"If straight Christians are so offended by Gay people, why don't they just stop having them?"

[Gaber]

Ed,

Your link does not give the reason, the reason was gay psychiatrists.

This was aired on NPR, Alex Spigels grandfather was part of this group…

Found here…

thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/204/81-Words

OK, so how does that, since the legal and actual psychiatric arguments are left out of your narative, how does that make it wrong that that was taken off the books as a disease, if that is what you are saying? We don’t seem to have any problem with letting Congress live on welfare, or corporations, as we appear ok with paying their taxes for them, so why are we so picky in this case? Whatever does the orientaion of someone who didn’t have, it appears, all that much to do with it anyway, have to do with anything? I don’t know; I’m just asking. To me it is lke any other action on the face of it. I mentioned corporations because they lobby for their special interest. As do the handicapped for theirs, and other groups for theirs. So I’m asking where the actual problem lies in your view.

BTW, I really enjoy This American Life and NPR in general! Sorry I missed that one.

 

[CopticChristian]

OK, so how does that, since the legal and actual psychiatric arguments are left out of your narative, how does that make it wrong that that was taken off the books as a disease, if that is what you are saying? We don’t seem to have any problem with letting Congress live on welfare, or corporations, as we appear ok with paying their taxes for them, so why are we so picky in this case? Whatever does the orientaion of someone who didn’t have, it appears, all that much to do with it anyway, have to do with anything? I don’t know; I’m just asking. To me it is lke any other action on the face of it. I mentioned corporations because they lobby for their special interest. As do the handicapped for theirs, and other groups for theirs. So I’m asking where the actual problem lies in your view.

BTW, I really enjoy This American Life and NPR in general! Sorry I missed that one.

Gaber,

Disorder yesterday and not today. The disorders are arbitrary assignments.

 

[keepingfaith4]

maybe cause i’m older t do not get what the op question is

stop having what???

what is it the poster wants straight people to stop doing

since there has been homosexuals participating in their catholic faith what is the issue here?

If the issue is to get the church to redefine sacramental marriages between same sexes as permissible,i doubt(and pray) that this does not happen:twocents:

btw–not an anti gay statement—civil rights between homosexual couples may be necessary in most cases

 

[cecilia97]

Sure, to the extent that they don’t make their desires the government’s business.

Absolutely. Marriage is an institution that predates the state. The state has no business or ability to redefine it. Catholics don’t want to outlaw homosexuality. We want homosexual activists to stop trying to push THEIR agenda on US.

 

[cecilia97]

I truly appreciate your honesty and candor. That’s what we need here. Thanks.

And yes, of course it is an immature argument. But it got us talking, and you to add your valuable bit. I appreciate that.

That valuable bit can be found all over this site and other discussions on this topic. If you are open to advice, I’d like to say it would be wise to listen more and stir the pot with misinformation less.

God bless,
cecilia

 

[Dominique1234]

Yes, I feel so alone on here, having that condition!

In other words, I have done my own faithless work and asked myself some actual questions?

Thanks. I prefer you don’t, as most “prayers” are wildly misguided missals. But in praying for me you are praying for yourself, so be careful what you ask for.

I will ask God to do His Will with you. Is that fair enough? That’s what I ask Him for me.

God bless! I will continue to pray for you whether that offends you or not. If it does offend you, you are oblivious to the fact that it’s going to help you in the long run. The Truth hurts sometimes. You learn something every day.

 

[Dominique1234]

One last thing.

You are not nice to even start a thread like this. But it is helping us Catholics grow in our Catholic Faith! Thanks for that. Keep the insults coming! It only makes us stronger!

You ROCK!

 

[Gaber]

Gaber,

Disorder yesterday and not today. The disorders are arbitrary assignments.

Well, yes, as are the vast majority of our paradigms. They are ad hoc at best in most instances, and approximate reality to a degree of comfort up to incompetence. In other words, generally speaking, if we can find consensus for our projections we stop looking deeper. Science in a way is an exception, but is limited in that it deals with surfaces, not depths. And few ever find the “off” switch for their discursive mind so they can go beyond it.

 

[fix]

Well, yes, as are the vast majority of our paradigms. They are ad hoc at best in most instances, and approximate reality to a degree of comfort up to incompetence. In other words, generally speaking, if we can find consensus for our projections we stop looking deeper. Science in a way is an exception, but is limited in that it deals with surfaces, not depths. And few ever find the “off” switch for their discursive mind so they can go beyond it.

Basically, anything goes.

 

[Gaber]

Basically, anything goes.

Huh? What does that mean? Anything can be imagined and lived as an internal or public life, even imaginations about what God is and you are. Much of it correlates with the dynamics of level of Creation we can encounter with our senses and mind, even if incomplete. But what does that have to do with “anything goes?”

 

[fix]

Huh? What does that mean? Anything can be imagined and lived as an internal or public life, even imaginations about what God is and you are. Much of it correlates with the dynamics of level of Creation we can encounter with our senses and mind, even if incomplete. But what does that have to do with “anything goes?”

What does this mean?

 

[bri89]

I think the catholic church will continue to lose credibility if it doesn’t acknowledge that there does exist some sexual variance. Not all aberrant behaviour is caused by sin. Some people don’t identify with their own sex, some people are born with ambiguous genitalia, and some people are “gay”. Pre-christian societies acknowledged this pluralism. It doesn’t matter if there is no definite scientific basis for homosexuality because science can not explain emotional attachments, and strong emotional attachments can develop into sexual feelings. Some people develop that way early in life, some later. People develop that way for numerous reasons and there are numerous alleged causes, and it’s not right to be moralistic about something that is not fully understood. For the life of me, I can’t see how these romantic/sexual feelings are “disordered”.

 

[fix]

I think the catholic church will continue to lose credibility if it doesn’t acknowledge that there does exist some sexual variance.

The truth is the truth regardess of how many, or few, accept it.

Not all aberrant behaviour is caused by sin. Some people don’t identify with their own sex, some people are born with ambiguous genitalia, and some people are “gay”. Pre-christian societies acknowledged this pluralism. It doesn’t matter if there is no definite scientific basis for homosexuality because science can not explain emotional attachments, and strong emotional attachments can develop into sexual feelings. Some people develop that way early in life, some later. People develop that way for numerous reasons and there are numerous alleged causes, and it’s not right to be moralistic about something that is not fully understood. For the life of me, I can’t see how these romantic/sexual feelings are “disordered”.

God created male and female. That variations occur in nature does not mean God ordained such things. We live in a fallen world. All sorts of aberrations happen, that does not mean that such things are good to act on simply because they occur.

The disordered inclination is a philosophical distinction. Such actions are not ordered toward the good.

 

[bri89]

That variations occur in nature does not mean God ordained such things

I do not see why we must put a moral spin on everything. Such aberrations may be quirks or inexplicable phenomena.

 

[fix]

That variations occur in nature does not mean God ordained such things

I do not see why we must put a moral spin on everything. Such aberrations may be quirks or inexplicable phenomena.

It is not a spin. Why leave morality out of this issue?

 

[bri89]

because I don’t think there is much scientific or biblical clarity, so conclusions as to whether it’s good or bad are premature. I don’t say definitively that it is good or bad, only that it occurs.

 

[fix]

because I don’t think there is much scientific or biblical clarity, so conclusions as to whether it’s good or bad are premature. I don’t say definitively that it is good or bad, only that it occurs.

The etilogy of it has no bearing on the morality of the actions.

 

[perro_sarnoso]

Well, yes, as are the vast majority of our paradigms. They are ad hoc at best in most instances, and approximate reality to a degree of comfort up to incompetence. In other words, generally speaking, if we can find consensus for our projections we stop looking deeper. Science in a way is an exception, but is limited in that it deals with surfaces, not depths. And few ever find the “off” switch for their discursive mind so they can go beyond it.

Gaber,

were you drinking wine when you wrote this? I mean were you waving your glass around and spilling wine everywhere?

People don’t go out to have “gay” children. Sin comes from three places- none of which are exclusive to homosexual activity: The influence of the world; the influence of the devil and our own concupiscience.

Sin’s influence is made “appetizing” and attractive by these means. We don’t become homosexual by logic of " oh, this is bad, immoral and unnatural…I’m going to do it".

We sin (any sin) because we see an advantage to us. What we can get from it. The benefit to us. Whether that is monetary, material or pleasure gain.

A sin is a sin is a sin. The offense of our christian values ( as taught by Christ) are offended, regardless of the sin. Adultery, Fornication and all sins of the flesh are wrong and bad.

At any rate- there will be no sin in heaven…venial or otherwise! So, lets concern ourselves with purity of mind, heart and soul.

Work now my friend…in the right direction- Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. A life of prayer and a life of the spirit is what we need…nurtured by the Sacraments.

 

[Gaber]

Gaber,

were you drinking wine when you wrote this? I mean were you waving your glass around and spilling wine everywhere?

Jeeez, if it was that simple, even a mangy dog could get it. But in my case, it took more than a sloshed drink. It took deep immersion in Catholic theology. And then a miracle happened.

As for the rest of your comment, thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[Dominique1234]

Jeeez, if it was that simple, even a mangy dog could get it. But in my case, it took more than a sloshed drink. It took deep immersion in Catholic theology. And then a miracle happened.

As for the rest of your comment, thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Why must you be the fly upon the dung heap by even starting a thread like this? Sadly, I wish Biblical “fools” such as yourself would just let us be.