If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by Memaw:

Well it took them 1,000 years to make up their mind then. to break away. You really need to study History. The “development” of the Papacy began with Peter.

You’d be hard-pressed to find any early Bishop of Rome making claims of infallibility, or of being chief pastor of the Church. The differences between East and West began much earlier than the formal split in 1054. The move of the capital, the alignment of Western Rome with the Franks, the addition of the filioque to the Creed (pushed by the Franks but opposed by Rome), etc.–all these added to tensions between East and West. There is no need to put development in quotation marks, because this is exactly what Rome claims it to be: a development of doctrine (albeit a legitimate one in their eyes). And this development of doctrine concerning the Bishop of Rome did not occur in the East as it did in the West.

When the split did occur, Rome went its own way while the other four major Patriarchs remained firm in the Faith.

 

[w_stewart]

I think you should study Church history, and not simply the papal version of it either.

The West went its own way, separate from the East.

Well, historical records show that Orthodox Churches were not known before 1054. The only Chrisitan Church existent since 33 AD has been the Catholic Church.

No historical proof supports the assertion that Orthodox Churches existed earlier than the Catholic Church.

 

[Madaglan]

The Orthodox Church is the Catholic Church.

The Papist church (i.e. The Roman Catholic Church) did not come into being until much later than 33 AD, although the Roman Catholic Church today traces its succession to about this time (just as do the Orthodox bishops).

 

[mikew262]

Whether you are Eastern or Roman, you are still Catholic, and more important Christian. Each branch claims they were around first depending upon your reference and perspective, so its kind of useless to keep debating it.

 

[Memaw]

You’d be hard-pressed to find any early Bishop of Rome making claims of infallibility, or of being chief pastor of the Church. The differences between East and West began much earlier than the formal split in 1054. The move of the capital, the alignment of Western Rome with the Franks, the addition of the filioque to the Creed (pushed by the Franks but opposed by Rome), etc.–all these added to tensions between East and West. There is no need to put development in quotation marks, because this is exactly what Rome claims it to be: a development of doctrine (albeit a legitimate one in their eyes). And this development of doctrine concerning the Bishop of Rome did not occur in the East as it did in the West.

When the split did occur, Rome went its own way while the other four major Patriarchs remained firm in the Faith.

Peter received his role as head of all the Apostles from Jesus himself, John 21:17 , Acts 15: 19, Luke 9:32, Mark 16:7and it has continued on the same ever since, read the Acts of the Apostles, The infallibility was promised by Jesus also when HE told Peter, "Whatever you Bind on earth, will be bound in Heaven. the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit in All truth and cannot error, John 16:26 There are many others Peter, the Pope has had its Holy See in Rome for 2,000 years, it never went anywhere.

 

[thecoach]

As someone who was an Episcopalian before becoming Catholic, I can say from my own experience, and others that I have talked to, that most people who are not Catholic have no idea what the Catholic church is all about. They may think they know, but they often have a lot of misunderstanding.

When I was Episcopalian, I figured the church was “almost Catholic” except for a few things here & there. I was completely wrong. There is a lot of misinformation out there (such as the preposterous idea that Catholics aren’t Christians) so I would venture a guess that a lot of people aren’t Catholic simply because what little they do know about the Catholic church is incorrect.

Thats a huge assumption on your part. As a former Catholic, I was VERY knowlegable of my faith, and for years was its staunchest defender. Prayer lead me to know the truth, and I left. What is amusing here is that the question asked by the OP is simply a question, yet you all feel the need to pounce on everyone answering. Speak for yourself regarding levels of knowledge.

 

[thecoach]

Peter received his role as head of all the Apostles from Jesus himself, John 21:17 , Acts 15: 19, Luke 9:32, Mark 16:7and it has continued on the same ever since, read the Acts of the Apostles, The infallibility was promised by Jesus also when HE told Peter, "Whatever you Bind on earth, will be bound in Heaven. the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit in All truth and cannot error, John 16:26 There are many others Peter, the Pope has had its Holy See in Rome for 2,000 years, it never went anywhere.

Blatant misinterpretation.

 

[Memaw]

Thats a huge assumption on your part. As a former Catholic, I was VERY knowlegable of my faith, and for years was its staunchest defender. Prayer lead me to know the truth, and I left. What is amusing here is that the question asked by the OP is simply a question, yet you all feel the need to pounce on everyone answering. Speak for yourself regarding levels of knowledge.

Monsignor Chido often says that the longest journey a person ever has to make is the distance between the HEAD and the HEART. A lot of knowledge does not make faith, somehow it never reached your heart, or nothing would be able to take you away from the TRUTH. I would suggest you spend some time with the Blessed Sacrament, just you and Jesus, if possible and pray. And stop being sooo defensive and trust God. If we throw up road blocks along the way we will never accomplish unity… One never leaves the Catholic Church because they love it, but because they do not understand it.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Thats a huge assumption on your part. As a former Catholic, I was VERY knowlegable of my faith, and for years was its staunchest defender. Prayer lead me to know the truth, and I left. What is amusing here is that the question asked by the OP is simply a question, yet you all feel the need to pounce on everyone answering. Speak for yourself regarding levels of knowledge.

You’re right, it may be an assumption on my part. It is strictly based on my own, admittedly anecdotal, experience, and not some statistical study. But everyone that I have ever met who told me about the various things that they didn’t like/didn’t agree with about the Catholic church didn’t know what they were talking about. And this is a common experience for Catholics, from others that have shared their experience with me, so my experiences are far from unique.

I was not “pouncing” on anyone or anything, I was submitting a possible explanation based on experience. I’m not the first to note the wealth of misinformation out there about the Catholic church, since far more learned and renowned personages, such as Fulton Sheen, have spoken about the situation for decades. Yet your reaction was quite hostile. Perhaps you are reading something that is not there from your own experience and your own views?

 

[DHC1Chipmunk]

DHC1Chipmunk;3576876:

I hope you will try again, they could let one person be the sponsor for 2 people, I think. I think you should talk to the Pastor. He would know what to do.

Thank you for you reply. I will try again, this time I’ll go to the Pastor if I come up against the same situation. Thank you again. Have a wonderful and blessed Sunday!

 

[thecoach]

Monsignor Chido often says that the longest journey a person ever has to make is the distance between the HEAD and the HEART. A lot of knowledge does not make faith, somehow it never reached your heart, or nothing would be able to take you away from the TRUTH. I would suggest you spend some time with the Blessed Sacrament, just you and Jesus, if possible and pray. And stop being sooo defensive and trust God. If we throw up road blocks along the way we will never accomplish unity… One never leaves the Catholic Church because they love it, but because they do not understand it.

I spent much time in prayer(again an assumption on your part). I loved Christ, not an institution. Love and knowledge are not the same.

 

[thecoach]

You’re right, it may be an assumption on my part. It is strictly based on my own, admittedly anecdotal, experience, and not some statistical study. But everyone that I have ever met who told me about the various things that they didn’t like/didn’t agree with about the Catholic church didn’t know what they were talking about. And this is a common experience for Catholics, from others that have shared their experience with me, so my experiences are far from unique.

I was not “pouncing” on anyone or anything, I was submitting a possible explanation based on experience. I’m not the first to note the wealth of misinformation out there about the Catholic church, since far more learned and renowned personages, such as Fulton Sheen, have spoken about the situation for decades. Yet your reaction was quite hostile. Perhaps you are reading something that is not there from your own experience and your own views?

Nothinh hostile in my posts, just seeing what is there. Perhaps your reaction needs to be scrutinzied. Oh wait, that cant be, only non-catholics are ever in error, right?

 

[MelanieAnne]

Nothinh hostile in my posts, just seeing what is there. Perhaps your reaction needs to be scrutinzied. Oh wait, that cant be, only non-catholics are ever in error, right?

This is not productive. I am not ever going to agree with bitter views of the Catholic Church. Whatever occurs to produce the hostility and bitterness is always regrettable, but it does not change the Truth of the Church. We are the Church, we, the people. It is not an institution, it is a community. According to your previous post, you left the community. That’s too bad, but arguing with you about that choice serves no purpose I choose to withdraw from pointless dialog.

 

[mikew262]

Thats a huge assumption on your part. As a former Catholic, I was VERY knowlegable of my faith, and for years was its staunchest defender. Prayer lead me to know the truth, and I left. What is amusing here is that the question asked by the OP is simply a question, yet you all feel the need to pounce on everyone answering. Speak for yourself regarding levels of knowledge.

Your profile says you are Catholic. Is that now inaccurate?

 

[5pintLutheran]

Funny, your Lutheran minister uses the same words that my Catholic priest does. How do you think it’s different?

Oh, Purgatory’s easy. We still have sin and sinful tendencies while here on earth in our human flesh. No sin can enter Heaven. The Bible says that we are changed from corruptible to incorruptible, etc… that happens in Purgatory!

Jesus says that there is rejoicing in Heaven over one sinner who repents. How would they know a sinner has repented if they can’t hear/see us?

I’d have to hear what you understand to be the Catholic “justification doctrine” to help you any there.

That’s not Catholic doctrine. I just looked at all the Catechism references to Mary and neither of those titles appear. When someone calls her co-redemptrix all they’re saying is that she agreed to bear the Redeemer in her womb, thus bringing forth (literally) our salvation in the person of Jesus Christ. Mediatrix means that she’s praying for us, just like you might pray for someone who asks you to.

Well, I’ve been out of town for the past 2 days, so I’m sorry for the late response. I’ve been reading the US Catholic Chatechism for Adults since I’ve been gone, and it’s helped me gain insight.

I can see that when we celebrate the Eucharist (even though RCC says ours is not valid) that it makes sense as a sacrifice. I just don’t know about a RE-sacrifice during the mass. I think during communion, we are participating in the ONE holy sacrifice made by Christ on the cross, for the forgiveness of sins.

Guess I’ll have to talk to a priest on purgatory, b/c I still don’t see it in scripture, with the possible exception of matt 12:31.

As for Mary… Yes she did have a role in the redemption of mankind, but ONLY by giving birth to our Lord. So if you put it that way, I can wholeheartedly agree. When I hear the term “co-redemptrix”, it makes me think that she is parallel to Jesus, or has a divine essence about her. I don’t think she was divine, but do agree that she played a role in our redemption through Christ.

It’s been explained to me by a Catholic that you can’t work your way into heaven, but faith is accompanied by works. By the reformed perspective… Anything we add to faith in Jesus Christ (works) is like saying that his sacrifice was not enough to merit us heaven. I know, I know, Catholics have all heard this before, but I pray that it can be explained to me in such a way that justification is not seen as incomplete. I’m not a believer in OSAS (once saved always saved), and have gotten attacked from protestants on this as well. :coffeeread:

 

[seetiger33]

If you are catholic what is the real reason you say you are and act like the damned world?

 

[backwoods_blues]

**If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2 **/

Note: The first thread titled, “If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?” was closed because it had exceeded the maximum amount of posts (1,000). Continue your remarks on this topic, here.

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by Memaw:

Monsignor Chido often says that the longest journey a person ever has to make is the distance between the HEAD and the HEART. A lot of knowledge does not make faith, somehow it never reached your heart, or nothing would be able to take you away from the TRUTH. I would suggest you spend some time with the Blessed Sacrament, just you and Jesus, if possible and pray. And stop being sooo defensive and trust God. If we throw up road blocks along the way we will never accomplish unity… One never leaves the Catholic Church because they love it, but because they do not understand it.

People don’t leave the Roman Catholic Church because they don’t understand it; they leave the Roman Catholic Church because of various reasons, with only misinformation and lack of information as possible contributing factors, and then only in certain cases.

Some people leave because of reasons of trust. Look at the number of Roman Catholics who left the Roman Catholic Church after the liturgical changes of Vatican II. Or, the Catholics sexually abused who left because they could no longer trust the hierarchy (I’m not defending these reasons).

Other people leave the Roman Catholic Church because they encounter God elsewhere. They have a personal experience with God they believe they did not or could not have in Roman Catholicism. This could be spurred by major life trauma, when a friend introduces a person to evangelical Christianity; it could happen in a variety of other ways as well.

Yet others leave because of a journey of faith–through prayer they realize that what the Roman Catholic Church claims is not necessarily true.

Perhaps if some people were to have a greater knowledge of what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, then they may not leave it. But the fact is, a lot of people don’t leave the Church because of a lack of information, but because they are drawn elsewhere. There’s a book: Close to God, Far From Rome (or perhaps the title is inverted), in which 50 Roman Catholic priests give their story for why they converted. Many of these priests were well-educated, even at Pontifical universities, and several were Jesuits and Dominicans, They probably knew what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, but they disagreed with it nonetheless.

For my part, my becoming Orthodox was a gradual process that involved prayer and learning. I became familiar with the Eastern Catholic churches, and I attended one for about two years. During this time, I realized that the “Rome alone” attitude is not and was not the proper attitude of the Church. For an idea of where I’m coming from, take a look at Archbishop Elias’ Zoghby’s works. (He was Melkite Catholic, so he won’t corrupt your mind )

 

[w_stewart]

The Orthodox Church is the Catholic Church.

The Papist church (i.e. The Roman Catholic Church) did not come into being until much later than 33 AD, although the Roman Catholic Church today traces its succession to about this time (just as do the Orthodox bishops).

This is unfounded claim by anti-papists. The name “Orthodox” was adopted by the anti-papists in the East to distinguish themselves from the Catholic Church led by the successors of Peter. And that became final only after the Great Schism. The Catholic Church had already existed prior to that.

 

[w_stewart]

I spent much time in prayer(again an assumption on your part). I loved Christ, not an institution. Love and knowledge are not the same.

It is quite saddening claiming you love Christ but you do not love the institution he built. You love Christ but obviously you do not love the Church, the teaching society, he founded.