If the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church were united how would you feel about it?

[ForeverAdam]

I actually agree with you. Praise God I found a very orthodox, traditional parish with orthodox, traditional teaching! People around the area are flocking to it. I don’t think your opinions are lost on all Catholics. People need to be woken from the post VII fog.

Congratulations on finding a better parish. Does your parish offer the traditional Roman Mass?

 

[zagjames]

sterryfamily;2973573:

All of my ideas are in the Bible. Name one that is not

Sola Scriptura

Where can I find it in the Bible… I would like to know, I’ve looked and cant find it. Maybe you could elighten me Rightlydivide

 

[jam070406]

Congratulations on finding a better parish. Does your parish offer the traditional Roman Mass?

Thanks.
It will offer the TLM as of February once the new building is complete.
I heard in the past year the parish has added over 100 new families.

 

[zagjames]

I would be delighted to see union between the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church. However, this union will have to be based completely on the Holy Tradition of Orthodoxy. Even if the Pope could convince us that the doctrines of the Latin Church are the same as those of Orthodoxy, there would still be the problem coming from the many liberals and modernists in the Latin Church. We don’t need, nor do we want, people in Orthodoxy who desire to “update” our traditions, for such people aren’t truly Orthodox. Many Roman Catholics could care less about the small traditions that made up their Faith until only around 50 years ago. This is a major stumbling block for unity. Earlier in this thread, you made a deprecatory remark about the SSPX. However, as regards their defense of the principle of respect for tradition, they are very close to us. Your Church needs to recapture their sense of zealous preservation of tradition before unity will occur. In short, you need to convince us that your doctrine is truly Orthodox and that you share with us a love for traditional expressions of Faith before we can have a lasting foundation for unity. Once this foundation is laid, we can help the Latin Church return fully to her Orthodox heritage, and subsequently be in complete unity with each other.

God bless,

Adam

Adam, give us time the Catholic Church is coming around, we have just been tested, and our Church confused. The Catholic Church is like a boat that has been rocked it will take some time to sit still in the water again. But we will be steadfastly true to our traditions again by that time (God willing), and if the talks between East and West continue as they have been hopefully the theological issues will have been worked out. I pray for a united Church.

(At my college I am helping start the Tridintine Mass up, hopefully we will gain a big following, and pull some kids away from the not always liturgically correct Masses we have here)

I Hope to One Day be a member of the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC ORTHODOX and APOSTOLIC CHURCH!

 

[jam070406]

Adam, give us time the Catholic Church is coming around, we have just been tested, and our Church confused. The Catholic Church is like a boat that has been rocked it will take some time to sit still in the water again. But we will be steadfastly true to our traditions again by that time (God willing), and if the talks between East and West continue as they have been hopefully the theological issues will have been worked out. I pray for a united Church.

(At my college I am helping start the Tridintine Mass up, hopefully we will gain a big following, and pull some kids away from the not always liturgically correct Masses we have here)

I Hope to One Day be a member of the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC ORTHODOX and APOSTOLIC CHURCH!

Amen!! Well said brother!

 

[ForeverAdam]

I Hope to One Day be a member of the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC ORTHODOX and APOSTOLIC CHURCH!

May your kind increase! I pray that you are successful in your efforts to promote the traditional Roman Mass. Any work to promote Holy Tradition is work toward reunion with the Orthodox Church.

God bless,

Adam

 

[Rightlydivide]

Rightlydivide;2973609:

Sola Scriptura

Where can I find it in the Bible… I would like to know, I’ve looked and cant find it. Maybe you could elighten me Rightlydivide

You bet no problem. Glad I can help.

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

The first thing we see from this verse is that the holy scriptures, which at this time is more than likely just the Old Testament although I think Matthew, James, Hebrews, and possibly a few more have been written, are enough for people to see and discern the truth about Christ and salvation.
It goes without saying that God knew that this verse would come to us, because even Catholics believe God is the author of scripture, and that God does meant for this verse to apply for all time.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All scripture, not all tradition is by inspiration of God.

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

After all, faith without works is dead!
Now sometimes people will try to slip in concepts not found in God’s word like “materially sufficient”. Because that term is not found in the Bible any good Bible believer should not argue using unbiblicial terms.

Well what else do we have?
We of course have what Christ himself did.

Jesus clearly taught that Scripture is inspired by God. He regarded it as truth—infallible, inerrant, historically reliable, authoritative for living, and an all-sufficient rule of faith. He could say, for example, when speaking with the Pharisees or Sadducees, ‘Have you not read what God said?’ and then quote from Scripture (Matt. 22:31-32). In Matthew 4:4-10, Jesus repeatedly answers Satan by using the Old Testament as the Word of God, saying, ‘It is written.’ He maintained that not one jot or tittle would pass from the law until all was accomplished (Matt. 5:17) and that the Scriptures cannot be broken (John 10:35). In the prayer to his Father on the night before he was crucified, Jesus declared that ‘Thy word is truth’ (John 17:17). He affirmed the historicity of Adam (Matt. 19:4), Cain and Abel (Luke 11:51), Noah (Luke 17:26), Jonah (Matt. 12:40), the creation account (Mark 10:6-9), and the reality of heaven and hell (Mark 9:44-46).

Jesus also used the Word of God as an ultimate standard of authority when he came into conflict with other people. He rebuked men with Scripture; correcting their false concepts, teaching and misinterpretations of Scripture by using scriptural proofs. Matthew 22:23-33, for example, describes how Jesus told the Sadducees that they were greatly mistaken in their denial of the resurrection because they did not know the Scriptures or the power of God. Then he quoted a passage from the book of Genesis as an authoritative declaration from God to correct them. It is highly significant that Christ never appealed to tradition as a standard of authority; instead he used Scripture to correct the errors of tradition.

Well everyone also knows that tradition that contradicts scripture is not allowed either

Matt. 15:2-6; Mark 7:3-13; Col. 2:8; 1 Pet. 1:18; Gal. 1:14

Let us also remember that Jesus said his words would never pass away and we knew that so called Sacred Tradition has not preserved a single quote from Jesus found outside of scripture!

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

We also know that God knew that Revelation would be the last book of the Bible and God as the author of scripture said:

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. Rev 22:18-19

It is very important for you to know that Sola Scriptura is your word, not mine. I do not use the phrase because it is not found in scripture although of course the concept is easy for anyone to find. Thus when Christians had easier access to scripture, God worked through them for his message to get out to everyone. And has it ever worked! Every day people come to a saving knowledge of Jesus!

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I would know there had been a mistake somewhere It won’t happen - if anything is certain, that is it. All sides know they are absolutely right, so they are never ever ever ever…(but you get the idea) going to admit that they are not. Why should they ? Why say “I’m in the wrong” when you know, as a revealed truth, that you are absolutely in the right ?​

This is the dogmatic principle coming back to bite the dogma-minded churches where it hurts: because the DogPrin buttresses fallen human pride with Divine certainty. This makes reconciliation without the capitulation of one side to the other absolutely impossible. God Himself cannot reconcile them.

OTOH, maybe that is the definition of a miracle: God doing in reality what human sin & Divine Goodness make it impossible for Him to do.

 

[swariffin]

And I already proved to you that they were.

Can I see the proof, not your opinion. I am looking forward to see your source not your opinion of your undisclosed source. Just name them, you don’t have to quote them nor to make links to them.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Can I see the proof, not your opinion. I am looking forward to see your source not your opinion of your undisclosed source. Just name them, you don’t have to quote them nor to make links to them.

You would really have to read every thread where I have corrected him. Kinda hard to summarize. My proof is the Bible and that is what I constantly use. But having said that, is there anything in particular you would like me to address?

 

[swariffin]

sterryfamily;2973573:

All of my ideas are in the Bible. Name one that is not

Dear Rightlydivide,

Why don’t you restate your opinions, and quote the Bible verse in pharenthesis next to it. So, we can understand how you come into whatever you conclude. I know that you can’t quote the whole bible in this thread. Just be more specific please.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Rightlydivide;2973609:

Dear Rightlydivide,

Why don’t you restate your opinions, and quote the Bible verse in pharenthesis next to it. So, we can understand how you come into whatever you conclude. I know that you can’t quote the whole bible in this thread. Just be more specific please.

Which topic. I do not have a readers digest version of my thoughts, its not canned like that.

 

[swariffin]

So…you contend it should read…Then had the churches rest Catholic Judaea and Galilee?
Get real, what will you guys come up with next!?!

Dear RD,

No, It has to be read as “Then had the churches Catholic all Judaea and Galilee…” The word Catholic means unity in one. You cannot just cut and paste a word regardless of the grammar.

 

[swariffin]

swariffin;2975204:

Which topic. I do not have a readers digest version of my thoughts, its not canned like that.

Dear RD,

Maybe you can start up with why do you think that the current Catholic Church is not the early Church (that is one of your opinion, is it not?), and put the bible verse in pharenthesis next to it. So, I can try to understand you better. No offense RD. I respect that you have an idea to share. I will not make any judgement about your idea either. It will certainly not be swariffin who will determine whether you can enter the Kingdom of God or not.

 

[zagjames]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rightlydivide

 

[zagjames]

Well what else do we have?
We of course have what Christ himself did.

Quote:
Jesus clearly taught that Scripture is inspired by God. He regarded it as truth—infallible, inerrant, historically reliable, authoritative for living, and an all-sufficient rule of faith. He could say, for example, when speaking with the Pharisees or Sadducees, ‘Have you not read what God said?’ and then quote from Scripture (Matt. 22:31-32). In Matthew 4:4-10, Jesus repeatedly answers Satan by using the Old Testament as the Word of God, saying, ‘It is written.’ He maintained that not one jot or tittle would pass from the law until all was accomplished (Matt. 5:17) and that the Scriptures cannot be broken (John 10:35). In the prayer to his Father on the night before he was crucified, Jesus declared that ‘Thy word is truth’ (John 17:17). He affirmed the historicity of Adam (Matt. 19:4), Cain and Abel (Luke 11:51), Noah (Luke 17:26), Jonah (Matt. 12:40), the creation account (Mark 10:6-9), and the reality of heaven and hell (Mark 9:44-46).

Jesus also used the Word of God as an ultimate standard of authority when he came into conflict with other people. He rebuked men with Scripture; correcting their false concepts, teaching and misinterpretations of Scripture by using scriptural proofs. Matthew 22:23-33, for example, describes how Jesus told the Sadducees that they were greatly mistaken in their denial of the resurrection because they did not know the Scriptures or the power of God. Then he quoted a passage from the book of Genesis as an authoritative declaration from God to correct them. It is highly significant that Christ never appealed to tradition as a standard of authority; instead he used Scripture to correct the errors of tradition.

Well everyone also knows that tradition that contradicts scripture is not allowed either

Quote:
Matt. 15:2-6; Mark 7:3-13; Col. 2:8; 1 Pet. 1:18; Gal. 1:14

Traditon and the Authority of the Church laid down what the Cannon of the Bible was in the 300s throught the Guidence of the Holy Spirit. It is only by Authority and Tradition that you difinitivly know what the Cannon of the Bible is.

Let us also remember that Jesus said his words would never pass away and we knew that so called Sacred Tradition has not preserved a single quote from Jesus found outside of scripture!

Quote:
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Sacred Tradition has perseved his intentions, allowed his words to be fully understood and kept the faith together. To me it seems that Tradition and Authority are what have kept his word alive, and not just some wise words from some guru in ancient palestine as some new agers would have you believe. It is the authority of the Church and her Traditions that have kept the word of Christ in the light it was ment to be.

We also know that God knew that Revelation would be the last book of the Bible and God as the author of scripture said:

Quote:
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. Rev 22:18-19

It is very important for you to know that Sola Scriptura is your word, not mine. I do not use the phrase because it is not found in scripture although of course the concept is easy for anyone to find. Thus when Christians had easier access to scripture, God worked through them for his message to get out to everyone. And has it ever worked! Every day people come to a saving knowledge of Jesus!

No one may add to Revelation, or to scripture, but we may maintain the traditon that existed right along side scripture. Also Sola Scripture while you may just view it as a term, but it fits the beliefs you are espousing.

Sorry for the flurry of quote boxes. Peace of Christ be with you Rightlydivide and all forum goers!

 

[RedSoxFan]

I don’t think the CC would sell out. I do think the Catholic Church will honor the beliefs, and tradition of the East. The Latins will keep ours.

I do think if unity does happen, there will be of course dissenters from both sides. The Traditionalist Catholics will go ballistic, and the Traditionalist Orthodox will probably do the same thing. It would be no different from Second Vatican Council where the SPPX went ape hole, and became schismatic.

I see your point but Im not sure that would happen. At least with the orthodox catholics. If the CC doesnt sell out what do they have to be upset about? What would make them go ballistic?

 

[bobzills]

I don’t think the CC would sell out. .

You use the term sell out here.
What would constitute a “sell out” in your opinion. What do you mean by the term “sell out”? Does “sellout” as you use it here mean for the Catholic Church to give in to the demands by the Orthodox Church or what? For example, if the Catholic Church were to agree to stop the clown Masses and the Halloween Masses on demand by the Orthodox, would you say that would be a “sell out”?

 

[TOME]

I would see this as a great joy and a prayer come true.

 

[Rightlydivide]

So you are using 2Tim 3:15 eh, if we are speaking about this section of 2Tim look at the verse right before it this verse seems to point out the necessity of our teachers, who hand the faith down to us. Timothy learned his faith from Paul and the apostles, and he is told to remain faithful to it because those who taught him are trust worthy. Here scripture is saying that we must learn faith from wise elders and scripture. Two sources.

Yes we have teachers and they should teach the scriptures. That is why the next verse talks about scripture.

Also in John 20:30 it says and in John 21:25 Pointing out that there was more that Jesus taught but not all was in the scripture so that other knowledge must be handed down in Sacred Tradition. That is a logical step.

That is not a logical step. I have never read a tradition handed down from Jesus that the Catholic church contends comes from him. That in my view is a very dangerous step. It does not say that further instructions of Jesus are handed down in another manner.

Also Paul praises the Corinthians in his 1st letter to them in verst 2 of ch 11

It seems to me tradition is important.

It is neccessary to read what specifically Paul is referring too, he describes what he was talking about

1Cr 11:2 ¶ Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you.

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1Cr 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head.

Your leaders DO cover their heads while praying. A direct contradiction over what Paul directly, clearly says not to do.

All Scripture is profitable for teaching etc.
No tradition of man is not of God, but it can edify God.
**Tradition of God can be passed down by man. **

That is not what the verse says.

You can argue about the bible using terms of logic and in ways that help make more sense of it. If we can only use words that are in the Bible then out goes stuff like the Trinity.

I do not use the word Trinity, we do not use the word Trinity, but as I have pointed out before and Manny affirmed, we believe everything the Bible teaches about God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost.