If the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church were united how would you feel about it?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mannyfit75
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
zagjames said:
Traditon and the Authority of the Church laid down what the Cannon of the Bible was in the 300s throught the Guidence of the Holy Spirit. It is only by Authority and Tradition that you difinitivly know what the Cannon of the Bible is.

The only thing we agree about your statement is the Holy Spirit. I do not accept your canon of Hippo and Cathage so how can you say you gave it to us?
Sacred Tradition has perseved his intentions, allowed his words to be fully understood and kept the faith together. To me it seems that Tradition and Authority are what have kept his word alive, and not just some wise words from some guru in ancient palestine as some new agers would have you believe. It is the authority of the Church and her Traditions that have kept the word of Christ in the light it was ment to be.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
rr1213 said:
You have touched on this before, would you mind elaborating? I can understand that the Protestant rejection of Papal Supremacy and Papal Infallability derives significant strength from the Orthodox rejection of the same concepts. But other than that, why should the validity (or not) of Protestantism depend on whether the Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox Church(s) unite?
Click to expand...
Well, the papal question is pretty important. But it’s not limited to that. Because of the East/West division, in which there are valid claims of legitimacy on both sides, one can question whether the post-schism teachings of the Western Church, rejected by Protestants, really represent the teachings of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The Orthodox make some telling criticisms of Western Catholicism that go beyond just papal infallibility–the whole “legal” understanding of salvation, for instance, which lay behind the practice of indulgences.

That’s not to say that the East is perfect–the point is that if the Church must breathe with both lungs, and the Catholic Church had to get by for a long time on just one, no wonder it developed pneumonia and Protestants were tempted to seek for a transplant.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
Well, the papal question is pretty important. But it’s not limited to that. Because of the East/West division, in which there are valid claims of legitimacy on both sides, one can question whether the post-schism teachings of the Western Church, rejected by Protestants, really represent the teachings of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The Orthodox make some telling criticisms of Western Catholicism that go beyond just papal infallibility–the whole “legal” understanding of salvation, for instance, which lay behind the practice of indulgences.

That’s not to say that the East is perfect–the point is that if the Church must breathe with both lungs, and the Catholic Church had to get by for a long time on just one, no wonder it developed pneumonia and Protestants were tempted to seek for a transplant.

Edwin
Click to expand...
Hmmm…ok. So you are suggesting that after the great division between East and West there were no more full ecumenical councils of the church, thereby calling into possible question doctrine promulgated soley by the Roman Catholic Church?
 
Contarini said:
That’s not to say that the East is perfect–the point is that if the Church must breathe with both lungs, and the Catholic Church had to get by for a long time on just one, no wonder it developed pneumonia and Protestants were tempted to seek for a transplant.
Click to expand...
But the East was separate also. Why did Protestantism develop in the West after the schism, but not in tne East?
 
Just curious…

Do you guys believe, after reading the fathers of the east in the first millenium, that those fathers believed in papal primacy? Not just one of honor, but of jurisdiction?
 
sterryfamily said:
Just curious…

Do you guys believe, after reading the fathers of the east in the first millenium, that those fathers believed in papal primacy? Not just one of honor, but of jurisdiction?
Click to expand...
Yes, but I do not believe that the use of his supremacy was as liberal in its application as it is today.

I think and the Catholic Church teaches that the ordinary way of Church teaching on major issues is by the College of Bishops the extraordinary way is by the Pope. As it always has been. Sometimes decisions just need to be made. Have Popes taken initiative when they maybe should have left it to the whole College. So to make a long story short, yes the Pope has always been the highest teacher and earthly authority in the Church and has used his power as such throughout history. (not always in the best way, but always in a way that got the job done)
 
RedSoxFan said:
I see your point but Im not sure that would happen. At least with the orthodox catholics. If the CC doesnt sell out what do they have to be upset about? What would make them go ballistic?
Click to expand...
Well, if the issues of certain doctrines which the Church defined needed to reworded in some way or another so the Eastern Orthodox would see it fits more of their theology, they would go nuts, and claim the CC has fallen. On the other side, if the Eastern Orthodox accepts Catholic doctrines in its entirety, Orthoodox Christians would also go nuts. Of course, this is just my speculation.
 
bobzills said:
You use the term sell out here.
What would constitute a “sell out” in your opinion. What do you mean by the term “sell out”? Does “sellout” as you use it here mean for the Catholic Church to give in to the demands by the Orthodox Church or what? For example, if the Catholic Church were to agree to stop the clown Masses and the Halloween Masses on demand by the Orthodox, would you say that would be a “sell out”?
Click to expand...
Sell out the defined doctrines of the faith and reword them in such a way more acceptable to the Eastern Orthodox. Clown Masses and Halloween Masses are actually Liturgical Abuses. They are explicitly not allowed in the GIRM. The priest cannot add or remove in the rite of the Liturgical. He has to strictly comply with the rubrics in the Lectionary and so forth.
 
👍 I would be estatic!! Both types of Catholicism enriching each other—:extrahappy: That we could all be one just as Jesus and the Father (and the Spirit) are one…:grouphug:
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Sell out the defined doctrines of the faith and reword them in such a way more acceptable to the Eastern Orthodox. Clown Masses and Halloween Masses are actually Liturgical Abuses. They are explicitly not allowed in the GIRM. The priest cannot add or remove in the rite of the Liturgical. He has to strictly comply with the rubrics in the Lectionary and so forth.
Click to expand...
Not really. They are having off beat Masses all the time and nothing disciplinary is done in the overwhelming majority of the cases.
I still don’t know exactly what you mean by selling out. This is a term that you have used.
Altar girls are now officially allowed and as well Communion in the Hand is officially allowed. And as well, Peter, Paul and Mary type of guitar folk music together with swaying to and fro, clapping to the rhythym. . Would your idea of selling out to the Orthodox include the hypothetical case where the Orthodox demanded that there be no altar girls and that there be no Communion in the hand. Suppose that the RCC agreed to these hypothetical demands of the Orthodox. Would that then constitute selling out of the traditions of the RCC?
 
jam070406 said:
*“The 80-year-old Pontiff is planning a purification of the Roman liturgy in which decades of trendy innovations will be swept away.” *

telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/11/16/do1605.xml
Click to expand...
That would be nice if it happens. That is under discussion but not in our locality.
Still, what do you say is meant by the term which was brought up by someone else: selling out to the Orthodox? I don;t understand what is meant by this phrase which was brought up by someone else. The Orthodox do not have altar girls or Communion in the Hand. And there are a few other things, like they don’t allow women to give out Holy Communion. Would you then consider it to be selling out to the Orthodox if the RCC agreed to change this and put it in line with the Orthodox practice?
 
bobzills said:
That would be nice if it happens. That is under discussion but not in our locality.
Still, what do you say is meant by the term which was brought up by someone else: selling out to the Orthodox? I don;t understand what is meant by this phrase which was brought up by someone else. The Orthodox do not have altar girls or Communion in the Hand. And there are a few other things, like they don’t allow women to give out Holy Communion. Would you then consider it to be selling out to the Orthodox if the RCC agreed to change this and put it in line with the Orthodox practice?
Click to expand...
Why don’t you ask the poster to clarify?
 
Let’s all remember who JC gave authority to loose & bind on earth is also in heaven.

I would rejoice because of a greater glory to G ! Brothers & Sisters reconciled to one another! An Example for the rest of the WORLD to follow!!

The TRUTH is LIGHT and JC is that TRUTH and no greater LOVE have I seen than that of the Father for his children!

Struggles… Yep! Hardship… Yep! Division… You bet!

It’s not about Jews, Gentiles, Slaves, or Free… remeber! I cannot do anything myself… I offer it up and continue in faith, hope and love!!
 
bobzills said:
Not really. They are having off beat Masses all the time and nothing disciplinary is done in the overwhelming majority of the cases.
I still don’t know exactly what you mean by selling out. This is a term that you have used.
Altar girls are now officially allowed and as well Communion in the Hand is officially allowed. And as well, Peter, Paul and Mary type of guitar folk music together with swaying to and fro, clapping to the rhythym. . Would your idea of selling out to the Orthodox include the hypothetical case where the Orthodox demanded that there be no altar girls and that there be no Communion in the hand. Suppose that the RCC agreed to these hypothetical demands of the Orthodox. Would that then constitute selling out of the traditions of the RCC?
Click to expand...
I don’t know if the Church is going sell out anything or what. I only know this for certain, that whatever issues both the Orthodox Christianity and Roman Catholic Church will be under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. We ought to support it because when the Church speaks in Council, I trust in her.
 
bobzills said:
That would be nice if it happens. That is under discussion but not in our locality.
Still, what do you say is meant by the term which was brought up by someone else: selling out to the Orthodox? I don;t understand what is meant by this phrase which was brought up by someone else. The Orthodox do not have altar girls or Communion in the Hand. And there are a few other things, like they don’t allow women to give out Holy Communion. Would you then consider it to be selling out to the Orthodox if the RCC agreed to change this and put it in line with the Orthodox practice?
Click to expand...
I also like to odd, that Alter girls are allowed only in the Latin Rite. Our Eastern Rite Catholic Church does not allow it.
 
Rightlydivide said:
zagjames;2974954:
You bet no problem. Glad I can help.

The first thing we see from this verse is that the holy scriptures, which at this time is more than likely just the Old Testament although I think Matthew, James, Hebrews, and possibly a few more have been written, are enough for people to see and discern the truth about Christ and salvation.
Click to expand...
It says no such thing. Immediately before that verse Paul writes this:

“But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, because you know from whom you learned it,”

Paul is here referring to oral tradition.

And verses 10-11:

You have followed my teaching, way of life, purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance,persecutions, and sufferings, such as happened to me in Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra, persecutions that I endured.

And in 1 Timothy 3,15:

“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.”

Scripture is not the pillar and foundation of truth;the Church that determines and interprets scripture is the pillar and foundation of truth.

2 Peter,1,20: “Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation,”

2 Thess. 2:15: “Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us.”

Phil 4:9: “Keep on doing what you have learned and received and HEARD and SEEN IN ME. Then the God of peace will be with you.”

1 Cor. 11:2: “I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the Traditions, just as I handed them on to you.”

2 Thess. 3:6: “We instruct you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the TRADITION they received from us.”
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top