If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2

[Memaw]

To my knowlege Danish Lutheranism is quite far from Luther’s own ideas… If he was here today he would probably beg the Catholic Church to take him back because the areas that were first taken in with protestantism are today infected with protestant liberalism and self-proclaimed popes that look more up to Bultmann than to Luther… even the serious minded are not heard today but are removed to little towns where they hide away…
And whereas you might not be afraid of your bishop (Indeed you should join a church where you would and could obey the Bishop… as one of the early fathers wrote:" The Church is where the Bishop is"… you will see if your bishops are at all faithful to the Word they claim to preach… If they make up their own truth then you really should not work for them…
Already Luther saw the huge weakness of his new founded belief system when he saw the chaos that started prevailing where no one really had authority or tradition backing up their statements… According to what I have heard Luther was very afflicted in his last days seeing that what had started out well intended had become a movement of chaos… the staff had been broken into splinters and already his own contemporaries made other ideas to rival his own.
Anyway… You might stand up and play Luther to your bishop… but I dont need to be a prophet in order to tell you that your congregation council will make your life miserable for you if you start telling them they cant receive the eucharist… They wont fire you… they will make you miserable to the point where you have to leave. Think about that… you are young… dont go ruining your life because of your tendency to be an uncontrolled whirlwind. You know I am saying the truth.

Shalom from Grace

Years ago, I knew an old German priest, that had read and studied (in Germany) about Martin Luther, and you are right, he did regret what he had done and the trouble that followed. but when the ball started rolling down the hill, he couldn’t stop it. Fr. Wilwarding also read the writings of a close friend of Martin Luther’s that said as Luther lay dying he ask for a true Catholic priest but no one would get one for him. So this friend brought a Catholic Priest in “under cover” and Luther had the Last Rites of the Catholic Church before he died.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Yes, it is an indirect slam against non-Catholics (I’m talking about the OP’s question, the thread topic). It infers that non-Catholic Christians are somehow less worthy than Catholics. If I were a Protestant, I would certainly take offense.

Mike, I read the OP’s intention differently. Many converts to Catholicism, such as Scott Hahn and Tim Staples say they were vehemently anitCatholic. But as they began studying Christianity and the early Church Fathers, they began to see the truth of Catholicism. Marcus Grodi chuckles sympathetically when a guest on his show says, “Well, I began reading the ECF’s.” He adds, “That’s a dangerous road.” Jimmy is inviting a discussion of teachings of the Early Christian Church and the development of Christianity over 2,000 years.

I myself knew little about the ECF’s before I started listening to EWTN about 5 years ago.

God Bless

 

[Memaw]

Mike, I read the OP’s intention differently. Many converts to Catholicism, such as Scott Hahn and Tim Staples say they were vehemently anitCatholic. But as they began studying Christianity and the early Church Fathers, they began to see the truth of Catholicism. Marcus Grodi chuckles sympathetically when a guest on his show says, “Well, I began reading the ECF’s.” He adds, “That’s a dangerous road.” Jimmy is inviting a discussion of teachings of the Early Christian Church and the development of Christianity over 2,000 years.

I myself knew little about the ECF’s before I started listening to EWTN about 5 years ago.

God Bless

Jimmy who? and how do we get in on this discussion??

 

[Memaw]

Eastern Orthodox are allowed to receive Roman Catholic Communion because the Eastern Orthodox have true orders in the eyes of the Catholic Church, whereas the Anglicans do not have true orders.

The Eastern Orthodox are not allowed to receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church and Catholics are not allowed to receive Communion in the Orthodox Church, (except under rear and unusual circumstances). While the Catholic Church recognizes they still have apostolic succession and valid sacraments, they are still in schism and not in union with the Catholic Church. Hopefully they are working on that and coming closer and closer to the day they will return to full unity with the Catholic Church. But in the meantime we pray and wait but we cannot receive Holy Communion is a schismatic church.(Unless we are dying and there is NO Catholic Priest available or if we are so far from a Catholic church it would be impossible to get there. those circumstances would be very rare tho.)

The Anglican church broke the Apostolic Succession after King Henry the VII took over as head of the Church in England.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Jimmy who? and how do we get in on this discussion??

Jimmy B, the OP!

 

[GraceDK]

Years ago, I knew an old German priest, that had read and studied (in Germany) about Martin Luther, and you are right, he did regret what he had done and the trouble that followed. but when the ball started rolling down the hill, he couldn’t stop it. Fr. Wilwarding also read the writings of a close friend of Martin Luther’s that said as Luther lay dying he ask for a true Catholic priest but no one would get one for him. So this friend brought a Catholic Priest in “under cover” and Luther had the Last Rites of the Catholic Church before he died.

Hey brother…
That sounds like a good story… I see why someone would make up such a story… hehe… However, if you have any evidence to back it up that sure would be grand

 

[mnicklin]

The Eastern Orthodox are not allowed to receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church and Catholics are not allowed to receive Communion in the Orthodox Church, (except under rear and unusual circumstances). While the Catholic Church recognizes they still have apostolic succession and valid sacraments, they are still in schism and not in union with the Catholic Church. Hopefully they are working on that and coming closer and closer to the day they will return to full unity with the Catholic Church. But in the meantime we pray and wait but we cannot receive Holy Communion is a schismatic church.(Unless we are dying and there is NO Catholic Priest available or if we are so far from a Catholic church it would be impossible to get there. those circumstances would be very rare tho.)

The Anglican church broke the Apostolic Succession after King Henry the VII took over as head of the Church in England.

You are incorrect, please look at the back page of the Missal next time you are in your church. They are allowed.

You are also incorrect that we broke apostolic succession. The bishop that was present during the break away did not lose his apostolic succession.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

You are incorrect, please look at the back page of the Missal next time you are in your church. They are allowed.

Yes, the Catholic Church allows the Orthodox to receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church, but the Orthodox Church forbids its members to receive Holy Communion anywhere but in an Orthodox Church. Make sense?

 

[Memaw]

Hey brother…
That sounds like a good story… I see why someone would make up such a story… hehe… However, if you have any evidence to back it up that sure would be grand

Only the word of a very holy, old priest from Germany, that studied Luther. I believe it because I believe him. He was a Jesuit and in his 90’s when he died. You can laugh all you want but I hope Luther did make his peace with God before he died. Remember the thief on the Cross.

 

[Memaw]

You are incorrect, please look at the back page of the Missal next time you are in your church. They are allowed.

You are also incorrect that we broke apostolic succession. The bishop that was present during the break away did not lose his apostolic succession.

That IS what I said, They are not allowed to receive Communion in the Catholic Church.

 

[Memaw]

You are incorrect, please look at the back page of the Missal next time you are in your church. They are allowed.

You are also incorrect that we broke apostolic succession. The bishop that was present during the break away did not lose his apostolic succession.

Read the Papal Bull, Apostolicae Cure (Sept.,13, 1896) which declared Anglican orders to be “absolutely null and void,” because of defect in (1) the form in the rite of ordaining and (2) the intention of the one ordaining.

 

[mnicklin]

Read the Papal Bull, Apostolicae Cure (Sept.,13, 1896) which declared Anglican orders to be “absolutely null and void,” because of defect in (1) the form in the rite of ordaining and (2) the intention of the one ordaining.

Thats all you are going to give me for a reply?! Because the Pope said so. Come on, of course he is going to say that. The two churches weren’t exactly getting along then. Why are they null and void? Thats what gets me, you take what the Pope says and don’t ask why.

Have you ever wondered how the bible was ever translated from Latin? Check out this link and see what the pope does to get back at John. Are you going to tell me this isn’t arogant. greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/

How about the Catholic Mass that wasn’t put into a language that the congregation could understand until the 1960’s. I’ll bet that people knew exactly what the Eucharist was about then. Ask a Catholic Priest why they ring bells during mass. He will tell you that during the time of Latin Mass it was to get the peoples attention to let them know something was about to happen.

The point I am trying to make is that the RC has a long history of not releasing all of the information. If you want to continue being in the dark, than so be it. I still respect you as a Christian. Please don’t judge me and see me as someone who is lacking wisdom. I like what was stated earlier. I believe that when we get to heaven there will be a lot of Christians from all different denominations. Not just Roman Catholics. Which makes me wonder, do you actually believe that you will only see Roman Catholics in heaven? Listen to what all denominations have to say and you will begin to know God more than you ever have.

I left the RC because I started asking why. I started to read the bible and referencing history.

 

[celticcrusader]

I am sorry to hear you left because you read history, which history? the history to make your argument right? or the history written by JW’s or Mormons or ect.ect. to make thier history look right? or have you studied history written in Japan on WWII? That made them look right? what I am saying history is skewed. it depends on the writers view?

 

[Memaw]

Thats all you are going to give me for a reply?! Because the Pope said so. Come on, of course he is going to say that. The two churches weren’t exactly getting along then. Why are they null and void? Thats what gets me, you take what the Pope says and don’t ask why.

Have you ever wondered how the bible was ever translated from Latin? Check out this link and see what the pope does to get back at John. Are you going to tell me this isn’t arogant. greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/

How about the Catholic Mass that wasn’t put into a language that the congregation could understand until the 1960’s. I’ll bet that people knew exactly what the Eucharist was about then. Ask a Catholic Priest why they ring bells during mass. He will tell you that during the time of Latin Mass it was to get the peoples attention to let them know something was about to happen.

The point I am trying to make is that the RC has a long history of not releasing all of the information. If you want to continue being in the dark, than so be it. I still respect you as a Christian. Please don’t judge me and see me as someone who is lacking wisdom. I like what was stated earlier. I believe that when we get to heaven there will be a lot of Christians from all different denominations. Not just Roman Catholics. Which makes me wonder, do you actually believe that you will only see Roman Catholics in heaven? Listen to what all denominations have to say and you will begin to know God more than you ever have.

I left the RC because I started asking why. I started to read the bible and referencing history.

Yep, the Pope said so, after extensive study, and he is infallible when speaking on Faith, (what we believe)and Morals,( how we live that belief.) We trust Jesus Christ when HE said HIS Church would never teach error. The Gates of Hell shall NOT prevail against it. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and has a 2,000 year history of teaching the truths Christ gave it… What other denomination can say that???. Do you honestly think God would use a King that had 6 wives, (killed 2 of them), to start a new denomination. Read your history please.
I was a Catholic all my life, I’m in my 70’s now, and I knew what the priest was saying and doing, We had missals with it in English on one side. Most Catholics were taught Latin in school. And the bells were used to announce the coming of Our Lord on the Alter, (sorta like trumpets). The high point in the Mass. They are still used in most Catholic Churches, your trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
I believe a lot of Christians will be in Heaven too, but I know when they get there they will all be Catholics, for they will know the TRUTH. Only the TRUTH in Heaven. I have NEVER said only Catholics will GO to Heaven, but I did say everyone that gets to Heaven will be a Catholic once they get there. I do wish some would read WHAT I said, not what you THINK I said.

 

[mnicklin]

Yep, the Pope said so, after extensive study, and he is infallible when speaking on Faith, (what we believe)and Morals,( how we live that belief.) We trust Jesus Christ when HE said HIS Church would never teach error. The Gates of Hell shall NOT prevail against it. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and has a 2,000 year history of teaching the truths Christ gave it… What other denomination can say that???. Do you honestly think God would use a King that had 6 wives, (killed 2 of them), to start a new denomination. Read your history please.
I was a Catholic all my life, I’m in my 70’s now, and I knew what the priest was saying and doing, We had missals with it in English on one side. Most Catholics were taught Latin in school. And the bells were used to announce the coming of Our Lord on the Alter, (sorta like trumpets). The high point in the Mass. They are still used in most Catholic Churches, your trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
I believe a lot of Christians will be in Heaven too, but I know when they get there they will all be Catholics, for they will know the TRUTH. Only the TRUTH in Heaven. I have NEVER said only Catholics will GO to Heaven, but I did say everyone that gets to Heaven will be a Catholic once they get there. I do wish some would read WHAT I said, not what you THINK I said.

Your right we should all remember the six that a King killed and ignore the over thirty thousand that a Pope killed. A Pope of the very church that you claim God is protecting. Or should we also recall how corrupt the Catholic Church was. I trust Jesus Christ as well. What you have stated here proved my very statement that the RC can be extremely arrogant.

 

[donmaximuso27]

Your right we should all remember the six that a King killed and ignore the over thirty thousand that a Pope killed. A Pope of the very church that you claim God is protecting. Or should we also recall how corrupt the Catholic Church was. I trust Jesus Christ as well. What you have stated here proved my very statement that the RC can be extremely arrogant.

The Church is infallible regarding faith and morals. A Pope committing murder or any other sin for that matter does not involve teaching doctrine of faith and morals. Infallibility only refers to teaching faith and morals, it has nothing to do with sinlessness. Is the Catholic Church corrupt? Regarding sin, and the failure of human nature to be perfect, the Catholic Church is corrupt along with every other faith. However, regarding absolute truth in faith and morals, and a Christ-given apostolic authority, the Catholic Church is not and never will be corrupt.

 

[mnicklin]

The Church is infallible regarding faith and morals. A Pope committing murder or any other sin for that matter does not involve teaching doctrine of faith and morals. Infallibility only refers to teaching faith and morals, it has nothing to do with sinlessness. Is the Catholic Church corrupt? Regarding sin, and the failure of human nature to be perfect, the Catholic Church is corrupt along with every other faith. However, regarding absolute truth in faith and morals, and a Christ-given apostolic authority, the Catholic Church is not and never will be corrupt.

Is the Anglican Communion corupt because of a King? No, so why do Roman Catholics bring it up. Catholic faith is the original church. The original church split three ways. Why do you RCs reject this?

 

[donmaximuso27]

Is the Anglican Communion corupt because of a King? No, so why do Roman Catholics bring it up. Catholic faith is the original church. The original church split three ways. Why do you RCs reject this?

The Anglican Communion is corrupt and invalid because it was started by a king. King Henry had no authority to ordain bishops and priests, because he himself was not in line for apostlic succession. The Catholic Church was built by Christ himself, giving the authority to St. Peter. Certain people split from the Church and led communities to do the same. The Anglican Communion is theologically corrupt because of its founder, a king, who had no apostolic authority.

 

[mnicklin]

The Anglican Communion is corrupt and invalid because it was started by a king. King Henry had no authority to ordain bishops and priests, because he himself was not in line for apostlic succession. The Catholic Church was built by Christ himself, giving the authority to St. Peter. Certain people split from the Church and led communities to do the same. The Anglican Communion is theologically corrupt because of its founder, a king, who had no apostolic authority.

The Anglican Communion has Apostolic Succession thru St. Augustine. The King broke the Church of England away from Rome, however the Bishop was head of the church.

 

[donmaximuso27]

The Anglican Communion has Apostolic Succession thru St. Augustine. The King broke the Church of England away from Rome, however the Bishop was head of the church.

The Anglican Communion *had *Apostolic Succession. However, the Anglicans have made it clear through there intent of ordinations, including the ordination of women, and in the intercommunion with faiths that do not have valid orders, that they no longer care for the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Therefore, as “Apostolicae Curae” states, your sacraments are not valid.