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bobzills
Guest
But what do you mean by selling out? Is it a sellout if the Catholic Church agrees to not have altar girls as is the case in the Eastern Churches? Is this a selling out of the Western culture? Yes or no.
If the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church were united how would you feel about it?
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Rightlydivide
Guest
Of course that is not what it says. The church, all who are saved according to scripture, is the pillar and foundation of truth for the world. It says nothing about the Catholic church being able to go beyond scripture to establish later traditions that do not originate from Christ.
ABSOLUTELY. Scripture is not of personal interpretation. You see, Catholics love to quote 20 and ignore 21 because it meets THEIR incorrect belief system
*2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. *
As you can clearly see in this verse, the tradition, I notice how your translation distorts the Bible to add a big T to suit your preconceived beliefs despite John’s warning.
Yes, its true, Paul taught them when he saw them. Do you have some of Paul’s teaching not in scripture? Of course not. You do not.
They happened in the past so of course they are traditions but now we have them in scripture.
We do not go beyond those teachings, it is the Catholic church that does.
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Prayerjohn
Guest
If the Orthodox church and the Catholic Church were to unite it would be guided by the Holy Spirt to do so. their would be selling out on any thing.
John
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John
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Joab_Anias
Guest
I think as the poll shows that the Orthodox don’t really care.
Christ was the greatest innovator in all of history.
Christs innovations are why the stiff necked Jews called the first Christians a sect of Judaism and sought to put our Lord to death.
Peace.
Christ was the greatest innovator in all of history.
Christs innovations are why the stiff necked Jews called the first Christians a sect of Judaism and sought to put our Lord to death.
Peace.
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Alisa
Guest
If the Eastern orthodox Church and the Catholic Church were united, I would be very happy about it. I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy from Catholicism 12 years ago and am presently on a path back to Catholicism. It’s difficult to explain why, and it’s a very long story…but I feel strongly led by God to return. One of my reasons is that my entire family is Catholic, and I want to participate more fully with them in a life of faith.
Love, Alisa
Love, Alisa
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Mannyfit75
Guest
The Eastern Orthodox will either have to accept the decision of their patriarchs or Council or none at all. I do find it odd thought, I usually held Eastern Orthodox laity more loyal to their bishops than the Catholic laity with their own bishops.
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bobzills
Guest
I am not sure that is entirely accurate. My understanding is somewhat different. Orthodox do want unity, but not in the Catholic sense of the term. They will accept unity on the basis of what they see as correct doctrine, correct liturgy and correct phronema. They believe it would be wrong to accept a false unity or to proclaim a unity when such unity was in reality not there.
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tomarin
Guest
how is this any different from the catholic position? we want unity too and on our terms, naturally enough.
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USCGwife
Guest
…unreal, the arrogance.
By “don’t really care”, are you assuming that because we’re not playing along with the opinion poll, that we “don’t care”? Could it be the question is not worded effectively? Could it be that the most (formerly) prolific Orthodox posters have been tossed out with the purging of the Eastern Christianity forum & are unable to vote? (As an aside, they’re secretly banned - no blue letters for them. Cowardly…) Perhaps many of us no longer bother to read this board regularly, having taken our dialogue to a better site (and guess what, many of the RCs who posted frequently in Eastern Christianity have come with us, too…).
Do we care? Of course we do. But the Orthodox concept of unity looks a little different than what I’m reading here from the RC posts…Bobzills expressed it well. What I find interesting is the assumption that “unity” means the Orthodox will “come around” and “give in” to Roman supremacy. Let’s rephrase the poll question using the assumption that unity means the RCC will abandon all the innovations & demands for universal supremacy…now how many RC voters would be happy, eh?
…hm.
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bogoljub
Guest
God bless!
I think if such an union will happen it will be a cause of many schisms and seperation ! You can see it even know how many orthodox are “angry” aboutt the uncanonical behavier of HH the Ecum. Patriarch !
We are loyal to our Patriarchs and Bishops of course but we are not loyal to anythinng contrary to orthodox faith ! And we have seen often that Bishops can fall into great errors ( Nestorius would u also be loyal tom him ? you would be a heretic)
You know that Bishops make a vow at their ordination to keep the Faith without innovation and the Tradition and the Canons without any change and they promis to keep and guard the people !
If they would do anything contrary to the Canons…they would not be true Bishops anymore.
In CHRIST
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Alisa
Guest
I feel that there are different approaches to “unity”.
If the Catholic and Orthodox churches cannot, or refuse to agree on the small number of issues which separate them, then how about “agreeing to disagree” – and sharing Communion as brothers and sisters in Christ. Both churches admit to sharing apostolic succession. As I grew up as a Catholic, we were told the Orthodox churches had broken away. For the last 12 years as an Orthodox Christian, I’ve been told the Catholic Church split away. As in most issues, probably “the truth” lies somewhere in between. In my mind, no matter what the separating issues are (and there aren’t that many,) nothing is so important that it’s worth our being separated since the year 1054.
If the Catholic and Orthodox churches cannot, or refuse to agree on the small number of issues which separate them, then how about “agreeing to disagree” – and sharing Communion as brothers and sisters in Christ. Both churches admit to sharing apostolic succession. As I grew up as a Catholic, we were told the Orthodox churches had broken away. For the last 12 years as an Orthodox Christian, I’ve been told the Catholic Church split away. As in most issues, probably “the truth” lies somewhere in between. In my mind, no matter what the separating issues are (and there aren’t that many,) nothing is so important that it’s worth our being separated since the year 1054.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
What if your Church Council agree with** unity without compromise **any orthodox beliefs? What if your council accept unity on the conditions your Church maintain orthodoxy? Would you still oppose to it? Current, we both don’t know what conditions will both Catholic and Orthodox bishop decide.
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ForeverAdam
Guest
Orthodoxy cannot do such a thing because Holy Tradition has always condemned communing those outside the Church. The Roman Catholic Church has compromised this teaching by allowing Orthodox and even Protestants to commune in certain cases. If she had retained Tradition on this point, she wouldn’t let those that she thinks are outside the Church to share in the most holy mysteries. This innovation is yet another point that separates us and will have to be removed when Papal Rome submits herself to the unerring Faith of Orthodoxy.
Only the truth leads to unity. There can be no unity in the traditional Christian sense of the word, where there isn’t one Faith. One Lord, One Faith and One Baptism remains the motto of Holy Orthodoxy.
God bless,
Adam
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Alisa
Guest
As an Orthodox Christian (Greek Orthodox,) I know this is the stand taken by the Orthodox Church. I’m coming to feel it’s kind of regrettably legalistic. We don’t have a monopoly on “truth”.
Alisa
Alisa
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Joab_Anias
Guest
I know this isn’t probably what you meant but if you read your statement it sounds like you think the layity have a better grasp on what Orthodoxy is or what its suppoised to be than your EP.
As matter of fact most everyone around Nestorius did follow him and his heresy persists to this day.
Can you show us that vow and how it contains the word innovation and forbids any change. Preposterous!
What your idea of that interpretation is hardly that of a canon lawyer, a theologan or even of second and third Rome.
Peace.
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Joab_Anias
Guest
Amen, but you do have a great enough grasp on the truth to come to that realization. I think God alone has that monopoly.
May God continue to shed His super abundant Graces on you and yours.
Peace.
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Joab_Anias
Guest
We cannot descend ourselves into bigotry when its the Church mission to evangelize.
Dr. Art Sippo writes “[No salvation outside the Church] was reiterated at Vatican II in Lumen Gentium Paragraph 14. Now formal membership is the ordinary means of salvation, but the Church has always accepted that there can be extenuating circumstances and that one may be related to the Catholic Church less formally [this will include many Christians of other denominations]. Technically, all validly baptized persons are members of the Catholic Church.”
Also some honest seekers, who through no fault of their own, did not learn about the the Catholic Church will be saved.
Yet you continue to exhault yourself and into what? What do you have that other Christians don’t? I would say much less.
Or is its motto “One Holy CATHOLIC and Apostolic Church.” Don’t see the innovative words of EO in there anywhere.
EO willingly perpetuates division with the ONE Church that alone remains constant.
The traditional sense of the word unity carries the same meaning the Pharasees gave it but not the one our greatest innovator; Jesus our Christ gave it.
This idea of one faith seems to be to force everyone into your mold. Futile if you ask me.
No tools of the devil will prevail against His Church. His promise, not mine.
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Philthy
Guest
The canon of Scripture -how and why you accept what YOU call the Bible to actually be all of God’s Word - would be a very good start, but off-topic!
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Philthy
Guest
Being “supported by Scripture” does not make your ideas true.
That is precisely why there are so many “bible only” theologies out there: because all of them have some degree of “support” in Scripture. All of Catholic theology is “supported by Scripture” also - except in your mind, of course.
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ForeverAdam
Guest
So, you don’t believe your Church is the fullness of truth?Amen, but you do have a great enough grasp on the truth to come to that realization. I think God alone has that monopoly.
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