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If the Catholic Church is wrong, which non-Catholic denomination is right?
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BrianH
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If you are going to pick on a group that does not believe in religious liberty, the Baptists are a VERY odd choice historically.
They have historically been at the forefront.
baptiststart.com/print/religious_liberty.html
They have historically been at the forefront.
baptiststart.com/print/religious_liberty.html
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BrianH
Guest
Why would you be sorry? You want that?
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wisdomseeker
Guest
:byzsoc:
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wisdomseeker
Guest
**Quote:
Originally Posted by universalist
so when priests molested and ruined the lives of their own young parishioners and then Bishops covered it up protecting the R.C. churches reputation and not giving a darn about the victims, were these folks displaying infallible faith and morals of the roman catholic church? aren,t they god,s represenatives of the so called “ONE TRUE CHURCH”?weren,t the bishops part of the magesterium? in apostolic succession? as someone who grew up with 2 people ruined by a priests molestation,the b.s. about the R.C.,s infallibility in moral matters is ridiculous to me! **
i am sure the devil is having a good time with this.
for he uses this very thing to keep people away from the Church of Christ.
we must realize that none of us is perfect. and all of us is subject to temptation and most of us have fallen into temptation one way or the other. St Paul is a great example of this when he killed many and became a great apostle to Christ. can you point finger at God and say he is wong? and His teachings are not infallible?
**“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… **
Originally Posted by universalist
so when priests molested and ruined the lives of their own young parishioners and then Bishops covered it up protecting the R.C. churches reputation and not giving a darn about the victims, were these folks displaying infallible faith and morals of the roman catholic church? aren,t they god,s represenatives of the so called “ONE TRUE CHURCH”?weren,t the bishops part of the magesterium? in apostolic succession? as someone who grew up with 2 people ruined by a priests molestation,the b.s. about the R.C.,s infallibility in moral matters is ridiculous to me! **
i am sure the devil is having a good time with this.
for he uses this very thing to keep people away from the Church of Christ.
we must realize that none of us is perfect. and all of us is subject to temptation and most of us have fallen into temptation one way or the other. St Paul is a great example of this when he killed many and became a great apostle to Christ. can you point finger at God and say he is wong? and His teachings are not infallible?
**“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… **
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
No, that is not what I want, you misunderstand my quote.
I am sorry to read that no non catholic makes any claim here publicly to be the “True” Church of Jesus Christ. Why is that?
Speaking as a Catholic I proffess my faith to believe in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic church, established by Jesus Christ himself.
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BrianH
Guest
I know. Groups who believe they are the one true church are fascinating to me. I think it is why when I look at my time on the internet I find myself only interacting with Mormons, JW’s, and others (present company) who believe that about themselves.
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Well if you have anything to add other than a complaint, please engage from the OP.
Jesus instituted his church on earth as it is in heaven. To simply wisk “Truth” away as if Jesus does not truly exist in his body, places your understanding of the Christian faith not of opinion but very shallow compared to the depths of revelation.
Peace be with you
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ellammcg
Guest
No. They do communion and baptism but they are not considered sacraments, just ordinances and they hold no real meaning in that they are both just symbolic. A Baptist can be saved and never get baptised or take communion and it will not affect his salvation in any way.
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BrianH
Guest
An interesting direction to take my comments. To believe that the term “one true church” and wisking away Truth and Jesus does not truly exist in his body are the only choices…as you seem to have done…for whatever reason…
Regardless…our view of the church (not that I always adhere to a strictly denominational perspecitve but in this particular example I agree), for those interested…or not…
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Jimmy_B
Guest
What do you mean by this?
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KingAlfred
Guest
“If the Catholic Church is wrong, which non-Catholic denomination is right?”
I’ve been Catholic all my life, so that’s pretty much my understanding of Jesus Christ. As a history and theology buff, I also believe Catholicism captures the essence of Jesus Christ better than any other denomination. Nonetheless, the bottom line to Christianity is just that – Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus is my holy man. He’s my focus. He comes first, always. One problem of denominationalism is that many Christians lose that focus. They end up obsessing over their denomination, and forgetting about Jesus, although they would never, ever admit that. Fundies are obsessed with the Bible. Many Catholics are obsessed with the Church, yet neither was directly, personally instituted by Jesus during His human lifetime. Sorry.
I’ve been Catholic all my life, so that’s pretty much my understanding of Jesus Christ. As a history and theology buff, I also believe Catholicism captures the essence of Jesus Christ better than any other denomination. Nonetheless, the bottom line to Christianity is just that – Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus is my holy man. He’s my focus. He comes first, always. One problem of denominationalism is that many Christians lose that focus. They end up obsessing over their denomination, and forgetting about Jesus, although they would never, ever admit that. Fundies are obsessed with the Bible. Many Catholics are obsessed with the Church, yet neither was directly, personally instituted by Jesus during His human lifetime. Sorry.
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Jimmy_B
Guest
Are you claiming the Jesus Christ did not institute the Church? What about the Eucharist and the other Sacraments dispensed by the Catholic Church. Do they not originate from Christ, Himself?
The denomination one belongs to is important!
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JRKH
Guest
While I am sure that you are going to be taken to serious task for this statement allow me to make just one or two observations.
First is the use fo the term “Fundies”. I believe that it is considered to be “in for taste” so I would recommend not using it in the future.
Second is that I both agree and disagree with your statement about Jesus not specifically instituting “The Church”.
Jesus did indeed institute the Church upon Peter and the Apostles. This cannot be denied for it is clearly stated in Matthew. Upon this Rock I will build my Church.
However, Jesus did not specify the form that the Church would take. He did not dictate a structure. At least not that was ever written down.
Instead he instituted a Church and promised to be with it and to guide it into all truth. The development of the Church structure over the centuries was an organic development suited to the needs of the times and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Likewase development of Doctrine has also developed organically as needs and challenges arose. This has been the beauty and strength of the Church over the centuries.
I wholeheartedly agree that we can too easily become focused on “The Church” or the Bible, or on winning an argument or whatever. There are so many distractions. We are always at risk of becoming like the Scribes and Pharasees and Lawyers of Jesus time. Too concerned with the tittle of “The Law” instead of focusing squarely on the Lord our God and giving Glory to Him with our very lives.
Peace
James
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ChristianKnight
Guest
What I said.
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sambos671
Guest
I think Jimmy Means in what sence is the RCC not perfect. There is sin. And there are bad things. Yes. Does the church teach infallibly? Is that what you’re getting at? And if infallible teaching is the issue then how do you define infallible? And what aspect taught is not infallible? When the RCC says they teach infallibly what are they saying? Did you know that there is a difference between teaching morals, doctrine, devotion, etc… Which one of these items (or more) does the church claim to teach infallibly.
The bible isn’t perfect either
there are ridges on the cover. Leather bound bibles don’t come from prefect cows. some bibles have smudges on them, others have a mistyped word. Some bible’s have pages that are a little worn or ripped. Does that diminish the truth of scriptures?
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ChristianKnight
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I do not think the church is perfect cause its human.I think Jimmy Means in what sence is the RCC not perfect. There is sin. And there are bad things. Yes. Does the church teach infallibly? Is that what you’re getting at? And if infallible teaching is the issue then how do you define infallible? And what aspect taught is not infallible? When the RCC says they teach infallibly what are they saying? Did you know that there is a difference between teaching morals, doctrine, devotion, etc… Which one of these items (or more) does the church claim to teach infallibly.
The bible isn’t perfect either
lol, that is a very weird way to compare, and the bible is truth, but thats cause it was written by men who knew Jesus. Not leaded by men who were not around when Jesus was. +The Bible has never murdered people.
The church is not perfect, I cannot get any more clear.
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sambos671
Guest
Then you are saying that the RCC is imperfect because there are people that are its members and by that definition you are correct. There are no perfect churches on earth that fit that definition. And protestants are just as guilty of murder. And how do you define bible? Because if you define it as the word of God the word of God asked Joshua to kill the enhabitants of Jericho.
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ChristianKnight
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The protestants didn’t murder the Templar Order, they didn’t star the Inquisiton, and they didn’t declare a Crusade that would lead to hundreds, maybe thousands, of deaths of innocent Christians, Jews, Muslims, and others.
How would I define the bible?
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sambos671
Guest
Catholics didn’t burn witches at Salem, Mass. Catholics didn’t kill thousands of Irish or starve them like the Lord Protector of England. Catholics didn’t kill thousands of Indians or Africans during British expansion. Catholics didn’t force Africans or Indians to become christian. Protestants did that. Catholics didn’t cause the trail of tears for the cherokee natives. Protestants did. Tit for tat. and as far as the inquisition which one? Spanish? do you really know your inquisition history?The protestants didn’t murder the Templar Order, they didn’t star the Inquisiton, and they didn’t declare a Crusade that would lead to hundreds, maybe thousands, of deaths of innocent Christians, Jews, Muslims, and others.
How would I define the bible?
And Yes how do you define bible (biblios book?) or do you define it as the Word of God which told Joshua to exterminate every inhabitant of Jericho?
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