If push comes to shove I choose conscience over Church teaching

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AdamP88 said:
If you go with your conscience over church teaching then you are simply choosing to ignore what the Church teaches as truth. Conscience is only valuable if it serves to guide us to the truth. It can also lead us into error if we believe the lie that our capacity to reason is above God’s commandments.
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This is true. If we think there is a conflict, then somewhere we have made an error in interpreting Church teaching and should seek counsel.
 
lilypadrees said:
If you can’t handle the truth from me and from other posters
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Firstly that is your delusion. That you own the truth. Secondly, I don’t want to communicate with dogmatic posters who think that everything can be simplified down to 1 plus 1 equals two.
 
I had this argument on CAF many years ago and was told that there are no moral gray areas. This, I think, would be news to numerous philosophers and theologians over the years.
 
That’s why we go and ask people who are holier and wiser than us. And read good books by devout men, and listen to shows by devout people, and try to form our conscience the right way. And when in doubt, ask.

Because we can’t trust our private interpretations to always be correct. Especially if one has not been a Christian for long or has been lapsed for a long time. Pray to the Holy Spirit for wisdom, because it will probably take a long time to correct a malformed conscience.

Luckily we have the Sacrament of Reconciliation to help us on this journey.
 
goodcatholic said:
Like the post that suggests I’m an attention-seeking old man who needs to have an affair with a widow?
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He didn’t suggest that you have an affair. He suggested you find a girlfriend, presumably to have something in your life aside from CAF.
 
Limoncello4021 said:
It often appears that you just want people to agree with you,
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I want more than dogmatic, dismissive responses. I prefer well-thought out responses that indicate that you have thought about the matter more deeply. That you may even see some good in the opinion that differs to yours.
 
But is that not a super stretch?

Today, while riding a local bus, I came close to fighting someone… perhaps to the death.

Over a small amount of money a guy was intent on causing harm to a female driver, in her late 50s to 60s. I may have had to defend both her life and mine from the violent thug–would my actions be found as sin by God?

Yet, I cannot claim that “my conscience” trumps Church’s Teaching–do you understand that?

If had had to kill the man the courts could have thrown the book at me; would God?

But I cannot look for situations to circumvent Doctrine just so that my ego be stroked.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
goodcatholic said:
I know it is important to respect the teachings of the Church. Obey everything in the catechism. If we approach it as “it is there to help us, not to control us”, then I find that much more healthy.
If I value my conscience highly, does that make me more Protestant than Catholic?
I’ll try to give an example. “Don’t lie.” To live in a secular world, to survive in a secular world, you realise that bending “the truth” is necessary. Now some will argue that have to be truthful, you have to follow the letter of the law. In that case, if you are at someone’s deathbed, you might say “you look terrible today”. Is that helpful? No its not. I just think being 'totally honest" is way too idealistic. The important thing is self-awareness. “ok I’m bending the truth here because…”
Know your intentions. If your intentions are to manipulate or gain money or nasty, then of course you shouldn’t lie. If your intentions are to create a positive vibe or save someone pain or even to humour them, I see no reason, in telling a “white” lie.
But it is not just lying. I think we need to dig deep often. Not just “oh what is the rule here? forgive …ok forgive.” that is kind of superficial in my way of thinking. We need to pray on the spot for discernment. No doubt someone will raise the notion of “informed conscience”. yes I agree.
I respect Church teachings but I don’t see a need to follow them to the letter of the law all the time. The spirit of the law is more important too.
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The conscience is incorrect if it is in conflict with the infallible dogmatic teachings of the Church. The conscience must be properly formed. Catechism:
1784 The education of the conscience is a lifelong task. From the earliest years, it awakens the child to the knowledge and practice of the interior law recognized by conscience. Prudent education teaches virtue; it prevents or cures fear, selfishness and pride, resentment arising from guilt, and feelings of complacency, born of human weakness and faults. The education of the conscience guarantees freedom and engenders peace of heart.
1786 Faced with a moral choice, conscience can make either a right judgment in accordance with reason and the divine law or, on the contrary, an erroneous judgment that departs from them.
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ShowersofRoses said:
Because we can’t trust our private interpretations to always be correct.
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Of course. I’m the first one to second guess myself. This is what people immediately jump to conclusions. “oh he’s only listening to conscience. what a sinner.”
I’m not ignoring Church teaching. I’m working with it. Over 90%, I don’t need my conscience for anyway. There are times when answers are not so obvious. Discernment is required.
 
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