If one has faith in Christ why should they join (or return to) the RCC?

[lookaround]

A dead faith is still faith.

Just like a dead body is still a body.

lol
but in both cases they are dead

 

[PRmerger]

lol
but in both cases they are dead

Right. But to say “a dead faith isn’t really faith” is as absurd as saying “a dead body isn’t really a body.”

 

[lookaround]

Can you cite the verse in Exodus where God told Moses to write a book?

Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”
Exodus 34:27

 

[lookaround]

Right. But to say “a dead faith isn’t really faith” is as absurd as saying “a dead body isn’t really a body.”

lol

 

[PRmerger]

I am getting the feeling that this is a Catholic teaching.
What is your churches view on when God told Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, John and any others I might have missed to write?

I thought you were objecting to JimG’s comment that Jesus never commanded anything to be written?

 

[PRmerger]

Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”
Exodus 34:27

Ok. So this is a command for Moses to write the Bible?

Or is it a command for Moses to “write down these words”.

 

[lookaround]

I thought you were objecting to JimG’s comment that Jesus never commanded anything to be written?

Do Catholics believe Jesus spoke to the OT prophets?

 

[lookaround]

Ok. So this is a command for Moses to write the Bible?

Or is it a command for Moses to “write down these words”.

 

[PRmerger]

Do Catholics believe Jesus spoke to the OT prophets?

It was the Godhead. Jesus did not speak until the Incarnation.

Does your pastor believe that God told Matthew to write the Gospel? If so, how does he know that?

 

[ddarko]

I don’t see how that is connected to what I quoted
The member I quoted seem to be saying only Catholics believe in Christ.
Is that the Roman Catholic position?

Hi lookaround,

Technically speaking, if one is not Catholic, one does not know Christ fully. Now before you attack me to the max, let me explain

When you say, believe in Christ, you mean the Christ as you read in the Bible. But as Catholics, we are talking about the “Word” of God. Christ the Logos. In this sense, Christ IS the WORD of God.

Now you might ask, ‘‘what does this change?’’

What you must understand is that Catholics (or true Christians) are not a people of the book. We are a people of a living person, Christ. In Christ, the word of God was fully revealed. Now what was written down in the Bible was simply PART of that revelation and not it’s entirety. The rest of revelation lies in Tradition. Now Tradition in itself is alive. The apostles pondered on what they saw in Christ. They wrote on their experiences and reflections of Jesus and also what they came to know through the inspirations of the Holy Spirit. They passed down Oral Traditions in the same way by preaching, their works and life examples. Now to this day and to eternity, the descendants of the apostles (the bishops and the pope) continue this process. Thus the Tradition which contains most information on Christ is alive and continually expanding in it’s understanding.

The problem as an evangelical (in general) is that you are limited to the book, the Bible. You have accepted and strive to know only a part of Jesus and not Jesus completely. An Evangelical fails to see that the church’s understanding of Jesus is continuously being deepened by the guidance of the Holy Sprit. As a Catholic, one continues to grow in the knowledge of Christ. But as an evangelical, there is no growth.

To add, whenever there is growth in the Evangelicals, it usually goes with personal interpretation of a written word which can have million logically consistent interpretations. This is the price of rejecting Christ. When you reject part of Christ, you end up with a distorted view. Also more importantly, to reject/distort part of the Word i.e. Christ is simply to sin.

So in conclusion, Evangelicals do not know Christ fully because they have decided to become a people of the Book and not of the person Christ, the Word made flesh.

Therefore the best reason why I would say you should become Catholic is to know Christ completely. As a Christian, I cannot think of anything more you could want in life

Hope that helps!

God Bless

 

[lookaround]

It was the Godhead. Jesus did not speak until the Incarnation.

This is kind of important to me.
Do Catholics believe that Jesus spoke to Abraham?

 

[lookaround]

Hi lookaround,

Technically speaking, if one is not Catholic, one does not know Christ fully. Now before you attack me to the max, let me explain

When you say, believe in Christ, you mean the Christ as you read in the Bible. But as Catholics, we are talking about the “Word” of God. Christ the Logos. In this sense, Christ IS the WORD of God.

Now you might ask, ‘‘what does this change?’’

What you must understand is that Catholics (or true Christians) are not a people of the book. We are a people of a living person, Christ. In Christ, the word of God was fully revealed. Now what was written down in the Bible was simply PART of that revelation and not it’s entirety. The rest of revelation lies in Tradition. Now Tradition in itself is alive. The apostles pondered on what they saw in Christ. They wrote on their experiences and reflections of Jesus and also what they came to know through the inspirations of the Holy Spirit. They passed down Oral Traditions in the same way by preaching, their works and life examples. Now to this day and to eternity, the descendants of the apostles (the bishops and the pope) continue this process. Thus the Tradition which contains most information on Christ is alive and continually expanding in it’s understanding.

The problem as an evangelical (in general) is that you are limited to the book, the Bible. You have accepted and strive to know only a part of Jesus and not Jesus completely. An Evangelical fails to see that the church’s understanding of Jesus is continuously being deepened by the guidance of the Holy Sprit. As a Catholic, one continues to grow in the knowledge of Christ. But as an evangelical, there is no growth.

To add, whenever there is growth in the Evangelicals, it usually goes with personal interpretation. This is the price of rejecting Christ. When you reject part of Christ, you end up with a distorted view. Also more importantly, to reject/distort part of the Word i.e. Christ is simply to sin.

So in conclusion, Evangelicals do not know Christ fully because they have decided to become a people of the Book and not of the person Christ, the Word made flesh.

Therefore the best reason why I would say you should become Catholic is to know Christ completely. As a Christian, I cannot think of anything more you could want in life

Hope that helps

God Bless

You don’t think we pray to the scriptures do you?

Do Catholics believe that other Christians have the Holy Spirit? It sounds like you do not.

 

[lookaround]

btw I would like to thank everyone that responded.
So far everyone has been very civil

 

[ddarko]

You don’t think we pray to the scriptures do you?

Do Catholics believe that other Christians have the Holy Spirit? It sounds like you do not.

Putting aside the fact that you clearly don’t seem to have understood my post, lets look at what you say logically and NOT theologically.

If evangelicals do indeed have the Holy Spirit, why this continuous cycle of breaking in to denominations and multiple interpretations of Scripture? I am sure even you don’t agree with some of these denominations. In short, it’s a total mess in terms of what is right and what is wrong.
So out of deep respect to the Holy Sprit, I am going to have to say that Evangelicals do NOT have the Holy Spirit guiding them. To say that it does, really undermines the power of the Holy Spirit.

About the praying to Scripture, you have misunderstood my allegation against Evangelicals. My allegation is simply that you have become a people of the book. You know Christ partially. But in Catholicism you get the complete Christ. That is why you should convert. Nothing else

God Bless

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

this sounds different then the other members post
Can you please clarify?

Let me give this example. Why is it that many people think that Buddhism is compatible with Christianity? It is because Buddhism and Christianity both agree in many things…up to a point. Both Christianity and Buddhism build on the concept that man has an insatiable desire for happiness, a happiness that is characterized by a pursuit of goodness, and yet a happiness which cannot be satisfied by anything and everything in this world, It is at this juncture that they separate. Buddhism thinks there is no hope to satisfying man’s desires, therefore it advocates the negation of all desires. Christianity, on the other hand, maintains that all the desires of man are for the Perfect Good, that is, God; therefore it advocates the pointing of all desires toward that Goal. That’s why we Christians share many beliefs with Buddhists about goodness----so much so that many people thought Buddhism and Christianity may be compatible----, yet at the same time there are some things from them that we cannot accept. Buddhism is as true as it agrees to Christianity, and as false as it disagrees with Christianity.

And so it is with the Catholic Church and the other religions. We believe that they are true as they agree with us doctrinally, and they are as false as they disagree with us doctrinally.

Does your church have a list of denominations that it views more true than others?

No.

EDIT:

With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist. Again, from the Catechism

I Stand Corrected

God bless!

 

[lookaround]

snip

So it is an official teaching of the RCC that non-catholic Christians do not have the Holy Spirit living in them (in the individual believer)?
btw does your name stand for Donnie Darko?

 

[JimG]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimG
Jesus did not command anything to be written.

I am getting the feeling that this is a Catholic teaching.
What is your churches view on when God told Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, John and any others I might have missed to write?

It’s not so much a Catholic teaching as it is a fact of the New Testament writings. You pointed out that in John’s vision in the book of Revelation, he was commanded to write these events. That applies to the book of Revelation.

But during his life on earth, in his teaching to his apostles, Jesus never commands anyone to write anything down.

In the various books of the New Testament, especially the Gospels, none of the authors preface their writings saying that they were commanded by Jesus to write.

And it is worth noting, with respect to the book of Revelation and all of the New Testament, no one today would accept them as God’s word if the Catholic Church had not already accepted them as inspired, vouched for them, included them within the canon of scriptures, and handed them down from the beginning. The bible is a part of Catholic Tradition, arising from within the Church and for the Church, inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 

[ddarko]

So it is an official teaching of the RCC that non-catholic Christians do not have the Holy Spirit living in them (in the individual believer)?

The only Church that is infallibly guided is the Catholic Church.

Now as I asked you before, would you not agree that to say the Evangelicals are guided by the Holy Spirit would certainly be disrespectful and a lie?

Second, What do you say to my allegation that your view on Christ is simply that of the book?

Thirdly, you asked me why you should convert and I gave you the answer. Instead of addressing my arguments, you are derailing the thread here by starting a conversation on the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

If your argument is that, “It’s ok to have an impartial knowledge of Christ because the Holy Spirit will guide me”, then you should stop preaching or evangelizing. Because according to your view, since even non-Christians have a partial knowledge of Christ, the Holy Spirit will guide them regardless. Do you see how absurd your view is?

I am just letting you know before you derail this thread any further. The argument of whether you are guided by the Holy Spirit is a non-issue in this SPECIFIC case. You could claim a lot of things that you do as being guided by the Holy Spirit which I would disagree with

God Bless

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

So it is an official teaching of the RCC that non-catholic Christians do not have the Holy Spirit living in them (in the individual believer)?

“For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.”

2 Corinthians 5:14-15

"Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

Unam Sanctam, Bull of Pope Boniface VIII promulgated November 18, 1302

Suppose a Conqueror lands on a previously unexplored continent, and annexes the whole of it under the banner of His King. Settlers of the Kingdom arrive. The Conqueror then leaves a Governor to take care of the settlers. However, there are natives in that continent. Since these natives lived in the continent before the Conqueror and the settlers arrived, logically these natives automatically become citizens of the kingdom, and thus under the jurisdiction of the Governor.

This is the case also with the Catholic Church. Since Jesus Christ “died for all” humans, all humans, even though they do not know it, can be bestowed with saving grace through means outside the Catholic Church. This was affirmed by the encyclical Sublimus Dei (“We, who, though unworthy, exercise on earth the power of our Lord and seek with all our might to bring those sheep of His flock who are outside into the fold committed to our charge”) which echoes the words of Jesus Christ Himself: "“I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice.” (John 10:16a)

However, there is a caveat here. Since all humans can be bestowed with saving grace outside the usual means of the Catholic Church and thus become the Lord’s sheep, all of the human race must necessarily be under the authority of the Pope.

Why? In continuing the above passage, Jesus Christ also said, “There will be one flock, one shepherd” (John 10:16b), the One Shepherd being Jesus Christ. And yet it was only to St. Peter whom Jesus said: “Feed my lambs…Tend my sheep…Feed my sheep.” (John 21:15, 16, 17). Therefore, Jesus left to St. Peter’s, and his successors’, care all of His sheep, in the fold (formally Catholic) or not.

In other words, each and every one human creature in the whole world is a Catholic in one sense or another.

 

[lookaround]

The only Church that is infallibly guided is the Catholic Church.

I understand your position on this matter. I would like to know if your church teaches that only members of the RCC have the Holy Spirit living in them (Catholics believe this right?)

Now as I asked you before, would you not agree that to say the Evangelicals are guided by the Holy Spirit would certainly be disrespectful and a lie?

I believe it would be disrespectful and a lie to say other Christians do not have the Holy Spirit. To be honest, I don’t see how one can be a Christian without having the Holy Spirit.

Second, What do you say to my allegation that your view on Christ is simply that of the book?

I disagree
Christ is the Word of God