If the Catholic Church is wrong, which non-Catholic denomination is right?

[ChristianKnight]

I think I’m finally beginning to understand what you’re saying. All this time we’ve been thinking of you as Baptist because you talked about attending your local Baptist church, but what I think you actually are is one of a growing number of people that considers themselves “non-denominational”.

Check out the article and see if this applies to you:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-denominational_Christianity

The non-denominational movement grew from the fragmenting and further fragmenting of Protestantism, until it got to the point where it broke apart so severely that people simply decided to read the Bible and decide for themselves what to believe without any outside body over them whatsoever. Most non-denominational Christians do, however, recognize the basic tenants of Protestantism, which include things like Sola Scriptura (read the Bible on your own, and if it isn’t in there, don’t do it) and Sola Fide (we are saved by faith alone, not by our works). That said, many non-denominational people consider themselves merely “Christian” and don’t like the term Protestant, since they feel they are not actively “protesting” anything. This sounds a lot like you.

lol, I have to be in classified in a group always. I love that, really (sarcasm) I do not care about anyone’s church. Which is why I think it bothers Catholics that what a Saint says has little meaning to me.

 

[Rolltide]

lol, I have to be in classified in a group always. I love that, really (sarcasm) I do not care about anyone’s church. Which is why I think it bothers Catholics that what a Saint says has little meaning to me.

It’s not that… I simply, literally, don’t understand it. What’s the problem with classifications? You have to classify things, or you could never talk about them! Whether you like it or not, your beliefs are similar to millions of other Americans. Joel Osteen is a perfect example of someone similar to you. He doesn’t have a denomination. He doesn’t have a degree. He never went to seminary. He simply read the Bible, came up with his conclusions, and got other people to follow him that agreed. He has a church, but it’s not affiliated with any group. When he dies, that’s it, it’s just gone.

You’re right… it bothers me about the saint thing because it’s beyond my comprehension. The Bible is a VERY complex book, and yet, you literally don’t care about what anyone else has to say about it. How can you interpret the Old Testament without knowing about the political rivalries of the day? Do you know what a “judge” was? What about the controversies involving accurate Hebrew translations? Who were the Pharisees, Saducees, and Essenes? What were Judaic traditions like 3000 years ago? How do those Old Testament traditions tie into the New Testament? If you can’t answer questions like those, how can you possibly comprehend the Old Testament?

Many saints have provided unique insights about the Bible, and some of them are respected by Catholic, Orthodox, Protestants, AND Non-denominational Christians! It doesn’t mean that they follow them blindly, but they use their ideas to get them to think about the Bible more carefully and in new ways. How is that bad? You literally don’t CARE about that? I can’t understand that.

 

[ChristianKnight]

It’s not that… I simply, literally, don’t understand it. What’s the problem with classifications? You have to classify things, or you could never talk about them! Whether you like it or not, your beliefs are similar to millions of other Americans. Joel Osteen is a perfect example of someone similar to you. He doesn’t have a denomination. He doesn’t have a degree. He never went to seminary. He simply read the Bible, came up with his conclusions, and got other people to follow him that agreed. He has a church, but it’s not affiliated with any group. When he dies, that’s it, it’s just gone.

You’re right… it bothers me about the saint thing because it’s beyond my comprehension. The Bible is a VERY complex book, and yet, you literally don’t care about what anyone else has to say about it. How can you interpret the Old Testament without knowing about the political rivalries of the day? Do you know what a “judge” was? What about the controversies involving accurate Hebrew translations? Who were the Pharisees, Saducees, and Essenes? What were Judaic traditions like 3000 years ago? How do those Old Testament traditions tie into the New Testament? If you can’t answer questions like those, how can you possibly comprehend the Old Testament?

Many saints have provided unique insights about the Bible, and some of them are respected by Catholic, Orthodox, Protestants, AND Non-denominational Christians! It doesn’t mean that they follow them blindly, but they use their ideas to get them to think about the Bible more carefully and in new ways. How is that bad? You literally don’t CARE about that? I can’t understand that.

No, Joel Osteen doesn’t believe preaching Sin which is retarded. If you want people to believen god, tell them about hell, and scare the “ironically” hell out of them, it worked on me.

I call it reading books. I don’t need the RCC to read a book Roll.

I care about what I care about. I do not care that some man had an opinoin 500 years ago, that might be same or similiar to mine. That is fine and all, but I am me, I am not his reincarnation.

 

[Rolltide]

I call it reading books. I don’t need the RCC to read a book Roll.

I care about what I care about. I do not care that some man had an opinoin 500 years ago, that might be same or similiar to mine. That is fine and all, but I am me, I am not his reincarnation.

Ok, so you don’t need the RCC to read a book. No one said you did. The question is… what books are you reading? Why do you believe what’s in one, and not in another? You do realize that saints wrote books too, right? How do you select them? What makes a book on Christianity or Scripture by a saint something you don’t care about, but a book on Christianity or Scripture by someone else worthy of reading?

After you answer that, do you know or have an opinion on any of these classic books on Christianity? Many are so respected that they’re still read in history and English classes to this very day.

Confessions
The City of God
Summa Theologica
The Story of a Soul
The Interior Castle
The Imitation of Christ
The Dark Night of the Soul
Utopia
The Spiritual Exercises

 

[sambos671]

Well, I didn’t really expect you to bring England in as protestant, but I guess they are a protestant country. I was speaking more for America, but o well.

Yes, but the pope had them ordered to torture and death.

The Pope didn’t have did have the Spaniards put to death. That was the polititians of Spain and certain priest and maybe a bishop. Not the Pope. And the Inquisition occured in Europe So that continent is fair game.

 

[sambos671]

No, Joel Osteen doesn’t believe preaching Sin which is retarded. If you want people to believen god, tell them about hell, and scare the “ironically” hell out of them, it worked on me.

I call it reading books. I don’t need the RCC to read a book Roll.

I care about what I care about. I do not care that some man had an opinoin 500 years ago, that might be same or similiar to mine. That is fine and all, but I am me, I am not his reincarnation.

Do you care what a man had to say 2,000 years ago? Or should I say men. We have lets see…
Jesus
Paul
Mark
Matthew
Luke
John
Peter
James
Jude
Who ever wrote Hebrews (could be Paul?)

But that’s only if you’re a christian. And if you’re protestant how do you get to your conclusion? How do you come to obtain your belief? For not caring much you have some definative view points. Which means you at least care about those. How did you get them?

 

[SD_Catholic]

If you want people to believen god, tell them about hell, and scare the “ironically” hell out of them, it worked on me.

I call it reading books. I don’t need the RCC to read a book Roll.

I care about what I care about. I do not care that some man had an opinoin 500 years ago, that might be same or similiar to mine. That is fine and all, but I am me, I am not his reincarnation.

On the first part… we should actually obey God out of love rather than fear buuuutttt… fear might be a good starting point

If you read the Bible you most certainly needed the CC atleast at some point in history…

I don’t say this to be mean but if you feel your opinions are just as accurate as the ones that were held by 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generation teachers behind the Apostles then I believe there could be a pride factor involved here

SD

 

[ChristianKnight]

Do you care what a man had to say 2,000 years ago? Or should I say men. We have lets see…
Jesus
Paul
Mark
Matthew
Luke
John
Peter
James
Jude
Who ever wrote Hebrews (could be Paul?)

But that’s only if you’re a christian. And if you’re protestant how do you get to your conclusion? How do you come to obtain your belief? For not caring much you have some definative view points. Which means you at least care about those. How did you get them?

I care about the disciples, but not what the RCC calls Saints.
I am lost, so protestants aren’t christians? The Bible.

The Pope didn’t have did have the Spaniards put to death. That was the polititians of Spain and certain priest and maybe a bishop. Not the Pope. And the Inquisition occured in Europe So that continent is fair game.

HAHA, yes, its on Europe, that makes it all better

Ok, so you don’t need the RCC to read a book. No one said you did. The question is… what books are you reading? Why do you believe what’s in one, and not in another? You do realize that saints wrote books too, right? How do you select them? What makes a book on Christianity or Scripture by a saint something you don’t care about, but a book on Christianity or Scripture by someone else worthy of reading?

After you answer that, do you know or have an opinion on any of these classic books on Christianity? Many are so respected that they’re still read in history and English classes to this very day.

Confessions
The City of God
Summa Theologica
The Story of a Soul
The Interior Castle
The Imitation of Christ
The Dark Night of the Soul
Utopia
The Spiritual Exercises

The bible? When did I ever say that?

Not really.

On the first part… we should actually obey God out of love rather than fear buuuutttt… fear might be a good starting point

If you read the Bible you most certainly needed the CC atleast at some point in history…

I don’t say this to be mean but if you feel your opinions are just as accurate as the ones that were held by 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generation teachers behind the Apostles then I believe there could be a pride factor involved here

SD

I don’t say this to be mean, but you obviously have no idea what I feel.

 

[sambos671]

I care about the disciples, but not what the RCC calls Saints.
I am lost, so protestants aren’t christians? The Bible.

HAHA, yes, its on Europe, that makes it all better

The bible? When did I ever say that?

Not really.

I don’t say this to be mean, but you obviously have no idea what I feel.

Europe doesn’t make it better comparison with European protestants of that time period is better. Both did the same types of evil deeds.

Protestants are Christian. I was making a point not indicating protestants are not christian. ie… if you are a christian then this follows. Saints and the Apostles just two different titles both describing an aspect of those people. Bible is a Christian book. But have you ever read a commentary? Same consept.

 

[Rolltide]

I care about the disciples, but not what the RCC calls Saints.

A “saint” is simply anyone that we know to be in heaven. The Catholic list of saints would also include Mary, Paul, all of the disciples, Abraham, Joseph, Jacob, Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist, and all other holy figures from the Bible. It also includes the early Christian martyrs (like the people who were thrown to the lions). I presume you care about these saints?

Also included would be people like St. Patrick, St. Benedict, St. Francis, and (probably) Mother Teresa. Are these not respectable figures?

Also, MANY other Christians, not just Catholics, regard these same people as saints.

HAHA, yes, its on Europe, that makes it all better

The point is though that there is NO Christian group (not even the pacifistic Mennonites and Amish!) that dates from that time that didn’t do similar things! If the Catholic Church is evil for that, then the whole of Christianity is evil as well. Clearly this is not the case, so we come back to individual sinners abusing power then.

The bible? When did I ever say that?

You said that you don’t care about what the saints had to say, but they usually said it in books.

Not really.

Are you open to reading any of these books? I have a couple really good contemporary ones I can think of too (NOT by saints).

 

[ChristianKnight]

A “saint” is simply anyone that we know to be in heaven. The Catholic list of saints would also include Mary, Paul, all of the disciples, Abraham, Joseph, Jacob, Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist, and all other holy figures from the Bible. It also includes the early Christian martyrs (like the people who were thrown to the lions). I presume you care about these saints?

Also included would be people like St. Patrick, St. Benedict, St. Francis, and (probably) Mother Teresa. Are these not respectable figures?

Also, MANY other Christians, not just Catholics, regard these same people as saints.

The point is though that there is NO Christian group (not even the pacifistic Mennonites and Amish!) that dates from that time that didn’t do similar things! If the Catholic Church is evil for that, then the whole of Christianity is evil as well. Clearly this is not the case, so we come back to individual sinners abusing power then.

You said that you don’t care about what the saints had to say, but they usually said it in books.

Are you open to reading any of these books? I have a couple really good contemporary ones I can think of too (NOT by saints).

I care about the disciples. The RCC has no right to judge who is in heaven and who isn’t.

When did I ever say their evil? Your putting words in my mouth, and thats not nice.

 

[Rolltide]

I care about the disciples. The RCC has no right to judge who is in heaven and who isn’t.

First, some of these people are obviously in heaven. Do you think it’s a stretch to judge that Mary or the Apostles are in heaven? Second, in other cases, the Catholic Church has an incredibly lengthy process for determining sainthood. HOWEVER… it is NOT the Catholic Church that makes the ultimate decision… it’s God. Once an investigation is done, the Catholic Church cannot make any more ruling on the subject until two definitive miracles occur confirming the judgment of the church. Only then, with proof from God, do we judge them to be saints. Sometimes this process can take hundreds of years, or it may never happen at all.

When did I ever say their evil? Your putting words in my mouth, and thats not nice.

I apologize. You have condemned the church in the past for things like the Crusades, Inqusition, and the Templars, without going so far as to call the church evil. I’m simply saying that Christians of ALL faiths have done similarly bad things. The Catholic Church simply has the largest and most visible examples.

By the way, as a completely different topic (since I was thinking about miracles), do you have any opinion on the miracles and appearances of Mary in Mexico, Lourdes, and Fatima?

 

[ChristianKnight]

First, some of these people are obviously in heaven. Do you think it’s a stretch to judge that Mary or the Apostles are in heaven? Second, in other cases, the Catholic Church has an incredibly lengthy process for determining sainthood. HOWEVER… it is NOT the Catholic Church that makes the ultimate decision… it’s God. Once an investigation is done, the Catholic Church cannot make any more ruling on the subject until two definitive miracles occur confirming the judgment of the church. Only then, with proof from God, do we judge them to be saints. Sometimes this process can take hundreds of years, or it may never happen at all.

I apologize. You have condemned the church in the past for things like the Crusades, Inqusition, and the Templars, without going so far as to call the church evil. I’m simply saying that Christians of ALL faiths have done similarly bad things. The Catholic Church simply has the largest and most visible examples.

By the way, as a completely different topic (since I was thinking about miracles), do you have any opinion on the miracles and appearances of Mary in Mexico, Lourdes, and Fatima?

lol, how do we know Mary is in heaven? Really, we have no right to judge who is and isn’t, even if the process is lengthy, that doesn’t make it right.

 

[fbl9]

lol, how do we know Mary is in heaven? Really, we have no right to judge who is and isn’t, even if the process is lengthy, that doesn’t make it right.

actually the the use of the word judge is at fault here,it is more a conclusion.
.just because you say so makes it so?tell us how did you arrive at this ideal{“really we have no right to judge who is and who isn’t…”}

 

[ChristianKnight]

actually the the use of the word judge is at fault here,it is more a conclusion.
.just because you say so makes it so?tell us how did you arrive at this ideal{“really we have no right to judge who is and who isn’t…”}

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you (Matthew 7:12).”

“Judge not, and ye shall not be judged"

 

[Rightlydivide]

How do we know that the mother of Jesus is in heaven? Although I do not think that the woman in Revelation is Mary, I think there is a level of decorum and reasonableness that must be adhered to.
Cynicism has its limits and how can we make intelligent arguments against Marian dogmas if we do not grant the most likely of presuppositions?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you (Matthew 7:12).”

“Judge not, and ye shall not be judged"

CK

Didn’t you just tell someone in another thread that they were stupid and ignorant? This quotation of Scripture seems odd coming from you.

Wow you are either stupid or just ignorant of knowledge.

Where do protestants say its all about money?
Jesus didn’t give priests the power to forgive sin, he gave his disciples that power

Methodists baptize babies.

I am glad you have learned so much, really, I am

God bless

 

[ChristianKnight]

CK

Didn’t you just tell someone in another thread that they were stupid and ignorant? This quotation of Scripture seems odd coming from you.

God bless

haha true, but would you like it if someone told you that you believe marriage is all about money?

 

[Ag_not]

CK

Didn’t you just tell someone in another thread that they were stupid and ignorant? This quotation of Scripture seems odd coming from you.

God bless

Not ChristainKnight, surely Isn’t he the same guy that started the ‘‘friend’’ thread where people were asked to say something nice

Or was that just limited to that thread only?

 

[ChristianKnight]

Or was that just limited to that thread only?

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