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Matariel
Guest
No, alot of them are sincere people, who just haven’t been exposed to the Catholic Church, and only know what they’ve been told by Anti-Catholic or non-Catholic sources.
If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 3
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distracted
Guest
what is boring to me is when protestnats don’t come clean as to their real reasons for resisting truth… and they do HAVE to admit tht they do not, say… have answers for the scirtures that are Catholic-sounding… (and all of them are that)… they just ignore answer those kinds of questions… as to waht this or that passage means… and bring up other non-related stuff…
Like saying that Hitler was Catholic…
OH Please!!!
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celticcrusader
Guest
as I think Bishop Fulton Sheen said, and I will paraphrase] there is not one who hates the Church for what she teaches but there is a multitude who hate her for what they THINK she teaches!!!
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celticcrusader
Guest
I would assume that the artist painted a halo over thier picture to show they were religious or holy type of person, I have never seen a halo over any renderings of the devil. anyway if I may ,2questions what do you think of sacred tradition? and what religious discipline do you follow?
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Matariel
Guest
This luminous glow or circle is called a halo, and it denotes the sanctity of the character depicted. Often, Christ is shown with a halo with red beams of light in the cardinal directions (up, down, left, right) to denote His divinity, as with the other Hypostases of the Trinity.
Sometimes, for events like theophanies or the Transfiguration, or other instances, a halo enveloping Christ or the saints’ bodies is used to show the outpouring of glory and holiness.
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Matariel
Guest
And since the only Church that is 2,000-years-old and was founded by Christ is the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church is this Church of God you speak of!
Bravo, welcome home!
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guanophore
Guest
Yes, I can understand the hope for happiness. The difficulty I see with this approach is that it seems self centered. If each of us “finds the place where in they most likely feel” how is this different than ancient Israel “each doing what is right in his own eyes”? Rather than clinging to what God has revealed, each one looks to comfort oneself. I did this myself for many years.
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guanophore
Guest
This is probably the subject for another thread, but to the extent that it keeps you our of the Church founded by Christ, I suppose a response is appropriate. To refer to the saints who have gone on before us as “dead meat” is quite offensive to me. However, beyond that, Jesus HImself testifies that they are alive unto Him:
Luke 20:38-39
38 Now he is God not of the dead, but of the living; for to him all of them are alive."
Clearly you have been taught some errors about the resurrection. You might be interested to investigate the incorruptibles. You can google this word, and find out that we have evidence that the saints are not “dead meat”. Further, to assert that the only body to go into heaven also denies scripture, in that it is clearly stated that Elihah an Moses were taken up. Jesus took a human body to heaven to show us His intention for our bodies, and I can assure you, it is not “dead meat”!
The Assumption occurred after most of the Bible was already written, and those scriptures that reference it would not be pursuasive, in my opinion. Anyway, there are already threads which reference Jesus’ siblings and the Assumption of Mary, so if you wish to enter into discussion on them I recommend you search for them using those key words.
I am quite content to agree that Enoch did not go immediately to heaven, since the gates were shut, until opened by Christ. But, He was taken up, along with all the other holy souls that Jesus released from prison.
If these people are not alive and well, how do you account that Moses and Elijah could converse with Jesus about his impending doom?
There is a long history of miracles connected to the remians of the saints. You have been wrongly informed about Catholic faith and practice. We do not worship our brothers and sisters who have gone before us in the faith. Neither do we worship remains.
Well, this is debatable. However, for the sake of discussion, I will concede the point. I will also add that the words Trinity, hypostatic union, and Bible don’t appear in the Bible. Neither does the table of contents for the Bible, or the permission from God to observe the Sabbath on Sunday, Christmas, Easter, or any other common christian celebrations. What also does not appear in the Bible is that we are saved by accepting Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior.
I dunno.
Why did you come to a Catholic forum to ask the question?
No, I don’t think this is clear at all. If it were, there would not be so many people here arguing to the opposite, using the same scripture!
The fact that Jesus was the firstborn Son of Mary does not erase the scriptural references to brethren of our Lord.
Oh my lands!
Since Jesus and the Apostles quoted from that version, I find that sufficient “proof” for me!
The other canon was the one ratified by those who crucified the Lord. How is that an improvement?
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fbl9
Guest
guanophore"the other canon was the one ratified by those who crucified the Lord. How is that an improvement"…if one was to get fussy here it could be noted that the Jews did not actually crucified Jesus but rather merely handed Him over to be cruciifed by the romans
how could one expect those who rejected the word of God when it was flesh and walked among them to know the word of God???
how could one expect those who rejected the word of God when it was flesh and walked among them to know the word of God???
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catholiconce
Guest
Why do you compare all Protestants to alcohoilcs? What do you have to prove? All of your threads are attacking those who are not catholic. Is there some deeper reason for all this. Seems to me you try and use your former employment as a means to intimidate people. What is up with that ?
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mikew262
Guest
So you are saying someone should stay in a faith or Church where they are miserable and feel no presence of God vs. where they are happy and feel God’s presence? Am I understanding you correctly?
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
I think you’re missing the poster’s point.
IF faith was only about feeling ‘happy’ and ‘feeling the presence of God’, then certainly one should go where one felt happy and felt the presence of God, because that would be the extent of one’ faith–one’s feelings.
But can we trust feelings alone? Are they are sure and certain guide to the ultimate truth of those feelings? Can a person feel ‘happy’ when that person is doing something wrong or evil? Can a person ‘feel God’s presence’ but be deceived, and God not actually 'be there" as the person thinks He is?
I think you’ll say yes. . .there is certainly a chance that a person can be deceived, that he ‘feels happy’ even though he is doing wrong, and that he can 'think he feels God’s presence" when he does not. (After all, we are told in Scripture that the devil can present himself as an angel of light).
So what is the point? Not that we ‘feel’ happy or ‘miserable’, or ‘feel God’s presence’ at a given time or ‘not feel’ it. . .
What matters is whether we are doing God’s will (even if we 'feel miserable while doing it) or whether we are worshipping God in spirit and in truth (whether we ‘feel his presence’ or not).
If we are wrong, if we are not in God’s ‘one church’ and if we are not following His Truth–then no matter how much we ‘feel happy’ and how much we ‘feel God’ --we are deceived, and the Truth is not in us, as St. John says.
If we ARE in God’s one church, and following His truth. . .then even if we ‘feel miserable’ and ‘don’t feel His presence’. . .we are still doing His will. . .and that, after all, is what truly matters.
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aboabo
Guest
Why would I need google when I have the Bible?
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Show me the verses which reference the ‘assumption’.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
The Transfiguration event has caused wonder right from the moment that it happened - Peter, James and John certainly were awestruck by it. But why were Elijah and Moses in it? After all, weren’t they “Old Testament”? What were they doing in the New Testament?
Of the two, Moses is perhaps the most straight forward. Moses was selected as a ***representative ***for The Law of God, summed up by The Ten Commandments. And Jesus said of The Law:
“Think not that I have come to abolish the Law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away [Note: heaven and earth are still here, so The Law must be too], not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these Commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:17-19 RSV)
But why Elijah?
As the above verses state, “Think not that I have come to abolish the Law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.”
Just as The Law of God, the foundation of the future Kingdom Of God, spans the entire Bible, so too does the role of the prophets, to provide a witness and a warning. Elijah, one of the earliest prophets, and perhaps the most zealous, was chosen to ***represent ***the function of the prophets.
Since thousands of years of Bible History span more than a single human lifetime, the term “Elijah,” continued to be used to represent the prophets (just as “Washington” has come to sometimes mean successive American government administrations - keeping in mind that the city was named after a man named Washington who has himself long ago died).
And then came John The Baptist, the “Elijah” of his time:
“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John; and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.” (Matthew 11:13-14 RSV)
That same “spirit of Elijah,” which is actually the Holy Spirit of God in the prophet, will again surface, in the most powerful and spectacular version ever, in The Two Witnesses just prior to The Return Of Jesus Christ:
“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of The Lord comes.” (Malachi 4:5 RSV)
“And I will grant my two witnesses power to prophesy for one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands which stand before the Lord of the earth. And if any one would harm them, fire pours out from their mouth and consumes their foes; if any one would harm them, thus he is doomed to be killed. They have power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they desire." (Revelation 11:3-6 RSV)
Show me the biblical verses.
The reason its not in the Bible is because its man-made Paganism. Catholic holidays are not God’s Holy Days.
The Christian-professing world largely ignores the Biblical Holy Days, God’s Holy Days (although many thousands of Christians ***do ***observe them today, just as the early Christian church did without fail), and instead observe traditional man-made holidays that are called Christian. At the same time, most Jews do observe the Biblical Holy Days, while believing that the observances are an end in themselves. This is a tremendous irony - most Christians ignore them, even though God’s Holy Days are about Christianity, while unconverted Jews observe them while rejecting the Christianity that the Holy Days portray. Both are missing the point of God’s Holy Days!
God does nothing in vain. All of the Old Testament observances have Christian applications - that was their entire purpose, to preview what was to come in due time, and then, after their fulfillment, ***to serve as permanent annual commemorations ***to honor and remember the great event.
The spring Holy Days symbolize the events related to the ***First ***Coming of Jesus Christ:
Passover - The Sacrifice of Jesus Christ to pay for the sins of all humanity. Jesus was crucified at Passover, and rose from the dead three days after Passover (Exodus 12:13, John 1:29, Matthew 26:18)
The Days of Unleavened Bread - the removal of sin from the lives of converted, repentant people. (Exodus 12:15, 1 Corinthians 5:7-8)
Pentecost - the “first fruits” harvest, the coming of God’s Holy Spirit upon conversion. (Leviticus 23:16-17, Acts 2:1-4)
The autumn Holy Days symbolize the events related to the ***Second ***Coming of Jesus Christ:
The Feast of Trumpets - The Return of Jesus Christ. (Leviticus 23:23-25, Matthew 24:30-31)
The Day of Atonement - the final judgment and sentencing of Satan after his removal as “the god of this world.” (Leviticus 23:26-32, Revelation 20:10)
The Feast of Tabernacles - the first 1,000 years after The Return of Christ in which the harvest of salvation will truly begin. (Leviticus 23:33-36, Revelation 20:2-4)
The Last Day - the 8th day of the Feast of Tabernacles picturing the resurrection of all those who did not have an opportunity to hear (physically and/or spiritually) the Gospel in all the ages prior to the millennium. (Leviticus 23:39, Revelation 20:5,11-15)
The fact that Jesus was the firstborn Son of Mary means He had no older brothers or sisters. Why do you have a problem with that?
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aboabo
Guest
God’s Church means God’s Church. What you said doesn’t appear in the Bible. That’s why I’m not cathiolic.We agree then. And God’s Church means The Universal Church or “The Catholic Church”.
Why aren’t you Catholic?
James
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aboabo
Guest
Wrong.
And since the only Church that is 2,000-years-old and was founded by Christ is the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church is this Church of God you speak of!
Bravo, welcome home!
Acts 7:37-38 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. (38) This is he, that was in the **church **in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
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aboabo
Guest
Wrong.
Since the most ancient times, the sun has been a favorite “god” or god symbol of pagan people all around the world. The Babylonians, Persians, Egyptians, Greeks and Romans all had their sun gods. The native peoples of North and South America widely practiced sun worship, as did their Asian ancestors. The Europeans too were deeply involved in sun worship, and many of their sun-god festivals were carried over when they professed conversion to Christianity. These can still be seen today in the Easter bonfire and sunrise services, and the Christmas burning of the Yule log.
Sun worship was also widely practiced by the people of the Middle East, and even the Israelites were sometimes corrupted by it:
“Then he said to me, “Have you seen this, O son of man? You will see still greater abominations than these.” And he brought me into the inner court of the house of The Lord; and behold, at the door of the Temple of The Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men, with their backs to the temple of The Lord, and their faces toward the east, worshiping the sun toward the east.” (Ezekiel 8:15-16 RSV)
The Halo
The heads of Saints didn’t really glow as is so often portrayed in religious art. The use of the halo, or nimbus, originated with the pagan Greeks and Romans to represent their sun god, Helios. Later artists adopted it for use in Christian images.
The halo is actually just the sun behind the person’s head. It’s easy to recognize once one realizes what it is, although it’s also often stylized to make it less obvious. Originally a very devious way of mixing idolatrous sun worship with Christianity by converts who were not all that converted, the pagan halo became an unfortunate tradition in Christian art.
God’s Calendar and The Pagan Calendar
Today, the names that are used for the days of the week are all named after the sun, moon, or pagan gods. Sunday (“sun” day), Monday (“moon” day), Tuesday (“Tiwe’s” day), Wednesday (“Woden’s” day), Thursday (“Thor’s” day), Friday (“Frie’s” day) and Saturday (“Saturn’s” day) are all pagan in origin.
Throughout The Bible, the days of the week were identified by number, from first to seventh. Only the seventh day was given a name, the Sabbath:
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath to The Lord your God.” (Exodus 20:8-10 RSV)
As well, any day prior to a Sabbath, whether the regular weekly seventh-day Sabbath, or any of the annual Sabbaths (Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles) was designated as a “Preparation day.”
Sabbath To "Sun"day
The Fourth Commandment is to observe the seventh-day Sabbath. All of the righteous people of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, including Jesus Christ Himself (e.g. Luke 4:16), observed the Sabbath. No where in the Bible, including after Christ’s resurrection, will you find people observing the first day of the week, Sunday, as a replacement for the Sabbath.
This reality was freely admitted by Roman Catholic Cardinal Gibbon in his Faith Of Our Fathers: “But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.”
So, why do so many Christian-professing churches use Sunday for the Sabbath? And the big question, should they be doing so?
An Unjustifiable Justification
Essentially, Sunday worship is supposedly justified because of the ***assumption ***that Christ was resurrected on the first day of the week. Without a Sunday resurrection, there is no justification what-so-ever for observing Sunday as a day of Christian worship, as Sunday-keeping theologians readily admit.
But, was Christ resurrected on a Sunday?
We know that Christ was crucified on the day before a Sabbath, the “preparation” day (e.g. Mark 15:42). Many have assumed that meant Friday, and commonly refer to it as “Good Friday.” But the Bible record doesn’t say that He was crucified on the day before the regular weekly Sabbath. He was crucified before the ***annual ***Sabbath, the Passover (i.e. John 19:14). That preparation day was not a Friday. “Good Friday” never happened.
Further, Christ said that the ***only ***proof that He was the Messiah was that He would be in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights (Matthew 12:39-40), which is 72 hours. Friday afternoon to Sunday morning is barely 36 hours, only 2 nights and 1 day. Friday to Sunday doesn’t work.
When Peter, John and Mary of Magdala arrived at the tomb early that Sunday morning, the resurrection had already occurred. It was long before sunrise because it was still dark, but the tomb was then already empty. (John 20:1).
We know that Christ was placed in the tomb in late afternoon near sunset (Matthew 27:57), and would arise 72 hours later as He said. He would therefore have arisen also on a late afternoon, near sunset, 3 days later. Since He was already gone by Sunday morning, He had to have arisen the previous afternoon near sunset, on Saturday, not Sunday.
The crucifixion was on a Wednesday afternoon, with the burial just before sunset, and the resurrection was on the Sabbath afternoon just before sunset. The ***seventh ***day, not the first. Jesus Christ was not resurrected on a Sunday morning, or at any time during a Sunday. Worship on the first day of the week cannot be justified by the facts. It doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
Who Decided On Sunday?
As already stated, Sunday worship did not originate in the Bible, or in the reality of the events of the crucifixion and resurrection. All of the first Christians, including Peter, Paul, all of the apostles, Mary and Joseph, all of the people who wrote the Bible, and Jesus Christ Himself were seventh-day Sabbath keepers. All of them.
So, where did Sunday worship come from?
Gradually, the Roman empire that persecuted Christians began to adopt Christianity, or rather, its own self-serving version of Christianity, which was a blend of politics and religion, a little truth, but mostly outright Roman paganism - which included worship of the Roman sun god. Sunday worship came about as a pagan corruption of God’s holy seventh-day Sabbath.
By the fourth century, only Jews (by then, God’s Sabbath was becoming known as the “Jewish” Sabbath), and a relatively few true Christians, continued to observe the seventh-day Sabbath as God commanded everyone. There is only ***one ***true God, and ***one ***true Sabbath.
In 321, the Roman emperor Constantine issued an edict which outlawed work on the “venerable day of the sun,” Sunday, and within 3 years the corrupted version of Christianity had become the official religion of the Roman empire. From that, the Roman Catholic Church, and its many Protestant daughter churches, got the commonly-accepted Sunday observance of today - utterly pagan in origin, and completely contrary to God’s command.
Traditions of men cannot save you. Only the Truth, and ***genuine ***obedience to it, is the way to salvation. If you didn’t know the truth about Sunday before, now you do. And God knows that you do.
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mikew262
Guest
One must follow one’s conscious, even the Church admits as much. If a person feels without a doubt that the truth does not fall within the Catholic Church, but feels God’s presence and truly relates to him and feels the truth is in the Lutheran Church down the street, then I think God has no problem with that and neither do I. This person is still following Christ the way he/she feels is true. Remember, where 2 or more gather in his name, Jesus says he will be there.
I’m a practicing Catholic, but I have little problem if a fellow Christian (or even possibly a non-Christian) sincerely believes in worshiping God in a different way. God will ultimately make the decision if that way was too far off course.
I like a quote from Pope John XXIII: “See everything, overlook a lot, correct a little”. Meaning its not necessary to criticize and correct everything, if different from the way you think it should be done, as long as they are generally heading in the right direction, which most sincerely good Christians are (IMO).
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AlexiaMusing
Guest
I’m not sure why you feel the need to twist what I said. You understand I think rather perfectly what I meant. I feel my faith tradition is the better one, and thus I am happy to be a member of it. I am happy you feel the same about yours. I don’t understand your continued attempts to turn this into “mine is better than yours.” Believe what you wish in the matter and I shall as well. If you don’t feel that God gave you reason and intuition for any particular reason, then so be it. You seem to feel that feeling happy about one’s faith tradition is somehow not correct. Do Romans now think that feelings of suffering are required to be sure you have got the right one?
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CentralFLJames
Guest
What “church” do you belong to adoabo? Does it appear in the bible or it it one of those invisible ones’ that hides somwhere beterrn the fonts of the verses that tell us a Church that is both physical and mystical:
Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
1 Tim. 3:15 “… the household of God, which is he church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth”.
Acts Of Apostles 5:11 And there came great fear upon the whole church, and upon all that heard these things.
Acts Of Apostles 8:1 And at that time there was raised a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all dispersed through the countries of Judea, and Samaria, except the apostles.
Acts Of Apostles 11:26 And they conversed there in the church a whole year; and they taught a great multitude, so that at Antioch the disciples were first named Christians.
Acts of the Apostels 8:3 But Saul made havock of the church, entering in from house to house, and dragging away men and women, committed them to prison.
Acts Of Apostles 12:1 And at the same time, Herod the king stretched forth his hands, to afflict some of the church.
Acts Of Apostles 14:22 And when they had ordained to them **priests **in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, in whom they believed.
James
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Leeann
Guest
Hehehehehehehehehe…my thoughts too…only in reverse…from the “other” side
(Thought I’d use those little blue facey things, as they seem to be very popular in here)
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