If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2

[Pixie_Dust]

Well, as you can see by my login name that I’m Lutheran (duh), so I guess you can say that I’m halfway or 3/4 the way to Rome, lol. Lemme see…

The real reason for me not being Roman Catholic…

1. Don’t agree with the sacrifice of the mass, even though I believe in the real presence (One sacrifice for all).

Funny, your Lutheran minister uses the same words that my Catholic priest does. How do you think it’s different?

1. Can’t see concrete evidence for Purgatory in scripture, even though it’s been explained to me before.

Oh, Purgatory’s easy. We still have sin and sinful tendencies while here on earth in our human flesh. No sin can enter Heaven. The Bible says that we are changed from corruptible to incorruptible, etc… that happens in Purgatory!

1. Asking the saints for prayers. We don’t really know if they
   hear us or not.

Jesus says that there is rejoicing in Heaven over one sinner who repents. How would they know a sinner has repented if they can’t hear/see us?

1. Justification doctrine seems to be a little off to me, even though
   it’s been kindof explained to me.

I’d have to hear what you understand to be the Catholic “justification doctrine” to help you any there.

1. Doctrine of Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix, etc…

That’s not Catholic doctrine. I just looked at all the Catechism references to Mary and neither of those titles appear. When someone calls her co-redemptrix all they’re saying is that she agreed to bear the Redeemer in her womb, thus bringing forth (literally) our salvation in the person of Jesus Christ. Mediatrix means that she’s praying for us, just like you might pray for someone who asks you to.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I always thought the idea of purgatory was easier to understand when I realized that it is for US. It’s not a punishment, because Jesus has already paid the price for our sin. It’s a cleansing. God doesn’t need us to be cleansed, we do. We need it in order to be able to be in the presence of God.

In our lifetime we attend many special events ~ weddings are a good example. We prepare ourselves for those events, whether we are getting married ourselves or simply attending the marriage of a friend or family member. We bathe and dress up and “get ready” for the event. That’s how I see purgatory ~ “getting ready” to be in the presence of God, the most awesome event you will ever experience.

 

[Memaw]

Well, as you can see by my login name that I’m Lutheran (duh), so I guess you can say that I’m halfway or 3/4 the way to Rome, lol. Lemme see…

The real reason for me not being Roman Catholic…

1. Don’t agree with the sacrifice of the mass, even though I believe in the real presence (One sacrifice for all).
2. Can’t see concrete evidence for Purgatory in scripture, even though it’s been explained to me before.
3. Asking the saints for prayers. We don’t really know if they
   hear us or not.
4. Justification doctrine seems to be a little off to me, even though
   it’s been kindof explained to me.
5. Doctrine of Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix, etc…

That’s all I can think of right now. I know that some of these things probably haven’t been properly explained to me, but I’m still learning. Pax. :coffeeread:

HI, I will try to ans. some of your concerns.

1. You can’t have the Real Presence without the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It is the words of Consecration that changes the bread and the wine into the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ, when the validly ordained priest says the same words, that Jesus said at the Last Supper. Jesus said, "My flesh is food indeed and my blood is drink indeed, eat my Flesh and drink my Blood for Eternal Life. John 6

2, in the OT, it says, It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead. There must be a reason for that or it wouldn’t be in the Sacred Scriptures. Some Bible passages to read are, Rev.21-27, Mt. 5-26, Mt. 12- 32, Mt.12-26, 2 Macc 12-44-46, 1Cor. 3-15, 2 Tim 1-16-18. The word purgatory comes from the word purge, meaning cleansing, attonement for sin. Nothing unclean can enter Heaven, wouldn’t you want to be fully free to enter Heaven? I look forward to Purgatory, joyfully.

1. All Heaven rejoices over one repentant sinner, that tells us lots. Catholics believe in the communion of saints, meaning death does not destroy the bond between heaven and us. we can pray for the Holy souls in Purgatory and those there and in Heaven can pray for us. Praying to the Saints, Blessed Mother and Angels, simply means talking to them and asking for their prayers. It is Loving one another.

4.You’ll have to explain what you mean by that??

5 This is not a doctrine but simply means that Mary co-operated with God in bringing about our redemption by saying YES to God and bringing our Savior to us. Without her co-operation, where would we be?? And her co-operation was an act of her free will just as Eve’s was an act of her free will. Thats why Mary is called the New Eve. The first Eve did not co-operate with God, but Mary did.

I suggest you watch The Journey Home on the Catholic Cable Network, EWTN, it comes on Monday evening at 7 pm CST. Hearing how others have made the journey might help you. Also if you go to any Catholic Book Store and get books on the Early Church Fathers you will see how the Catholic Mass is described there. There is a 3 volume set by William Jurgens, The Faith of the Early Fathers, that is very good and easy to read. Catholic Answers can help you too. They have a question and Answer forum that would help answer your questions.
I hope you are watching the Pope here in the US. That is an excellent close up of the Catholic Faith. I hope this helps, God Bless and prayers.

 

[happygal]

Good threat, why am I not a catholic? God have not make a way for me to be there yet
I attended mass couple of times, although not on many occasions I could hear what the priest was preaching, but I simply love the homily. Went for RCIA, was kind of upset by a Priest’s reaction after I asked him about difference between Christianity and Catholicism. I simply cannot understand why he became so impatient? Am not a pious Christian who bombed him with many questions, but just a baby Christian who don’t even know much asking him to explain some difference, someone who is rather green to Christianity needs help to understand better, yet; help was rude and unwelcoming. Therefore, if that’s the way Catholics evangelize, upholding their own righteousness to proclaim their steadfast love for God, then, thanks but no thanks. Because I don’t want to be ended up like that and treated others the same way like what I had experienced. Knowing the fullest of God and holding the only “proclaimed truth” does not make anyone superior among others. Having the right attitude to spread God’s teaching and touches the heart of others by your acts are truly God’s spirit. Being righteous, yet gentle and not potent shall wins the lost.

 

[Memaw]

Good threat, why am I not a catholic? God have not make a way for me to be there yet
I attended mass couple of times, although not on many occasions I could hear what the priest was preaching, but I simply love the homily. Went for RCIA, was kind of upset by a Priest’s reaction after I asked him about difference between Christianity and Catholicism. I simply cannot understand why he became so impatient? Am not a pious Christian who bombed him with many questions, but just a baby Christian who don’t even know much asking him to explain some difference, someone who is rather green to Christianity needs help to understand better, yet; help was rude and unwelcoming. Therefore, if that’s the way Catholics evangelize, upholding their own righteousness to proclaim their steadfast love for God, then, thanks but no thanks. Because I don’t want to be ended up like that and treated others the same way like what I had experienced. Knowing the fullest of God and holding the only “proclaimed truth” does not make anyone superior among others. Having the right attitude to spread God’s teaching and touches the heart of others by your acts are truly God’s spirit. Being righteous, yet gentle and not potent shall wins the lost.

Please don’t give up on Christ’s Church, just because a priest wasn’t as patient as he should have been. Jesus established HIS Catholic, (universal) Church, and it has been here for 2,000 years and will be till the end of time. It has survived much worse than an impatient priest. So hang in there and find another priest to talk to. Don’t worry, you won’t “end up like that.” Having the right attitude is very important thats for sure but its the Church that has the fullness of TRUTH. Catholicism is the original Christianity, it was the only Christian Church until the protestant reformation about 500 years ago. Continue to attend Mass and you will see how important the Bible is to us. Always remember, Our Lord loves you and wants the fullness of Faith for you. Hope this helps, God Bless and prayers for your journey. Memaw

 

[happygal]

Please don’t give up on Christ’s Church, just because a priest wasn’t as patient as he should have been. Jesus established HIS Catholic, (universal) Church, and it has been here for 2,000 years and will be till the end of time. It has survived much worse than an impatient priest. So hang in there and find another priest to talk to. Don’t worry, you won’t “end up like that.” Having the right attitude is very important thats for sure but its the Church that has the fullness of TRUTH. Catholicism is the original Christianity, it was the only Christian Church until the protestant reformation about 500 years ago. Continue to attend Mass and you will see how important the Bible is to us. Always remember, Our Lord loves you and wants the fullness of Faith for you. Hope this helps, God Bless and prayers for your journey. Memaw

Hi Mew

Thanks for the great encouragement. Incident happened 2yrs ago, although at that point of time, i am extremely angry and upset with the priest. However when i posted out my bad experience here doesn’t make any good to me because this showed that i only remembered the bad thing of what others had inflicted upon me bad me…, i never stop going to Mass despite the incident. But then again, i am still exploring the beauty of catholicism and if God really move me back to CC, i will definitely go.

Moreover i am so excited to see the Pope coming to Sydney in July for World Youth Conference and signed up as a volunteer, therefore i hope God will bring me closer to experience the beauty of catholicism…

Thanks

 

[Memaw]

Hi Mew

Thanks for the great encouragement. Incident happened 2yrs ago, although at that point of time, i am extremely angry and upset with the priest. However when i posted out my bad experience here doesn’t make any good to me because this showed that i only remembered the bad thing of what others had inflicted upon me bad me…, i never stop going to Mass despite the incident. But then again, i am still exploring the beauty of catholicism and if God really move me back to CC, i will definitely go.

Moreover i am so excited to see the Pope coming to Sydney in July for World Youth Conference and signed up as a volunteer, therefore i hope God will bring me closer to experience the beauty of catholicism…

Thanks

Wonderful, I hope you watched the Pope here in US. I know God is bringing you closer and I am happy you are seeing the beauty of Catholicism, instead of the faults and weakness of her children. We are not all saintly as we should be but then thats true of all walks of life. I am thankful we do have the Sacraments to help us in our journey thru life. God Bless, and carry on, Keep us posted, ok.

 

[Pinkyyy]

here’s the truth about why I am not Catholic. I will try to list what i can think of off the bat

1. I don’t think Mary was a perpetual virgin - she had other children (I believe)
2. I believe eucharist is symbolic
3. i don’t believe birth control is wrong (well, I believe some are, some aren’t).
4. I don’t like a sometimes catholic belief that protestants will go to hell and aren’t christians
5. while on the subject of hell, I don’t believe in pergatory
6. I don’t believe in pergatory because if God forgives, he forgets the sin and does not hold it against the person. Sometimes there are EARTLY consequences against a person for sin, but not from God. You either go to Hell or Heaven when you die - no pergatory.
7. from number 6, you can see I don’t believe you have to have good works. If you repent and are sincere, God will forgive.

This is all I got for right now. Maybe I’ll have more later.

 

[Pinkyyy]

ohh, and…

1. I think the so-called catholic annulment is nonsense. Most of the time it is just another term for a catholic who doesn’t want to live up to their responsibility anymore and want a way out so they can marry “the right one” later. Why don’t we just call it what it really is? A divorce and remarriage - not a mistake that was annulled on a technicality. God sees right through those kinds of annulments. Yes, there are “annulments” I support - one was guilted into marriage, etc - but not a I just don’t love you anymore kind of stuff.

 

[Pinkyyy]

Singinbeauty;3434046:

But all protestant Churches were built off of protests were they not ? Do you know of any that does not have it’s beginning or roots in protest of the Cathlic Church and it’s Sacred Scripture, Sacred Traditions, Or Sacred Teachings?
For without that why would there be protestant Churches?

Exactly, so the argument that Protestants are not from God (that the RCC is the “correct church” because it came from God) is not correct. So did protestant churches.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

ohh, and…

1. I think the so-called catholic annulment is nonsense. Most of the time it is just another term for a catholic who doesn’t want to live up to their responsibility anymore and want a way out so they can marry “the right one” later. Why don’t we just call it what it really is? A divorce and remarriage - not a mistake that was annulled on a technicality. God sees right through those kinds of annulments. Yes, there are “annulments” I support - one was guilted into marriage, etc - but not a I just don’t love you anymore kind of stuff.

If “I just don’t love you anymore” is the only reason brought forth, an annulment would not be granted.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Pinkyyy, I am just curious… While I am not going to confirm the idea that Catholics believe that “protestants will go to hell and aren’t christians” - because I don’t think that way - I would be interested to know what you think of Protestants who say that Catholics are not Christians, or that they are Pagans, and that Catholics are going to hell. Do you consider that wrong?

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

**If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2 **

Note: The first thread titled, “If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?” was closed because it had exceeded the maximum amount of posts (1,000). Continue your remarks on this topic, here.

Your post assumes much, even if it’s based on your subjective experiences.

First, I’m not Catholic because I wasn’t born one.

Second, my wife (if I converted) would not agree to have our children taught or brought up as Catholics.

Third, after studying, meeting the RCIA director and so forth, I could not honestly say in the end that I could submit to the Pope and his teachings without fear of losing my own individual freedom to reject something I could not agree with.

Fourth, I don’t believe birth control and other moral issues are mortal sins.

Fifth, there seemed to be a focus more on rules than living the faith - on submission rather than conscience.

I’ve been married to the one and only same lady for 13 years. I’m not an alcoholic and as a matter of fact, I don’t drink at all. I take care of my family and love them. So, my reasons are not because I want to stay in a sinful lifestyle. It is for theological reasons and family reasons.

I’m not really sure you care why. You seem to just want to show us how wrong we are for not converting even if circumstances for us are difficult if not impossible, which you have no way of knowing.

I value Catholicism and even agree with the Real Presence, purgatory, Marian doctrine and other issues. I just don’t believe all of them and therefore cannot for conscience sake submit to a church that I don’t agree with.

Peace…

MW

 

[Pinkyyy]

Pinkyyy, I am just curious… While I am not going to confirm the idea that Catholics believe that “protestants will go to hell and aren’t christians” - because I don’t think that way - I would be interested to know what you think of Protestants who say that Catholics are not Christians, or that they are Pagans, and that Catholics are going to hell. Do you consider that wrong?

Yes Melanie, I do not agree at all with Protestants who say Catholics are not Christian - I can not see for the life of me where they can even come up with that. There really is so much about the Catholic church I agree with - but there are also reasons I don’t. I have been to Catholic mass for years with my husband. Maybe one day I’ll get to being a Catholic. Right now my dh doesn’t see any need for blessing the marriage, and I still have questions I guess. I guess that is another thing I am unsure about , I don’t see how we are not in a marriage recognized by God. Just because it wasn’t in a Catholic church doesn’t mean it’s not real. In fact, because we have a child and have marital relations and have committed to marriage, and are Christians, I view our marriage as very “religious” and “real”.

And as for the other poster who had responded about annulment - I even had a discussion about this with the parish priest and he even admitted that Catholicism needs to get a handle on these annulments and put restricions on them. I have seen it a lot in the catholic churches I have been too - women with children left for another woman and their husband’s granted “annulments” becuase of some reason - I just don’t get it. Even here i see so many annuled and re-married Catholics. If the Catholic church is true, and they have to go through marriage prep, etc - how can there possible be so many annulments - meaning the marriage wasnt valid in the first place? I just don’t by that.

Thanks for responding.

 

[DHC1Chipmunk]

**If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2 **

The real reason that I am not currently a Catholic is because I have never continued all the way through the RCIA process. And, last time, it was because I needed a sponsor and did not have one (one was not available at the church).

 

[w_stewart]

I was led to Christ by a member of a nondenominational church that follows the Bible.

And what is your assurance that such member was leading you to Christ? Just because he is claiming to be following the Bible?

 

[Memaw]

Your post assumes much, even if it’s based on your subjective experiences.

First, I’m not Catholic because I wasn’t born one.

Second, my wife (if I converted) would not agree to have our children taught or brought up as Catholics.

Third, after studying, meeting the RCIA director and so forth, I could not honestly say in the end that I could submit to the Pope and his teachings without fear of losing my own individual freedom to reject something I could not agree with.

Fourth, I don’t believe birth control and other moral issues are mortal sins.

Fifth, there seemed to be a focus more on rules than living the faith - on submission rather than conscience.

I’ve been married to the one and only same lady for 13 years. I’m not an alcoholic and as a matter of fact, I don’t drink at all. I take care of my family and love them. So, my reasons are not because I want to stay in a sinful lifestyle. It is for theological reasons and family reasons.

I’m not really sure you care why. You seem to just want to show us how wrong we are for not converting even if circumstances for us are difficult if not impossible, which you have no way of knowing.

I value Catholicism and even agree with the Real Presence, purgatory, Marian doctrine and other issues. I just don’t believe all of them and therefore cannot for conscience sake submit to a church that I don’t agree with.

Peace…

MW

Hi MW,

First,
No one is born a Catholic, the journey starts at Baptism, and continues for the rest of life. In Heaven we are all going to be Catholic as we will all know the TRUTH.

Second,
Your first obligation is to follow the TRUTH and trust God to work out the rest. Your example of learning and loving the beauty of the Catholic Faith will be a wonderful example for your wife, (no pressure, just truth),

Third,
If you can truly submit to Christ, the Pope will be NO problem as he is the Vicar of Christ, the Servant of servants. Jesus knows we need someone to lead us in HIS truths and the Pope does that. I hope you hear at least some of his talks while here in the US.
In the Catholic Church you don’t loose your “individual freedom”, You find it !! Jesus said, “The TRUTH will set you free” The Catholic Church has the fullness of the truth and is protected by the Holy Spirit too safeguard the truth in the Catholic Church till the end of time.

Fourth,
Artificial Birth Control goes against the Natural Law of God. It is unnatural for couples to put obstacles in God’s plan for life. Married love is God’s plan and we have no right to interfere with that. Abstinence is the only Natural way to avoid pregnancy, And it is healthful, no side effects. No one ever died from abstinence. That is why the Church approves Natural Family Planning.

Fifth,
The rules are there to help us live our Faith in harmony with our Creator. A properly formed conscience doesn’t want to go against God. The Church always respects the free will but she teaches that there are consequences if we do decide to go against God’s will. Either we are with HIM or we are against HIM. It is our choice.

Sixth,

Your reasons should be because you want the fullness of the TRUTH, all the sacraments and graces that Christ gave to HIS ONE, HOLY CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC Church. All this division in christianity is NOT God’s will. If you study Church History, you will see that the protestant reformation started a downhill slide of self interpretation and division, me, me, me, what I think, what I want, what I believe, not what Christ wants. Division, Division and more division, 40,000 different denominations of it.

Do we care, of course we doooo. I would love to see everyone on this earth to follow Jesus Christ in the fullness of the TRUTH. HE is the Way, The Truth, and the Life. God Bless, and prayers, Memaw

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Hi MW,

First,
No one is born a Catholic, the journey starts at Baptism, and continues for the rest of life. In Heaven we are all going to be Catholic as we will all know the TRUTH.

And that baptism begins as an infant - so it’s not very far from birth to baptism. Also, since neither one of my parents were Catholic, it was practically assured that I could not be myself.

Second,
Your first obligation is to follow the TRUTH and trust God to work out the rest. Your example of learning and loving the beauty of the Catholic Faith will be a wonderful example for your wife, (no pressure, just truth),

What that truth is happens to be the crux of the problem.

Third, If you can truly submit to Christ, the Pope will be NO problem as he is the Vicar of Christ, the Servant of servants. Jesus knows we need someone to lead us in HIS truths and the Pope does that. I hope you hears at least some of his talks while here in the US.
In the Catholic Church you don’t loose your “individual freedom”, You find it !! Jesus said, “The TRUTH will set you free” The Catholic Church has the fullness of the truth and is protected by the Holy Spirit too safeguard the truth in the Catholic Church till the end of time.

I can’t at present submit to a man who speaks infallibly for Christ. I am interested in his talks. I respect him a lot. I just don’t follow him.

Fourth,
Artificial Birth Control goes against the Natural Law of God. It is unnatural for couples to put obstacles in God’s plan for life. Married love is God’s plan and we have no right to interfere with that. Abstinence is the only Natural way to avoid pregnancy, And it is healthful, no side effects. No one ever died from abstinence. That is why the Church approves Natural Family Planning.

I simply don’t agree that it is. The Catholic Church has defined it as so, but I have no reason to accept its proclamation either through reason or from my reading of Holy Scripture.

Peace…

MW

 

[Memaw]

And that baptism begins as an infant - so it’s not very far from birth to baptism. Also, since neither one of my parents were Catholic, it was practically assured that I could not be myself.

What that truth is happens to be the crux of the problem.

I can’t at present submit to a man who speaks infallibly for Christ. I am interested in his talks. I respect him a lot. I just don’t follow him.

I simply don’t agree that it is. The Catholic Church has defined it as so, but I have no reason to accept its proclamation either through reason or from my reading of Holy Scripture.

Peace…

MW

Ok then try reading, Psalms, 127: 3-5 & Gen 38: 9-10, & Rom 1:25-27,& 1Tim.2
; 11-15, Acts 5:1-11, &Gal. 6:7 1Cor. 6:19-20. When your done with those, I can give you some more. Protestants claim they read the Bible but they only see what they want to see in it & skip the rest.

 

[mikew262]

And what is your assurance that such member was leading you to Christ?

And what is your assurance?