If push comes to shove I choose conscience over Church teaching

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ShowersofRoses said:
He seemed misinformed if he thinks the Church teaches that we should say every blunt thought that comes into our minds. No one should tell a dying person “You look terrible!”,
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I may be thick… but I do not read him as innocuous as ‘little white lie.’ I believe he is presenting a brand of ‘feel-good’ theology where the laity can dictate “true” Christian faith (truth, doctrine, Inspiration of the Holy Spirit…); just read trough his follow up comments!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
goodcatholic said:
Why you would want to defend an abusive post is beyond me.
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I generally don’t like calumny. That’s why. I’m not defending BC’s comments – just clarifying them. They were sufficiently offensive on their own that it’s unnecessary to embellish.
 
jcrichton said:
I believe he is presenting a brand of ‘feel-good’ theology where the laity can dictate “true” Christian faith
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I could tell you pigeon-holed me from the start. You don’t know me. I possibly have done broader reading than you. But that is not the point. My values are actually quite conservative. There are objective truths. Non-negotiables. I’m not talking about those.
 
What I intend to point out is that Jesus’ Teachings do not change according to circumstances. Yes is always yes, specially if it comes to Doctrine. I cannot circumvent God’s Command because it suits me.

When I sin I must acknowledge my sin as sin.

When I am not sure about the Church’s Teaching I must acquiesce to her Delegated Authority rather then to my personal preferences.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
So someone gets to the pearly gates and they are slammed shut in his face because, to spare his wife’s feelings, he told his wife her haircut wasn’t “that bad?”. The haircut was horrible. Terrible. But he lied to spare her feeling and he is told he sinned? I don’t think so. Not buying it. I guess it is one reason I am agnostic. Her hair is already cut. She can’t do anything aobut it. He comforted her and made her feel better. He took care of her when she needed taking care of. I don’t think God cares about it, other than to be pleased that he stepped up and looked after his wife.
 
I know you know better than this.
A. A lie about a haircut is a venial sin. Not mortal. Gates won’t be shut. Strawman.
Please, if you’re going to complain about Catholic teachings, complain about what they truly are, don’t make up something, call it a Catholic teaching, and complain how ‘unfair’ it is.
 
You don’t need to be agnostic to think this way. There are plenty of Catholic theologians and saints who’ve argued along similar lines. Probably best not to despair of the Church, then, over something like this.
 
stpurl said:
know you know better than this.
A. A lie about a haircut is a venial sin. Not mortal. Gates won’t be shut. Strawman.
Please, if you’re going to complain about Catholic teachings, complain about what they truly are, don’t make up something, call it a Catholic teaching, and complain how ‘unfair’ it is.
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Well I am an agnostic who was raised Catholic. I don’t believe in any of it, in full disclosure. I was just reading the responses here and thought I would weigh in. Venial or mortal…either way, I don’t buy it. I think following one’s conscience is the way to go, since God gave us each one. The people here who see these things completely black or white, I don’t agree with. They are entitled to their own opinion, of course, as we all are. That is all I was expressing (my opinion.)
 
People’s varying definitions of lying always seem to cause unnecessary arguments on CAF. Here’s a good Catholic Answers Magazine article explaining the nuance and development of the theology:

Is Lying Ever Right?

The answer is certainly not: “Lying is always wrong regardless of your intentions” (that’s the end of surprise parties for Catholics!). The catechism says it depends precisely on your intention (2482: “A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving.”)

I much prefer “To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead into error someone who has the right to know the truth” (CCC 2483 in an earlier edition; my emphasis), as it’s the best way I’ve seen to handle all the variables that impact the question.

From the cited article:

Over the past hundred years there has been a growing movement among moral theologians to tweak the definition of lying as follows: “To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead into error someone who has the right to know the truth.” This very sentence, in fact, is taken from the initial edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 2483, 1994 edition).

When the Catechism was first published in French in 1994, and translated into other languages from the French, it contained the sentence quoted above, and so there was some speculation that the Holy See had finally decided to throw at least a modicum of magisterial weight behind this solution to our dilemma [murderers at your door looking for their victim]. This very precise definition, with its inclusion of the right to know, enables us to handle lying and falsehood in a manner very similar to the way we handle murder and killing. Through a person’s intention to use particular knowledge for an evil end, that person would presumably forfeit his right to know. Thus it would be morally acceptable to speak a falsehood to the murderous thugs. But we would no more call this “lying” than we would call an act of self-defense “murder.”

Alas, the matter is not so easily resolved. For, as it turns out, when the official Latin text of the Catechism was released in 1997 after a process of revision, the right to know was dropped. The operative sentence now reads simply: “To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead someone into error.”
 
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Examine your conscience, @goodcatholic. And then, be totally honest with yourself. Remember, you’re going to be standing before God one day.
 
Seriously!! I did not expect such an avalanche!!

I think I need the fainting couch…😵
 
QwertyGirl said:
The people here who see these things completely black or white, I don’t agree with.
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I see the need for some objective truths. But some posters want to turn everything we discuss into a non-negotiable. It’s too dogmatic and dismissive.
 
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