If one has faith in Christ why should they join (or return to) the RCC?

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lookaround said:
I (or anyone else) can ask, “where is that in the Bible?” and the answer could be, “it is not”. Does that mean myself or someone else will then accept the position… maybe
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And what is it, then, that you use as the sure norm for your faith, if it’s not the Scriptures?
 
PRmerger said:
Right. Because the authority of the Catholic Church has discerned that it is not inspired.

There is nothing that one could read in it that would tell you it’s inspired or not.

One must go by the Sacred Tradition, that is, the witness of the Apostles and their successors, to tell you if its writings were coherent with the Tradition or not.
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From what I remember the majority of Thomas’s Gospel is quotes from Jesus (presumably). The problem is that they were found in Nag Hammad with other gnostic text.
 
PRmerger said:
And what is it, then, that you use as the sure norm for your faith, if it’s not the Scriptures?
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For me?
First- The scriptures (since I believe them to be true and from God)
Second- Revelation (but this must be tested by scripture, since there are false prophets)
Third- Reason (in as much as it is reasonable)
 
lookaround said:
From what I remember the majority of Thomas’s Gospel is quotes from Jesus (presumably). The problem is that they were found in Nag Hammad with other gnostic text.
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Again, how do you know that the gnostic texts weren’t inspired?
 
PRmerger said:
You have just given a perfect example of what a Muslim could do with his Koran. Read it and determine it’s inspired.

Except, clearly, it is not the Word of God. By reading a “sacred” book one cannot determine by one’s own authority whether it is of God or not.

That paradigm gives rise to the Mormons, JWs, Muslims, etc being able to profess that their “sacred” writings are inspired.

This is very dangerous ground on which you tread, lookaround.
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You are correct, this is one of the reasons we have different religions in the world.
 
lookaround said:
For me?
First- The scriptures (since I believe them to be true and from God)
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And if someone reads the Koran and determines them to be true and from God, are you giving legitimacy to his paradigm?
Second- Revelation (but this must be tested by scripture, since there are false prophets)
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Your definition above begs the question. It cannot be the “norm for your faith” if it has to be tested by Scripture. Then, by defintion, Scripture is your “norm for your faith.”
Third- Reason (in as much as it is reasonable)
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See above. It cannot be your “norm for faith” if it’s…er…third and must be tested by Scripture.
 
If one has faith in Christ why should they join (or return to) the RCC?

I can’t speak for them, only of my own exp. Why? I am not an apologist or even all that smart. I constantly have to tell the Lord that I am not eloquent, but I’ll speak the truth to you brother.

I don’t know about you, but I have always had sense for something greater then I, guiding me, protecting me, watching over me…loving me. Something thats a part of me, yet not. Much greater then I, yet more humble. Its how I knew without ever having to be told that stealing is wrong, that murder is wrong etc etc. That love and kindness are devine, my sense of right vs wrong.You get what I am saying.

That same Spirit guided me to the Church. I don’t need to have every little question answered or win fights with other Christians, I just know. And don’t get me wrong brother, I resisted for a long time His hand pointing to the Catholic church, but I am home now and I alway knew on some level that I was running from the truth due to my own pride.

Maybe that too simple for you, I don’t know, but it is that simple.

If you love God, you will do, obey & cherish ALL that he taught and not pick and choose what fits you.

Please do not take my word for it. I ask that you pray on it with an open heart and let go of what you think is right and let Him in. Its no easy task my friend, believe me I know. Ask God to lead you. Ask God what He wants and put yourself aside.

If you have faith in Christ that is a blessing,but so much more awaits you. I have a feeling that no one on a forum is going to convince you of anything, but I have faith that the Lord will finish the good work he has started in you. Pray on it brother, pray hard.

Good Luck (I hope you find what your looking for)

And may God bless you bro.

Frank
 
PRmerger said:
And if someone reads the Koran and determines them to be true and from God, are you giving legitimacy to his paradigm?
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I don’t think I understand?
I don’t believe the Koran to be true. If I did I would be a Muslim…
PRmerger said:
Your definition above begs the question. It cannot be the “norm for your faith” if it has to be tested by Scripture. Then, by defintion, Scripture is your “norm for your faith.”

See above. It cannot be your “norm for faith” if it’s…er…third and must be tested by Scripture.
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Because I believe the scriptures are from God, that they are God’s revaluation to man, and God does not lie; because of this anything which one clams to be from God would not disagree with the scriptures (what is already true).
 
PRmerger said:
And who determined whether the gnostic Gospels were to be divorced from Christianity or to be wedded to the Tradition?
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The gnostic gospel and the Gnostic Jesus are a very different Jesus then the Christian Jesus (the Jesus I know).
 
franksv said:
If one has faith in Christ why should they join (or return to) the RCC?

I can’t speak for them, only of my own exp. Why? I am not an apologist or even all that smart. I constantly have to tell the Lord that I am not eloquent, but I’ll speak the truth to you brother.

I don’t know about you, but I have always had sense for something greater then I, guiding me, protecting me, watching over me…loving me. Something thats a part of me, yet not. Much greater then I, yet more humble. Its how I knew without ever having to be told that stealing is wrong, that murder is wrong etc etc. That love and kindness are devine, my sense of right vs wrong.You get what I am saying.

That same Spirit guided me to the Church. I don’t need to have every little question answered or win fights with other Christians, I just know. And don’t get me wrong brother, I resisted for a long time His hand pointing to the Catholic church, but I am home now and I alway knew on some level that I was running from the truth due to my own pride.

Maybe that too simple for you, I don’t know, but it is that simple.

If you love God, you will do, obey & cherish ALL that he taught and not pick and choose what fits you.

Please do not take my word for it. I ask that you pray on it with an open heart and let go of what you think is right and let Him in. Its no easy task my friend, believe me I know. Ask God to lead you. Ask God what He wants and put yourself aside.

If you have faith in Christ that is a blessing,but so much more awaits you. I have a feeling that no one on a forum is going to convince you of anything, but I have faith that the Lord will finish the good work he has started in you. Pray on it brother, pray hard.

Good Luck (I hope you find what your looking for)

And may God bless you bro.

Frank
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thank you 🙂
 
lookaround said:
I don’t think I understand?
I don’t believe the Koran to be true. If I did I would be a Muslim…
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But you wouldn’t try to evangelize a Muslim into the truth of Christianity, because he has read his Koran and come to an understanding that it is God’s Word, right? That is, he used the same paradigm you did and came to his discernment–he believes Jesus is a prophet and you’re good with that?
Because I believe the scriptures are from God, that they are God’s revaluation to man, and God does not lie; because of this anything which one clams to be from God would not disagree with the scriptures (what is already true).
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Again, you have no way to argue with a Muslim who believes that his scriptures are from God. :eek:
 
lookaround said:
The gnostic gospel and the Gnostic Jesus are a very different Jesus then the Christian Jesus (the Jesus I know).
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Fair enough.

But the only reason you know the “Christian” Jesus is because the Catholic Church discerned this for you!
 
lookaround said:
I don’t believe so. (I am presuming that “legit” means true)
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So then we are back to this: someone reads a sacred text, determines for himself that it is inspired…you cannot tell him that it is not true, for he has used the exact same paradigm which you have used.

You cannot deny someone the right to determine for himself that *any *text is inspired, if you use that paradigm yourself.
 
PRmerger said:
Again, you have no way to argue with a Muslim who believes that his scriptures are from God. :eek:
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All we can ever do is show them the gospel. It is up to God to open their eye.

TBH I doubt a Muslim would change his faith just because you told him that the RCC does not recognize the Koran as inspired.
 
PRmerger said:
Fair enough.

But the only reason you know the “Christian” Jesus is because the Catholic Church discerned this for you!
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I don’t understand your reasoning :confused:
If the Christian Jesus is the True Jesus, and if Jesus is True (as I recognize Him to be) then He can make Himself known (as I believe He does).
 
PRmerger said:
So then we are back to this: someone reads a sacred text, determines for himself that it is inspired…you cannot tell him that it is not true, for he has used the exact same paradigm which you have used.

You cannot deny someone the right to determine for himself that *any *text is inspired, if you use that paradigm yourself.
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It is up to God to open ones eyes.

With that said, there are questions that you can ask the other person that might show them that logically/realistically their faith is untrue.
 
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