If starting today, all one billion Catholics actually became “practicing” Catholics, how would the World change?

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Jimmy B,
Magisterium may sound like a “big word” that not everyone needs to know, but the concept is important for all Catholics of all education levels. The Magisterium is the teaching office of the Church. Without it (it is a gift given to us by Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit), we could not have certainty about the truths of faith we believe. Even the most simple and humble Catholic knows that the bishops in union with the pope have authority to teach and interpret the deposit of faith.

Every faithful Catholic lives in accord with the teachings of Christ as defined by the Magisterium, and thus every faithful Catholic lives in accordance with Magisterial teachings. “Fancy words” aside, that’s the truth.
 
Agnostic,
If all people lived like you that might help make the world a better place, but you could say that about many people. Everyone acting the same and thinking the same might bring peace and stability to the world, but what about the human heart?

Ultimately, one who is uncertain about God’s existence will not have a better life either here or in heaven. Knowing and loving Christ in this life gives a person hope and helps a person to love others more perfectly. Additionally, it is difficult to have a relationship with God if one is not sure whether or not He is real. If heaven is all about continuing and deepening one’s relationship with God, then where does that leave agnostics?

In other words, the world might be great externally (for a while) if everyone lived like you, but people would not be better off spiritually. Jesus’ kingdom is not of this world. It’s not enough to “just be a good person” toward others. One must love God, our loving Creator and Savior, in order to find fulfillment in this life and the next. Jesus tells us we must do both, love God and our neighbor. Furthermore, if everyone in the world became like you and lost their faith (and only practiced external acts) those external acts would soon be in danger of disappearing because there would be no underlying philosophical basis for them. The only reason you know that you are being a good person is because of Judeo-Christian ethics embedded in your mind, whether you know it or not. You are drawn to being good because good Christians first showed the world the value of doing good simply for the sake of God and others (and not for an earthy reward).

BTW: I’m not sure whether or not you are receiving Eucharist at Mass (you said you go every week). If not, good for you. If you are receiving communion, you should stop if you do not believe in God or believe that Christ is really present under the form of bread and wine. Otherwise, you are endangering your own soul (1 Cor 11) and profaning our Sacrament. And if you don’t care about your own soul, please respect our beliefs about the sacredness of the Eucharist.
 
I work in my parrish office and we have over 700 registered members and Mass attendance is below 350. Thats alot of not practicing if you ask me.
Very sad and if all were to be practicing we would be stronger. I believe the whole world would benefit from the graces.
 
MHalsey said:
Righteousone…

Why would you accuse all Evangelicals of believing the pope to be the anti-Christ? That’s certainly not what Billy Graham believes. I know several Evangelicals who do not believe that.

Also, why do you insist that all people who were baptized Catholic now practice their faith when that is simply not true. I know many people who were baptized in the Church who do not attend Mass or believe in the teachings of the Church on various issues.

But Catholics should not feel threatened by this. All religions have members “in name only.” The fact that wheat and chaff co-exist within the visible bounds of the Church does not invalidate the teachings of Christ, which have been faithfully passed on to us in the Church. Catholicism will always remain true, even if a certain percentage of people who claim to be members do not practice their faith or obey the precepts of the Church. Just as there was a traitor (Judas) among Christ’s own Apostles, so there are folks who claim to be part of the Church who do not believe or practice what she teaches.

It would be nice if all Catholics who have fallen away or lapsed would return to the faith.

I hope we all agree that all Catholics should practice their faith, seeking holiness, obeying the Church, and working for justice.

BTW: Why is your online name righteousone? Is that a joke or do you believe that you are righteous?

Sometimes people pose as Catholics on sites like this and then make outrageous claims to make the Church look bad. I hope you are not one of them.

When you assert, for instance, that Catholics must believe in private revelations like the incorruptibles, you are simply mistaken (see the following quote from the Catechism, paragraph 67).

"Throughout the ages, there have been so-called ‘private’ revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

“Christian faith cannot accept ‘revelations’ that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such ‘revelations’.”
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Incorruptible saints is not a private revelation…Fatima, Lourdes etc. are private revelations…Furthermore, I am a defender of my Catholic faith, I had a locution from God in 2006, I’d say I’m pretty Righteous…lots of hostility on these threads I seem to stir up. Some people either don’t know their faith, or choose to ignore it.
It is what it is.
 
Righteousone,
The Vatican’s own website describes the difference between private and public revelation, and it shows that you are mistaken. Do you accept the authority of the Vatican or do you know more than the Magisterium?

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

Incorruptibles, as wonderful as they are, are not part of the deposit of faith. Miracles like the incorruptibles may be approved or considered worthy of belief by the Church, but no Catholic is required to believe in them. Catholics are required to believe in public revelation which is completed in Christ and comes to an end with the death of the last apostle.

You keep talking about how Catholic you are, but remember Catholic Christians are supposed to be humble and accept instruction. You do not seem able to admit that you could be wrong about anything, even when it is clearly proven.

If Catholics had to believe in the incorruptibles there would be dogma/doctrine attached to them. Please cite which Church Council, document, or papal statement leads you to believe that Catholics *must *believe in particular miracles associated with the bodies of saints?

You can’t find one.

The article from the Vatican that I cited above demonstrates that the opposite is true. Remember, public revelation (the kind all Catholic have to believe) came to a close with the end of the apostolic age.

Maybe the terminology is confusing you because some of these miracles seem intended for the general public, but “private revelation” is a technical term which refers to any miracle or message that occurs after the time of the New Testament.
 
davidmammola said:
Righteousone,
The Vatican’s own website describes the difference between private and public revelation, and it shows that you are mistaken. Do you accept the authority of the Vatican or do you know more than the Magisterium?

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

Incorruptibles, as wonderful as they are, are not part of the deposit of faith. Miracles like the incorruptibles may be approved or considered worthy of belief by the Church, but no Catholic is required to believe in them. Catholics are required to believe in public revelation which is completed in Christ and comes to an end with the death of the last apostle.

You keep talking about how Catholic you are, but remember Catholic Christians are supposed to be humble and accept instruction. You do not seem able to admit that you could be wrong about anything, even when it is clearly proven.

If Catholics had to believe in the incorruptibles there would be dogma/doctrine attached to them. Please cite which Church Council, document, or papal statement leads you to believe that Catholics *must *believe in particular miracles associated with the bodies of saints?

You can’t find one.

The article from the Vatican that I cited above demonstrates that the opposite is true. Remember, public revelation (the kind all Catholic have to believe) came to a close with the end of the apostolic age.

Maybe the terminology is confusing you because some of these miracles seem intended for the general public, but “private revelation” is a technical term which refers to any miracle or message that occurs after the time of the New Testament.
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Mr. Davidmammola,
I by far are not confused. I will now teach you why it is important to believe in such revelations. Each and every Catholic is obliged to do and believe certain things, in order to remain in union with Jesus Christ and the church and in the state of grace. Every Catholic must first of all accept all that is contained in the Deposit of Faith, for as the Catholic profession of faith known as the Creed of St. Athanius explains:
“Whoever wishes to be saved, must above all keep the Catholic faith; for unless a person keeps this faith whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity”.
what then, does it mean to hold fast to the Catholic faith, “whole and inviolate”? What is of the faith? St. Thomas Aquinas tells us that the faith is all that God has revealed: That is, everything God God has revealed in both Sacred Scripture and Catholic Tradition. That is the Catholic faith, and to be saved we are bound to believe it.
For example; Fatima, a revelation given to the world is a prophecy. The church has tested it and found it to be good, and we are therefore bound to hold fast to it.
Once the church has examined it and found it worthy of belief, Natural Law and Sacred Scripture tells us what we must do.
St. Paul writes in 1 Thess. 5:19-21: “DO NOT EXTINGUISH THE SPIRIT. DO NOT DESPISE PROPHECIES. BUT TEST ALL THINGS AND HOLD FAST TO THAT WHICH IS GOOD”.
 
Righteousone said:
Mr. Davidmammola,
I by far are not confused. I will now teach you why it is important to believe in such revelations. Each and every Catholic is obliged to do and believe certain things, in order to remain in union with Jesus Christ and the church and in the state of grace. Every Catholic must first of all accept all that is contained in the Deposit of Faith, for as the Catholic profession of faith known as the Creed of St. Athanius explains:
“Whoever wishes to be saved, must above all keep the Catholic faith; for unless a person keeps this faith whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity”.
what then, does it mean to hold fast to the Catholic faith, “whole and inviolate”? What is of the faith? St. Thomas Aquinas tells us that the faith is all that God has revealed: That is, everything God God has revealed in both Sacred Scripture and Catholic Tradition. That is the Catholic faith, and to be saved we are bound to believe it.
For example; Fatima, a revelation given to the world is a prophecy. The church has tested it and found it to be good, and we are therefore bound to hold fast to it.
Once the church has examined it and found it worthy of belief, Natural Law and Sacred Scripture tells us what we must do.
St. Paul writes in 1 Thess. 5:19-21: “DO NOT EXTINGUISH THE SPIRIT. DO NOT DESPISE PROPHECIES. BUT TEST ALL THINGS AND HOLD FAST TO THAT WHICH IS GOOD”.
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As far as I know, the only creeds that we as Catholics are required to accept to are the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed. I have never heard of the Creed of St. Athanius. Show me where is any Catholic Doctrine we are required to accept this creed.

As for what we are required to believe, this from the link davidmammmola provided:
The teaching of the Church distinguishes between “public Revelation” and “private revelations”. The two realities differ not only in degree but also in essence. The term “public Revelation” refers to the revealing action of God directed to humanity as a whole and which finds its literary expression in the two parts of the Bible: the Old and New Testaments. It is called “Revelation” because in it God gradually made himself known to men, to the point of becoming man himself, in order to draw to himself the whole world and unite it with himself through his Incarnate Son, Jesus Christ. It is not a matter therefore of intellectual communication, but of a life-giving process in which God comes to meet man. At the same time this process naturally produces data pertaining to the mind and to the understanding of the mystery of God. It is a process which involves man in his entirety and therefore reason as well, but not reason alone. Because God is one, history, which he shares with humanity, is also one. It is valid for all time, and it has reached its fulfillment in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. **In Christ, God has said everything, that is, he has revealed himself completely, and therefore Revelation came to an end with the fulfillment of the mystery of Christ as enunciated in the New Testament. **To explain the finality and completeness of Revelation, the Catechism of the Catholic Church quotes a text of Saint John of the Cross: “In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word—and he has no more to say… because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. **Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty” **(No. 65; Saint John of the Cross,The Ascent of Mount Carmel, II, 22).
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It seems to me this is pretty explicit in that we are not required to believe anything that was not revealed prior to the death of the last apostle. This includes the miracle of incorruptibility.
 
blossom02 said:
I work in my parrish office and we have over 700 registered members and Mass attendance is below 350. Thats alot of not practicing if you ask me.
Very sad and if all were to be practicing we would be stronger. I believe the whole world would benefit from the graces.
Click to expand...
That is untrue. Most of the people do not use the envelopes that are registered to the church in their names so you know what the count is. That is in fact the way you know how many attend Mass. I myself don’t use parish envelopes and attend Mass every sunday. Because I am not on the “books” as given an envelope, you cannot count me at that Mass that day. So there is really no way to actually p(name removed by moderator)oint the number of people there. I too use to work at my parish office.
 
MHalsey said:
As far as I know, the only creeds that we as Catholics are required to accept to are the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed. I have never heard of the Creed of St. Athanius. Show me where is any Catholic Doctrine we are required to accept this creed.

As for what we are required to believe, this from the link davidmammmola provided:

It seems to me this is pretty explicit in that we are not required to believe anything that was not revealed prior to the death of the last apostle. This includes the miracle of incorruptibility.
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Well, it is from your Catholic faith Halsey, that perhaps you should know this particular creed. Common sense if you are a Catholic. And you can go and believe anything you want. My beliefs lie with Jesus Christ, the Early church Fathers and St. Paul on this one…why question it? (You sound just like a Protestant).
 
MHalsey said:
As far as I know, the only creeds that we as Catholics are required to accept to are the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed. I have never heard of the Creed of St. Athanius. Show me where is any Catholic Doctrine we are required to accept this creed.

As for what we are required to believe, this from the link davidmammmola provided:

It seems to me this is pretty explicit in that we are not required to believe anything that was not revealed prior to the death of the last apostle. This includes the miracle of incorruptibility.
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As a Catholic, you should know this information.
It was called the Quicumque Vult.
The Creed is "an official statement of Christian doctrine principally in regard to the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation, composed during the life of St. Anthanaius, 373.
It has a place in the Latin Liturgy, being said at Prime on the feast of the Holy Trinity.
Before the office reforms that came into force in 1956, it was said more frequently.
 
Righteousone said:
Mr. Davidmammola,
I by far are not confused. I will now teach you why it is important to believe in such revelations. Each and every Catholic is obliged to do and believe certain things, in order to remain in union with Jesus Christ and the church and in the state of grace. Every Catholic must first of all accept all that is contained in the Deposit of Faith, for as the Catholic profession of faith known as the Creed of St. Athanius explains:
“Whoever wishes to be saved, must above all keep the Catholic faith; for unless a person keeps this faith whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity”.
what then, does it mean to hold fast to the Catholic faith, “whole and inviolate”? What is of the faith? St. Thomas Aquinas tells us that the faith is all that God has revealed: That is, everything God God has revealed in both Sacred Scripture and Catholic Tradition. That is the Catholic faith, and to be saved we are bound to believe it.
For example; Fatima, a revelation given to the world is a prophecy. The church has tested it and found it to be good, and we are therefore bound to hold fast to it.
Once the church has examined it and found it worthy of belief, Natural Law and Sacred Scripture tells us what we must do.
St. Paul writes in 1 Thess. 5:19-21: “DO NOT EXTINGUISH THE SPIRIT. DO NOT DESPISE PROPHECIES. BUT TEST ALL THINGS AND HOLD FAST TO THAT WHICH IS GOOD”.
Click to expand...
From the Catechism:
67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.
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It is not necessary to believe any private revelation, even that which is approved by the Church, in order to be a Catholic.
 
lak611 said:
From the Catechism:It is not necessary to believe any private revelation, even that which is approved by the Church, in order to be a Catholic.
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I never said “in order to be Catholic”, (here we go again distorting the words…) I said to be in union with Christ.
Do you have your glasses on?🤓
 
Righteousone said:
I never said “in order to be Catholic”, (here we go again distorting the words…) I said to be in union with Christ.
Do you have your glasses on?🤓
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To be Catholic is to be in union with Christ. Or are you now saying that Catholics are not Christians? :confused:
 
lak611 said:
To be Catholic is to be in union with Christ. Or are you now saying that Catholics are not Christians? :confused:
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I am saying that for you not to believe in any apparitions at all, is not the way a Catholic lives or feels. We as Catholics are bound to believe this. If you do not believe any apparitions or any private revelations, or just about anything, then I suggest you do more research about this topic. Read Anne Catherine Emmerick, you’ll feel differently. Her book is called “The Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ”. She had the gift that God gave her, to see in detail His Passion in every aspect. Do you also not believe in her? Do you not believe in Fatima? Lourdes? Guadalupe? Medjugorgie? Garabandal? Do you not believe in Sister Faustina who saw Jesus Christ in the flesh? If you do not believe in these, do you also not believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist?
Do you not believe in St. Catherine who saw the Blessed Mother who told her to make the medal of Her Immaculate Conception? What do you believe??
 
Righteousone,

The 2006 US Catholic Catechism for Adults (Received a recognitio from the Holy See*)* states:

“Public revelation, which must be believed, ended with the death of the last Apostle. There can still be private revelation, which…does not need to be believed by others” (p.526 under the definition of Revelation).

Do you believe what is written in the Catechism or what is presented on the Vatican web site or not? You do not seem to care much about these sources. I’m beginning to think you would not change your mind if the pope himself told you otherwise, which is not a very Catholic disposition. I would be willing to change my position if you could find an official Church document that agrees with you. Are you willing to return that courtesy or is all conversation with you a waste of time?

The Creed of Athanasius has nothing to do with belief in private revelations. Therefore, the discussion you had with MHalsey about whether or not we have to believe this creed is irrelevent to our discussion about the incorruptibles. I accept the Athanasian Creed, by the way.

I’m sure you will now counter by saying that the Creed of Athanasius does say we must believe in incorruptibles because it says we have to believe everything the Church teaches. Here’s the clincher. One of the things the Church teaches is that we do not have to believe in any particular miracles, visions, etc. after the time of the last Apostle! When the Church declares such a phenomenon worthy of belief, one is permitted and perhaps even encouraged to believe in it, but it is not part of the Deposit of Faith. In other words, a Catholic does not have to believe it.

Furthermore, you have not provided a single statement from the Church that states that particular miracles after the time of the Apostles must be accepted with faith by all Catholics.

Nor have you provided a single document that proclaims such phenomenon to be part of the deposit of faith.

You have disparaged many other people on this forum for not knowing their faith, but this is a basic teaching of the Church that you should know. If you were correct, you could have showed us all a quote from the Catechism, an encyclical, or Vatican II.

Instead, the only piece of evidence you have given is a line from a creed that states what we already agree on – that Catholics must believe in the entire Deposit of Faith and all Public Revelation (all that was revealed to us in Christ and handed on to us through Scripture and Tradition).

What you seem to misunderstand is that the Creed of Athanasius is not talking about miracles that happened after the death of the last Apostle, but about the Trinity. But here’s another place where the Church does address these miracles:

“While not belonging to the deposit of faith, private revelations may help a person to live the faith as long as they lead us to Christ. The Magisterium of the Church, which has the duty of evaluating such private revelations, cannot accept those which claim to surpass or correct that definitive Revelation which is Christ” (Compendium Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph10).

The Catechism of the Catholic Church also states that no further revelation is necessary after the apostolic age. “There will be no further Revelation” is the title to CCC paragraph 66. The paragraph goes on to state that Revelation is already complete.

The incorruptibles are post-apostolic and therefore not part of public revelation as defined by the Church.

Sacred Tradition is indeed part of the Deposit of Faith and Public Revelation, but, by definition, Sacred Tradition consists of truths from the preaching of Christ and the Apostles in addition to those explicitly contained in the Scriptures.

Please say whether or not you accept the teachings contained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

God bless.
 
Righteousone said:
That is untrue. Most of the people do not use the envelopes that are registered to the church in their names so you know what the count is. That is in fact the way you know how many attend Mass. I myself don’t use parish envelopes and attend Mass every sunday. Because I am not on the “books” as given an envelope, you cannot count me at that Mass that day. So there is really no way to actually p(name removed by moderator)oint the number of people there. I too use to work at my parish office.
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This is true because we count heads not envelopes. My husband ushers and he does the counting of heads at the Mass we attend and the ushers at the other masses count at those. it would be silly to go by envelopes.
 
Righteousone,
Do you have an answer to my previous post?

Regarding Righteousone’s response to the original post of this thread, it is naive to say that all people baptized as Catholics are “practicing” Catholics. Several of my good friends and extended family members are baptized Catholics but do not practice their faith by going to Church every week (some go a few times a year, etc.). This is unfortunate, but true. Just as there are rarely-practicing Catholics, there are rarely-practicing Jews, Muslims, Protestants and Orthodox Christians. The existence of these nominal believers has no bearing on the trustworthiness of a given religion; it only means that some people are more interested in/faithful to the church in which they were raised than others. Catholic Christianity is true because it has been revealed to us by God through Jesus Christ who promised to build His Church on His Apostles and guide her with the Holy Spirit. No matter how many members the Church has, or how many people fall away, the Church will remain the mystical Body of Christ and His spotless bride forever.
 
We could move millions more hearts and minds to the truth of the Holy Catholic Church. If we only behaved like we meant what we believe. Present company (excluding myself. Mea Culpa) obviously already do this. :o
 
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