If push comes to shove I choose conscience over Church teaching

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po18guy said:
Ponder the fact that the Church is indefectible. Christ’s promise. The Church is Christ’s mystical Body. In all conflicts involving faith and morals, we are safer to assume that we simply misunderstand doctrine, or are allowing our egos to influence us. The Church has been tested time and again over 2,000 years. It is the oldest organization on earth. We cannot err if we willingly assent to the deposit of faith, the content of which has been added to as understanding improves, but never changed.
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Here’s a higher standard answer. Thank you.
I’m glad you brought up the ego point. This is something I must continually be wary of and question myself. I will make mistakes and yes a decision I make will come from ego sometimes instead of from the spirit within. I do sin.
Of course I respect the Church. But do I have to obey every rule to the letter of the law every time? I don’t think so.
 
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guanophore said:
Well, @goodcatholic, you have uncovered quite a nesting site of fundamentalists. Most of the posts in this thread did not address your OP. Why didn’t you post it in moral theology or catholic living?
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Hi @guanophore ,just wondering what your definition
of a fundamentalist is in reference to posters here ?
 
That’s ok 🙂 I was called a fundamentalist not long ago
in real life and it baffled me because I was just living and practicing my faith as I always have .
I’m confused as to why a person is called a fundamentalist for just being a normal catholic.
 
Not at all. CAF is for discussion and feedback. If you’re not happy with the answers and discussion, a blog would be better.
 
I live out the Ten Commandments as best as I can GC,
it’s great to have a real understanding of them,and it helps to read up before confession :+1:t4:
 
Cruciferi said:
If you’re not happy with the answers and discussion
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I get a bit tired of defending my approach here. I have responded to questions but many of them are shallow, dismissive and dogmatic. Many of you don’t like to be challenged. “Closed case. Obey the Church” How can anyone discuss anything when dealing with such an attitude?
 
For example I seriously doubt whether some actually events took place in the Book of Exodus. The magic in the plagues for example. There’s a lot of metaphor in the Bible. Like the Book of Jonah is a fascinating one.
 
jcrichton said:
So the lady goes out thinking that she’s the “it” or whatever goes for “it” today; only her “friends” pretend that she’s the coolest while everyone else are horrified at her grungy or whatever look she’s sporting… her nemesis makes sure that everyone in the building knows how awful she looks and she cuts her day short because she’s having a conniption–but it was good that her husband and her “friends” lied to her…
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I don’t know what you are basing this on, but it certainly is not on the scenario I presented. The husband said his wife’s haircut didn’t look “too bad”. Any normal woman would know that that means it looks horrible but that her husband is sparing her feelings.
 
jcrichton said:
But when opinion differs from the Faith–the Faithful must chime in with a response; otherwise you may believe that your opinion reigns supreme.

Maran atha!

Angel
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That is quite an assumption. Actually, I am always open and willing to listen to the opinions of other people. That is how we learn. I’m also more than willing to acknowledge that each person is entitled to their own opinion and should live according to such. I don’t think people should live according to my opinions, and I don’t think I should live according to theirs.
 
goodcatholic said:
But I would advise you to keep your mind open.
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Many things can be justified by using the “open mind” excuse. I have an open mind insofar as it relates to things not particularly governed by Church teaching. But I am a Catholic, and as such I prescribe to ALL the teachings of the Church, even the ones I don’t fully understand.
 
Can I ask you a question ? (Besides that one 😄)

What do you think a child would say if you asked them “is it ok to lie to somebody who wants to know where your little brother is, so this person can harm him?

What do you think 99.99 percent or most catholic educated children would say?
 
B cause I’m like you in the sense that I try to adhere as best as possible to the churches teachings, even the ones I dont understand
 
Mtdobbs said:
Can I ask you a question ? (Besides that one 😄)
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lol
Mtdobbs said:
What do you think a child would say if you asked them “is it ok to lie to somebody who wants to know where your little brother is, so this person can harm him?

What do you think 99.99 percent or most catholic educated children would say?
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There is provision for that within Catholic teaching. It wouldn’t necessarily be considered a lie. And there is also a principle of whether or not someone has the right to certain information. Conscience in this case provides the obvious answer and it is backed up by the Church.

The problem comes when people use conscience to justify things like sex before marriage, abortion etc.
 
Ahh I was hoping somebody would bring that up . A person who wants to hurt my son or your brother or sister, in my opinion, is not “due” the truth. He is not owed the truth. So I don’t see it as the same as telling a lie.

The other argument is that the church allows us to beat somebody to a pulp to save a person, but if you asked a child what would be better… to mislead the person or to injure/ kill them , a child would say to mislead
 
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Yeah, I’m sure there are people who would say that that is also a lie but it seems to stand up within the context of Church teaching as a whole.

Truth is generally in service of justice, therefore we don’t lie under oath or deceive in order to serve ourselves or to escape just punishment.

However undercover police, for example, are in the service of justice so there is a bit more nuance there I think. And as far as I know the Church allows for that. I don’t think Catholic police officers are barred from undercover work by the Church
 
As Catholics , we have to believe in objective truth. That truth is always good and never changes or else it becomes relativism. I get this. I just know that the lines are so grey sometimes that it makes these objective truths different for each persons conscience.
 
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