Just think how long it would take to find the truth if you had to hop around all these communities; and what it says about our own mindsets !>>>> I’ll be the judge of all truth ! The spirit of the age has a tight grasp just look around
!That did’nt work for the young man that asked Jesus what must I do to attain the kingdom, and Jesus said you must do one more thing, and he walked away sad.
I’ll stick by my first post Lookaround !
Here: Because Jesus loves you,and its the church He gave the keys to the kingdom to, all are welcome, sinners tax colllectors etc. etc.
He also said he had other sheep. John 10: 3-16 And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice
.>>> So there shall be one flock, one shepherd <<<<
God Bless
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SonCatcher
Guest
If Christ established one Church and one Authority to continue His work, we are bound to submit to that authority. If we do not submit to the authority established by Christ, we are in rebellion. If we are in rebellion to any legitimate authority, we are in rebellion to Christ.
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