If the Catholic Church is wrong, which non-Catholic denomination is right?

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Perhaps we are all wrong. We are all sinners, not only in our actions but in our beliefs. We all distort the Gospel to some extent, but God acts through our distortions anyway.

This is the only feasible Protestant position, as far as I can see. Why are Catholic apologists so slow to address it?

Edwin

We believe that the Holy Spirit is leading the Church into all truth.

Given that, it has been addressed from a Catholic perspective.

 

[fbl9]

To me this almost implies a God with very limited power, as He or She can only support a single, very specific path to salvation.

JMTSW, YMMV

First off God is the Father,Son and Holy Spirit…there is no room for SHE only HE…God is HE
now we know in the OT only the Jews held the only path to salvation…St. John 4 Jesus’ recourse with the woman at the well.
"salvation is from the Jews…you do not know who you worship but we do…"Jesus is the single path to salvation so when He says listen to the Church which Church is He talking about…those that popped up out of now where in the last 500yrs or the one that has been and will be.

 

[Jimmy_B]

laugh now, because you won’t be laughing later. (1 Corinthians 3)

Hello SIA

Is this based on your own infallible, personal interpretation of the Bible? You aren’t trying to use a verse from a Catholic Book, the Bible to try to scar a Catholic, are you? :whacky:

 

[HankZ]

Hello SIA

Is this based on your own infallible, personal interpretation of the Bible? You aren’t trying to use a verse from a Catholic Book, the Bible to try to scar a Catholic, are you? :whacky:

If the bible is a Catholic book, why was it written before the catholic church began and why isin’t it used to teach with. Why when someone uses the bible in a discussion are they told by catholics not to use the bible in discussions because it is inaccurate?

 

[ferdie]

If the bible is a Catholic book, why was it written before the catholic church began and why isin’t it used to teach with. Why when someone uses the bible in a discussion are they told by catholics not to use the bible in discussions because it is inaccurate?

Maybe those catholics meant that the interpretation of the bible is inaccurate not the bible itself, or maybe the translation of the bible was inaccurate like the Lamsa translation and the JW’s bible translation.

 

[JRKH]

If the bible is a Catholic book, why was it written before the catholic church began and why isin’t it used to teach with. Why when someone uses the bible in a discussion are they told by catholics not to use the bible in discussions because it is inaccurate?

HankZ,
First of all, welcome to the forums. As to your questions:

**If the bible is a Catholic book, why was it written before the catholic church began **

This has oft been discussed here, but let me give you a quick overview.
The Catholic Church began on Pentacost with the descent of the Holy Spirit upon the Original Church Fathers. Not one of the Books of the NT had yet been written. Therefore your first statement is false.
It is true that all of the texts were all written well before their compilation and canonization into the single volume we call the Bible. However it was the Catholic Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, that reviewed and codified the canon as it exist today. (This of course includes the deutero’s which the Protestants later rejected).

when someone uses the bible in a discussion are they told by catholics not to use the bible in discussions because it is inaccurate?

I have never heard this before. Could you point out an occasion, preferably on these forums, where a catholic declared the Bible inaccurate? I would appreciate it.

Peace
James

 

[Jimmy_B]

If the bible is a Catholic book, why was it written before the catholic church began and why isin’t it used to teach with. Why when someone uses the bible in a discussion are they told by catholics not to use the bible in discussions because it is inaccurate?

**Who says that? **

**The Bible is a Catholic Book!

The Bible is read aloud at every Catholic Mass, every day, throughout the world and then the verses read, are explained in a Homily, given by a Catholic Priest.

The Bible is a Catholic Book!

All of the prayers and songs used in a Catholic Mass, come from the Bible.

The Bible is a Catholic Book!

The Bible was collected, preserved, protected, translated and passed down by the Catholic Church!

The Bible is a Catholic Book!

The Bible was written and re-written for hundreds of years by Catholic scribes (the printing press was not invented until 1563).

The Bible is a Catholic Book!

Books were titled, place in a specific order, and many writings were reject by the Catholic Church.

The Bible is a Catholic Book!

If you were a Christian for the first 1500 years of Christianity, you were a Catholic.

The Bible is a Catholic Book!

The Bible as we know it today, is based on a Catholic book, approve by Catholic Counsels and by Catholic Popes!

The Bible is a Catholic Book!

Christianity and the Catholic Church was here for hundreds of years…before the Bible was put together and approve by Catholic Popes.

The Bible is a Catholic Book!

First came Jesus, then the Church, then the Bible.

The Bible is a Catholic Book!

Everything in the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament, in one way or another, when understood in context, points toward Jesus Christ and support’s Catholic doctrine.

The Bible is a Catholic Book!

Any questions?
**

 

[Tantum_ergo]

And don’t forget, Jimmy, that Catholics do indeed use the Bible to teach. Mass itself employs Scripture readings. Many Catholics (I am one) pray the Liturgy of the Hours every day. . .a Christian prayer tradition dating back hundreds of years using the Scriptural exhortion to ‘pray unceasingly’ and using Scripture readings for the canonical hours of the day. For example, the Vespers (evening reading) tonight I will pray Psalm 122, Psalm 127, Ephesians 1:3-10, Romans 5:20-21, and Luke 1:45-55 as well as just before bedtime reciting Psalm 86, 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10, and Luke 2:29-32 as well as a daily chapter of one of the gospels (currently, St. John). Already since this morning I have prayed 6 canonical hours each with Scripture readings comparable to those I have given, as well as readings from the early Church Fathers such as St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Peter Crysologos, etc.

People who believe that Catholics do not love, read, and learn from Scriptures need to get to know more Catholics!!!

 

[SD_Catholic]

1. Intercessionary prayer for most Protestants refers to what is perceived as RCC doctrinal necessity to go thru a priest (or Saint?) to communicate with God, rather than pray directly to the Almighty. This concept is challenged, but prayer on behalf of someone else is fine.

.

I’m not sure this is what you believe also or not, but if it is I think you misunderstand the CC on this subject… The CC doesn’t teach that it is a necessity to go through a priest or Saint to communicate with God. The only time we must go to a priest is in the confessional when confessing any “mortal” sins (aside from the regular reasons). Asking Mary or any of the Saints to pray for or with us isn’t mandatory… a lot of Catholics probably pray directly to God most of the time, but we also believe that it can’t hurt to have the Saints praying for us also.

SD

 

[cthulhubryan]

5 Great Questions which cannot be answered due to a faulty precept.

1. If the Catholic Church is wrong, which non-Catholic denomination is right?
2. If the sun is actually an alien hemorrhoid, does that mean that a sun tan is actually butt tan?
3. If Islam is a religion of peace, are suicide bombers really love poppers?
4. If US Government is fiscally responsible, do we need to rethink economics?
5. If Obama relishes in the dignity of Human Life, won’t he just rip the FOCA into paper dollies for the kids?

All 5 of these questions are invalid because the first clause questions are all impossible and therefore the question is itself invalid. Except maybe number 2. (Now you know why that question is 2nd. Number Two )

 

[Jimmy_B]

And don’t forget, Jimmy, that Catholics do indeed use the Bible to teach. Mass itself employs Scripture readings. Many Catholics (I am one) pray the Liturgy of the Hours every day. . .a Christian prayer tradition dating back hundreds of years using the Scriptural exhortion to ‘pray unceasingly’ and using Scripture readings for the canonical hours of the day. For example, the Vespers (evening reading) tonight I will pray Psalm 122, Psalm 127, Ephesians 1:3-10, Romans 5:20-21, and Luke 1:45-55 as well as just before bedtime reciting Psalm 86, 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10, and Luke 2:29-32 as well as a daily chapter of one of the gospels (currently, St. John). Already since this morning I have prayed 6 canonical hours each with Scripture readings comparable to those I have given, as well as readings from the early Church Fathers such as St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Peter Crysologos, etc.

People who believe that Catholics do not love, read, and learn from Scriptures need to get to know more Catholics!!!

Thank you Tantum ergo. Excellent post, as usual.

I did mention that, in another post, which goes to that same question, although your post here is much better and more detailed that mine was. Thanks again!

Peace

 

[ChristianKnight]

In my experience, proper church affiliation helped a lot in my personal relationship with God.

I do not need the RCC to have a personal relationship, just as I don’t need my baptist church.

You are right, there is only one Holy Spirit. If two people prayed to the Holy Spirit for proper interpretation of the Scripture and both got different interpretation, then who’s right? My point is no individual have sole claim of the guidance of the Holy Spirit when it comes to bible interpretation but the Church founded by Jesus Christ.

My point is, no one or nothing has sole claim to it, its for everyone not just for Catholics.

 

[SD_Catholic]

I do not need the RCC to have a personal relationship, just as I don’t need my baptist church.

My point is, no one or nothing has sole claim to it, its for everyone not just for Catholics.

You’re right on #1 and #2… The Holy Spirit is for everybody… some just don’t listen to him or obey him… and surely he established a Church for something didn’t he?

You must admit that if 2 people claim to be guided by the HS and do completely opposite things (ex… certain religions claim abortion is OK… others absolutely not), than one of them must be wrong. Both of these religions will claim that their decisions have been guided by the HS… Truth is not this vague

SD

 

[ChristianKnight]

You’re right on #1 and #2… The Holy Spirit is for everybody… some just don’t listen to him or obey him… and surely he established a Church for something didn’t he?

You must admit that if 2 people claim to be guided by the HS and do completely opposite things (ex… certain religions claim abortion is OK… others absolutely not), than one of them must be wrong. Both of these religions will claim that their decisions have been guided by the HS… Truth is not this vague

SD

I do not know how the whole apostle succession got into the thing SD. I mean honestly, he did give the disciples the power to forgive in his stead, but that was his disciples, and he gave Peter the ability to bind what he said on heaven on earth, but he didn’t say that the power would pass down.

Well, I think you should stick with the bible, and if the topic at hand isn’t addressed in the bible (for example, cloning, which I do not believe is in the bible), I am against human cloning. I do not like the idea of cloning Cows, cause I love cows, not like love or anything, but I’d die defending my cows against predators. Ironically, I have had to kill to defend them (Vultures will kill calves)

 

[JRKH]

I do not know how the whole apostle succession got into the thing SD. I mean honestly, he did give the disciples the power to forgive in his stead, but that was his disciples, and he gave Peter the ability to bind what he said on heaven on earth, but he didn’t say that the power would pass down.

(Snip)

Since Jesus knew hw would not be returning for at least 2 millenia, why do you think he his authority would not pass to the successors of the Apostles.

As another way to look at that: Jesus gave the Power to bind and loose to the Apostles and to Peter in particular. The Apostles, using this power established and passed on the power through Bishops that they appointed, who did the same and so on. Thus the Church founded by Jesus is maintained through the apostolic lieage just as Jesus intended.
Remember that for over 1000 years the unified Church believed and accepted that Apostolic Succession. Even after the Break between east and west, the need for a valid apostilc successioin was recognized in order for a bishopric to be valid.
It is only after the Protestant revolt against the Church that we have the idea of apostolic Succession being questioned. Why is that???

Peace
James

 

[ChristianKnight]

Since Jesus knew hw would not be returning for at least 2 millenia, why do you think he his authority would not pass to the successors of the Apostles.

As another way to look at that: Jesus gave the Power to bind and loose to the Apostles and to Peter in particular. The Apostles, using this power established and passed on the power through Bishops that they appointed, who did the same and so on. Thus the Church founded by Jesus is maintained through the apostolic lieage just as Jesus intended.
Remember that for over 1000 years the unified Church believed and accepted that Apostolic Succession. Even after the Break between east and west, the need for a valid apostilc successioin was recognized in order for a bishopric to be valid.
It is only after the Protestant revolt against the Church that we have the idea of apostolic Succession being questioned. Why is that???

Peace
James

How come it would pass down at all? Do we really need priests and the pope? I mean, isn’t Jesus enough, even if he isn’t physically here?

Maybe freedom of thought? I don’t know buddy.

 

[JRKH]

How come it would pass down at all? Do we really need priests and the pope? I mean, isn’t Jesus enough, even if he isn’t physically here?

Maybe freedom of thought? I don’t know buddy.

Look at the number of different denominations with all different interpretations.
Look at “Christian” Churches who are now accepting openly homosexual members - even into the clergy.

Yep I think that Jesus very much intended for his authority to pass down. Otherwise he would not have told his disciples to take their disputes “To The Church”

Peace
James

 

[ChristianKnight]

Look at the number of different denominations with all different interpretations.
Look at “Christian” Churches who are now accepting openly homosexual members - even into the clergy.

Yep I think that Jesus very much intended for his authority to pass down. Otherwise he would not have told his disciples to take their disputes “To The Church”

Peace
James

Priests and the Pope do not directly stop that. They might order it not to be done, but if they had a elected legislative that did the same thing, wouldn’t hurt.

Where did he say that?

 

[ferdie]

My point is, no one or nothing has sole claim to it, its for everyone not just for Catholics.

We need the Church for the proper interpretation of the Sciptures. Our Lord Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to guide the Church in all truth until the end of age, and not to each individual. And if you think about it even if we as individuals pray to the Holy Spirit, we still come out with different interpretation. But the Church has given us unchanging doctrines from the time of the Apostles up to now.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Priests and the Pope do not directly stop that. They might order it not to be done, but if they had a elected legislative that did the same thing, wouldn’t hurt.

Where did he say that?

Hello ChristianKnight,

I believe that JRKH, who is a Catholic-revert, was talking about official church doctrines, currently held by some Protestant denominations.

James, please correct me if I’m wrong.

Peace