If We Can Ban Terrorism Campaign, then Why Can't We Ban Porn?

[frangiuliano115]

This is not merely a question of free speech; it’s a question of practicality.

Like it or not, erotica has been around since the beginning of recorded history. How can you possibly ban a concept that’s so deeply ingrained in the human experience? It’s this kind of thinking that led to the 18th Amendment; they slapped a “BANNED” label on alcohol, and trusted that the simple existence of the ban would take care of the problem of drinking; look how well that turned out.

Of course erotica will always be around. I think everybody here knows it can’t be eliminated.

But maybe it could be controlled so that it’s not everywhere you look? I mean I see normal magazine covers that probably could have auditioned for men’s magazines back in the 50’s and 60’s.

I’m watching a normal R movie and all of a sudden there’s heavy breathing. You know, this used to happen in older movies too - but it was left to the imagination. Almost every movie has to be screened first before it could be viewed with a family. BTW, a lot of parents don’t even care anymore what kids see with the idea that they’ll get to see it somehow anyway so why bother?

And these sitcoms, and ads. I mean the list goes on and on. It’s just getting worse and worse.

Does art imitate life or does life imitate art?

It’s a vicious cycle/circle.

It’s adults of the type that Edwest2 is talking about that make up all this stuff. So it’s just perpetuated.

Yes. I wish it would be underground so that if you really want this, fine, but at least not all of us are exposed.

What would a physicalist say about this? How does physicalism see decency? Does evil exist for you?

You answers would be interesting.

Fran

 

[mikekle]

All this talk of “freedom of speech” is making me a bit dizzy.

Porn is freedom of speech? Okay.

Is this freedom of speech?:

Posting the 10 commandments on a civil bldg wall.
Praying before classes begin.
Having a nativity scene outside a church or in a mall.
Hanging a crucifix inside an office of a public bldg.
Saying the word “Jesus” instead of “God” in a public prayer.
Teaching evolution in all grades but not creation.
Proclaiming your christianity and being ridiculed in a university.

Why is porn protected by freedom of speech and not the above?

Now I know how psycologically damaging it could be for someone to see a list of the 10 commandments or the nativity scene - may it never be!

I guess it’s not damaging for someone to be exposed to all this rubbish that will do nothing but harm us and our attitude toward each other.

Let me go. I have to read Edwest2’s post again.

Fran

If its all about free speech, why does network tv still heavily censor broadcasting? even a small curse word brings in a big fine, not to mention if nudity is shown! Nudity is not even allowed on after hours tv…??

Why dont we have lawyers and liberals fighting this? I mean, after all its 2015, everything is accepted nowadays. lol

 

[iohannes13]

Feeling guilt is bad.
Feeling ashamed is bad.
Feeling sinful is bad. It’s bad/wrong.

Ed

Actually these are the same criticisms that I hear about Catholics because they feels these things from secular and non-Catholic religious people. Any idea why this comes from non-Catholics religious as well? I would think that especially the Christians denominations would follow similar thought processes regarding these things.

Porn is legal because there is too much money involved. And it is an issue. If they couldn’t convince you to buy it and that it’s ok to buy it then they wouldn’t make any money. But that you pointed out that they go out of their way to make you think that its ok, can point to their agenda to make money. Money Money Money.

Bishop Fulton Sheen in his books writes that the sinful are jealous and only want to keep the sin to themselves. No one else should enjoy it. I don’t know the psychology of what you and he said but there is a different thought within the Church about that than what you explained. I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m just pointing out a difference.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Hi Fran,

I had never heard of the term double speak or if I did I obviously forgot about it. I’ve never seen 1984, but I recall that sometime when I was 6 or 7 in 1980 or 1981, that was all the big kids were talking about. Then in 1985 and 1986 I saw the movie THEY LIVE. We are definitely living through that right now (except the alien part…maybe lol). Back to my point, I never saw how doublespeak was done in the movie.

The reason that porn is rampant, like other vices, probably has several factors contributing. But the number one motivator is money. That is why they push it so much. There is too much money to be made with that industry. I’ve read that the Home Video industry (VHS) took off the ground thanks to porn. You could “sneak” it and watch it at home now. The format wars between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray was decided when the porn industry backed Blu-ray in spite of the HD-DVD format having more advantages over Blu-Ray. The damn broke with the Internet and just made it to accessible to people.

Why do people look at it? This one you can write volumes on the psychology and sociology factors right? But I think a major factor is American culture itself. It’s focus and deification of individuality is a major factor in my opinion. We do not have a sense of community like other cultures do. I saw a documentary in PBS that studied Mexicans with a background with a heavy sense of community that immigrated to the USA. These individuals had less problems initially because they continued to hold strong community connections with their relatives and friends. But overtime, the American way of life started catching up with them and they eventually started seeing less of their family and friends. Then the problems, like stress, depression, etc. started. Their children were more or less Americanized and had the stress, depression, etc.that is part of life here. The moral of the story is that our culture causes people to feel disconnected and the psychology etc. explains that they seek other means to fill that hole. Those are just my thoughts. Our culture causes a hole and we look for false gods to fill that hole.

Hi Iohannes,

1984 was made into a movie but if you’re interested read the book instead. Never trust the movie version! It was written by George Orwell. You might also like these two:
Farenheit 451 (the temperature at which paper burns) by Ray Bradbury
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley

Now that I think of it, teenagers should be required to read these books at about the age of 16/17. It would help them to keep their eyes open - stay alert, so to speak.

I didn’t see They Live. The above books are very serious books and not about alien invasions - not that those couldn’t be serious too. I loved Signs with Mel Gibson. It wasn’t really about an alien invasion - well in a way it was –

And I beg everybody to see the movie Cloud Atlas. Everyone should see this.

I think we’re slightly off topic!

Yes, the industry we’re discussing does make a lot of money. I read that they make more than google and microsoft and another corp. I can’t remember, all put together. So, of course, it’s difficult to regulate it at this point. But I still say we have to get it out of everybody’s face. It’s just too much. I really worry about our youth. They seem to be accepting of everything because of this relative morality society we live in.

I find your culture analysis very interesting. I used to tell my catechism kids that we all have a heart shaped hole in us that only God can fill. Your point exactly.

I was born in a small town in Italy and it’s true that the people there are more “attached” to each other and draw strength from this. They get depressed too though, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. I’d say they’re less stressed and feel removed from world problems.

But now they have Sky and the internet too and I see a big change in the young people of today. The effect is incredible, you really see it plainly.

Well. At least we’re getting our frustration out of our system here!

Maybe Edwest is right. This generation will get tired of the emptiness, and empty it is.

Fran

 

[frangiuliano115]

If its all about free speech, why does network tv still heavily censor broadcasting? even a small curse word brings in a big fine, not to mention if nudity is shown! Nudity is not even allowed on after hours tv…??

Why dont we have lawyers and liberals fighting this? I mean, after all its 2015, everything is accepted nowadays. lol

Here’s what I think mikekle: Who cares about a curse word or slight nudity anymore when I have to see two men living together?? Or two moms raising a family. As if it’s all very normal. I personally think this is far more damaging to the young than hearing a curse word (but I’m not for that either).

Anyway, it’s the advertisors who control program content. So think about that. They don’t want curse words but showing a society that is falling apart is okay.

Shows you how morally damaged we’ve become - when immorality seems normal.

Fran

 

[edwest2]

Ed, your above post is perfectly timed.

I have a small bible study in my home. Know what we did today? Mathew 5:13-16
You are the salt of the earth/ You are the light of the world.

Must be a message from God!

Will be checking out the links.

Fran

Fran,

Glad to help.

Ed

 

[iohannes13]

Hi Iohannes,
1984 was made into a movie but if you’re interested read the book instead. Never trust the movie version! It was written by George Orwell. You might also like these two:
Farenheit 451 (the temperature at which paper burns) by Ray Bradbury
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley

I will definitely read these recommendations. Brave New World…? No way, that’s the book Iron Maiden wrote a song about. I’ve seen Cloud Atlas. Good movie. But I lost track of who was who in the movie. Maybe the book is not as confusing. THEY LIVE is not about alien invasion. They are already established (and in hiding in plain site) and the elite are in league with them. The movie is a critique of where our society was headed with the media being used to control us and keeping us “asleep.” OBEY. DO NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY. SPEND YOUR MONEY. THIS (MONEY) IS YOUR GOD. And the fight scene between Roddi Piper and Keith David is worth the admission lol.

 

[edwest2]

And now a word from the Federal Communications Commission:

consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/articles/202731600-Obscene-Indecent-and-Profane-Broadcasts

File a complaint. I have. Just be accurate and respectful.

Ed

 

[iohannes13]

I loved Signs with Mel Gibson. It wasn’t really about an alien invasion - well in a way it was –

Hi Fran I know this off topic, I’m sorry, but I just remembered an article that I read about the movie signs. I always thought that the last 10 minutes of the movie were stupid and that they didn’t make sense. Why would an alien race that can be killed by water invade a water world and land naked to the surface of the planet? The article puts in a very convincing argument that the creatures were not aliens. The author explains that they were actually demons and their physical manifestation was a projection by the individual looking at them. There were several points to support this. In the finale The water was holy water. That’s why it burned them. And the radio reported that people in the holy land had figured how to push them back. Interesting read. Now the ending doesn’t sound so dumb to me.

Regarding Cloud Atlas, I find it interesting how people interpret the future scenes. If you ask a Democrat, the say that is the future if the Republicans control the country. Ask a Republican and they say that is the future if Democrats run the country.

Finally 15 years after the Matrix was released, someone created a video explaining that NEO was not THE ONE. I always had a feeling that NEO did not live up to all the hype. The video is right and we had it all wrong this whole time.

 

[francisca]

All this talk of “freedom of speech” is making me a bit dizzy.

Porn is freedom of speech? Okay.

The reason (or excuse) why until today porn is still here because it is under the freedom of speech protection.

While we seek to prove that porn doesn’t worth this protection, we also should take a look at the techincality of banning it without taking away freedom of speech for other contents (neutrality of the system/ accessibility of other contents shouldn’t be disturbed, otherwise this will be the end of whatever we offer in our proposal to ban porn).

Originally Posted by pnewton
At the very least they could be required that a standard account not deliver pornographic sites.

I was trying to explain to pnewton the difficulty of the proposal above, the implication of it to the freedom of speech in general.

Is this freedom of speech?:

Posting the 10 commandments on a civil bldg wall.
Praying before classes begin.
Having a nativity scene outside a church or in a mall.
Hanging a crucifix inside an office of a public bldg.
Saying the word “Jesus” instead of “God” in a public prayer.
Teaching evolution in all grades but not creation.
Proclaiming your christianity and being ridiculed in a university.

Why is porn protected by freedom of speech and not the above?

The above is protected under the freedom of speech too, that’s why we can have catholic forums, catholic news, and so on.

Imagine if a group of catholic haters request to ISP that standard account should block all catholic information, then what happen is this: when we try to look for news about the pope, we won’t be able to find it.

This is what I am saying the difficulty of trying to block porn without really defining the “malicious nature” of porn, then porn is seen as just “another information” has equal standing with any other kind of information. Terrorism is defined as separate compared to other information, thus terrorism campaign is not protected under freedom of speech.

The implication of allowing ISP to block information is huge. Imagine a guy richer than donald trump can buy a telecom company and then he will set the screening system of all the ISPs content. If he’s a catholic hater, you will find that catholic material is difficult to find as compared to gay right articles for example.

 

[frangiuliano115]

The reason (or excuse) why until today porn is still here because it is under the freedom of speech protection.

While we seek to prove that porn doesn’t worth this protection, we also should take a look at the techincality of banning it without taking away freedom of speech for other contents (neutrality of the system/ accessibility of other contents shouldn’t be disturbed, otherwise this will be the end of whatever we offer in our proposal to ban porn).

I was trying to explain to pnewton the difficulty of the proposal above, the implication of it to the freedom of speech in general.

The above is protected under the freedom of speech too, that’s why we can have catholic forums, catholic news, and so on.

Imagine if a group of catholic haters request to ISP that standard account should block all catholic information, then what happen is this: when we try to look for news about the pope, we won’t be able to find it.

This is what I am saying the difficulty of trying to block porn without really defining the “malicious nature” of porn, then porn is seen as just “another information” has equal standing with any other kind of information. Terrorism is defined as separate compared to other information, thus terrorism campaign is not protected under freedom of speech.

The implication of allowing ISP to block information is huge. Imagine a guy richer than donald trump can buy a telecom company and then he will set the screening system of all the ISPs content. If he’s a catholic hater, you will find that catholic material is difficult to find as compared to gay right articles for example.

Hi Francisca,

I think that maybe you misunderstood my post.

Not to worry, Francisca, freedom of speech is not going away.

Which speech though??

The above, that list I made, is NOT protected by freedom of speech. I know you don’t live in the U.S. and I haven’t been there either in quite a few years, but all the persecution of christians started way before I left and it’s just getting worse.

I’m kind of praying that the CAF does not become blocked. Who knows? Some day our govt may decide that it’s detrimental for us to be so consumed with religious thinking. It’s so silly and could be counter-productive!

What if doctors become legally forced to do abortions? What if every church becomes legally forced to marry SS couples? Do you not see us headed this way? I do. I’m worried. I’m praying we choose our president very carefully in 2016.

Right NOW CAF is not breaking any “rules”. But porn, OTOH, IS declared to be obscene. So allowing ISP to block content would seem correct to me (although I really don’t know what this means).

I like that idea of putting everything into one domain that could be blocked by an adult. Also, I’d block pop-ups. That’s a problem even if you don’t go to a site. I was on facebook with my 15 yr old niece a few days ago and I can’t believe what popped up.

Coming into my living room without my consent or invitation is how I like to think of it.

Fran

 

[frangiuliano115]

I will definitely read these recommendations. Brave New World…? No way, that’s the book Iron Maiden wrote a song about. I’ve seen Cloud Atlas. Good movie. But I lost track of who was who in the movie. Maybe the book is not as confusing. THEY LIVE is not about alien invasion. They are already established (and in hiding in plain site) and the elite are in league with them. The movie is a critique of where our society was headed with the media being used to control us and keeping us “asleep.” OBEY. DO NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY. SPEND YOUR MONEY. THIS (MONEY) IS YOUR GOD. And the fight scene between Roddi Piper and Keith David is worth the admission lol.

Cloud Atlas was a very good movie. 6 stories at 6 different times of history and all with the same message. I didn’t even recognize Tom Hanks in one of the stories! Won’t give away the theme in case anyone would like to watch it.

I checked out Iron Maiden’s lyrics based on Brave New World. Needless to say, they’re not a band I care to listen to; the music itself turns me off without even getting into lyrics.
But the words for the song you mention are really very good. You should go ahead and read the book - I think you’d like it.

Also read about They Live. Don’t watch this type of movie. No matter how good the message is, and I do agree with this one, I couldn’t sit through the bad acting and directing. John Carpenter is not a good director, for my taste.

Now regarding Signs. Critics will always read some of their own thinking into any critique. I know because I have a brother who is good at this and also writes for a jazz magazine.

Now how could the aliens in Signs be a projection if there are spaceships all over the earth? Maybe the writer means that they are a personification of evil. Artistic freedom and thought are always allowed! However, this is not important. The water analogy is important. Also, water is a very simple element here on earth and sometimes it takes a simple thing to make us understand something. Also, water runs through the whole bible, including baptism. The ending is super important because the little daughter’s breathing problem, which the father, M.G., always saw as just another “cross” he had to bear after the wife’s death, turned out to be what saved her life! Here too, let’s not give away too much in case some would like to watch the movie.

Now I don’t mind gettng off topic a bit because, although Signs is a totally different theme, the other 3 books we spoke of and the movie Cloud Atlas all could be said to have to with what we’re talking about here - in a round’about sort of way. Puttin us “to sleep” so that we don’t notice or care, or are being distracted about what’s happening around us.

I think the point of Cloud Atlas is that we’ll always be oppressed, no matter who is in charge.

And if Neo isn’t The One, then who or what is? Is each of us The One?? In our choice of the blue pill or the yellow pill?? Is it an allusion to God? I can’t see Him in this movie…

Hope the other posters forgive us!

Fran

 

[iohannes13]

Cloud Atlas was a very good movie. 6 stories at 6 different times of history and all with the same message. I didn’t even recognize Tom Hanks in one of the stories! Won’t give away the theme in case anyone would like to watch it.

I checked out Iron Maiden’s lyrics based on Brave New World. Needless to say, they’re not a band I care to listen to; the music itself turns me off without even getting into lyrics.
But the words for the song you mention are really very good. You should go ahead and read the book - I think you’d like it.

Also read about They Live. Don’t watch this type of movie. No matter how good the message is, and I do agree with this one, I couldn’t sit through the bad acting and directing. John Carpenter is not a good director, for my taste.

Now regarding Signs. Critics will always read some of their own thinking into any critique. I know because I have a brother who is good at this and also writes for a jazz magazine.

Now how could the aliens in Signs be a projection if there are spaceships all over the earth? Maybe the writer means that they are a personification of evil. Artistic freedom and thought are always allowed! However, this is not important. The water analogy is important. Also, water is a very simple element here on earth and sometimes it takes a simple thing to make us understand something. Also, water runs through the whole bible, including baptism. The ending is super important because the little daughter’s breathing problem, which the father, M.G., always saw as just another “cross” he had to bear after the wife’s death, turned out to be what saved her life! Here too, let’s not give away too much in case some would like to watch the movie.

Now I don’t mind gettng off topic a bit because, although Signs is a totally different theme, the other 3 books we spoke of and the movie Cloud Atlas all could be said to have to with what we’re talking about here - in a round’about sort of way. Puttin us “to sleep” so that we don’t notice or care, or are being distracted about what’s happening around us.

I think the point of Cloud Atlas is that we’ll always be oppressed, no matter who is in charge.

And if Neo isn’t The One, then who or what is? Is each of us The One?? In our choice of the blue pill or the yellow pill?? Is it an allusion to God? I can’t see Him in this movie…

Hope the other posters forgive us!

Fran

You need to sit down for this one. Agent Smith is THE ONE. Look up the vid on YouTube. You’ll see that it’s not a hokey theory lol.

By projection it’s meant that they were demons but what people saw was based on themselves. They projected the alien images and the demons reflected them back at them. The significance of the holy Land figuring out how to beat them points to it being the religious center of the Earth where the knowledge to beat demons should be found.

 

[frangiuliano115]

You need to sit down for this one. Agent Smith is THE ONE. Look up the vid on YouTube. You’ll see that it’s not a hokey theory lol.

By projection it’s meant that they were demons but what people saw was based on themselves. They projected the alien images and the demons reflected them back at them. The significance of the holy Land figuring out how to beat them points to it being the religious center of the Earth where the knowledge to beat demons should be found.

Will be looking up the video this evening. Interesting about Isreal!

Now let’s get some dust off the furniture!!

Fran

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Let’s be realistic here.

How exactly do you plan on banning pornography? Pass a law against it? Ha! There are laws against drugs and people still get them. There are laws against murder but people still kill. There are laws against rape but men still rape. There are laws against insider trading but that still happens too.

Do you really think simply passing a law against it (assuming you could get enough lawmakers on board with the idea) will make the problem go away?

You’ll have better luck simply praying that it goes away.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Let’s be realistic here.

How exactly do you plan on banning pornography? Pass a law against it? Ha! There are laws against drugs and people still get them. There are laws against murder but people still kill. There are laws against rape but men still rape. There are laws against insider trading but that still happens too.

Do you really think simply passing a law against it (assuming you could get enough lawmakers on board with the idea) will make the problem go away?

You’ll have better luck simply praying that it goes away.

There are laws against drugs
there are laws against murder
there are laws against rape
there are laws against insider trading

And people still get drugs, still kill, still rape, and trade illegally.

But they end up in prison.

Fran
I agree about the praying, but evil abounds.

 

[francisca]

Just because crime continue to happen, doesn’t mean crime law isn’t useful.

 

[francisca]

And now a word from the Federal Communications Commission:

consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/articles/202731600-Obscene-Indecent-and-Profane-Broadcasts

File a complaint. I have. Just be accurate and respectful.

Ed

Isn’t it rather tedious to everytime file a complaint for every single program on specific day/time describing the dialog and so on.
I think youtube way to report malicious content is good because the button is provided. Youtube is very resonsive. In the past my youtube was littered with nudity (korean 18+ movies, european programs can appear from nowhere). After I reported two three times, it disappear completely).

 

[exnihilo]

Let’s be realistic here.

How exactly do you plan on banning pornography? Pass a law against it? Ha! There are laws against drugs and people still get them. There are laws against murder but people still kill. There are laws against rape but men still rape. There are laws against insider trading but that still happens too.

Do you really think simply passing a law against it (assuming you could get enough lawmakers on board with the idea) will make the problem go away?

You’ll have better luck simply praying that it goes away.

I agree that laws against things don’t cause that thing to disappear. And I’m actually in favor of legalizing drugs but also in favor of criminalizing pornography. I agree you can’t stop porn but I do think you can really cut down on its distribution. The federal government has used its power to make it hard to get pirated media content. It hasn’t made it completely disappear. But it takes much more effort to get. You can’t casually find it like you can porn. I think at least making it hard to get would help. In the case of porn the biggest channel is the Internet. It would be easy to restrict access because the majority of people get it through just a few providers. I imagine this is also the reason it doesn’t get stopped. The government isn’t about to burden ISPs unless it is for the profit of major media companies, which often times are the same company as the ISP.

 

[francisca]

I think in the past prohibition of alcohol (post #43) was not very successful because it focused on the small saloons instead of the factories/ producers-- the big companies, not the retails (saloons). You should be allowed to buy it if you can find it, there is no point punishing the retail people. But the problem is the biggies have $$$, Usually business has some lobby power, so then the law that got passed was nainly against saloons (the selling of alcohol) and not the producing/ supply of it. The question should have been asked was “why the supply was still coming, despite the law?”, and not “why people still buying?”.

People will still buy porn/ download, as long as they can still find it, and they shouldn’t be punished for that. It will become ugly intrusion of privacy if the new law against porn is against the people. It has to regulate the supply instead, and also to prevent people to post their naked picts in the social media too. The law should give grace period for everybody to remove their risky content from their social media. This shouldn’t be that hard. The hard part is the big companies with $$$ and lawyers. They’ll fight with first amendment on their hand and ask for evidence of the harmful-nature of porn or whatever scenario we push to ban them with.