I have no problem with the liturgy, celtic. Our Church uses almost the exact same form; and yes, the liturgy is a very awesome parellell with the feast of the Lamb in Revelation; my view of the falsity of the Mass is not the liturgy, but the doctrine behind the Mass itself; and yes, I’ve been to Mass many, many times. My wife was Catholic when we were married (we were married in the Catholic Church).
Time for a parable excerpt:
No need to be snide, BLUE. I know that may be a virtue in apologetics circles, but it doesn’t impress.
What? :bigyikes:
:extrahappy: I digress I am guilty of being snide. Everyone gets that way over religion and politics. I always say to not put religion over Christianity. So you are right I should not be snide. In proving a negative-my frustration is that other religions always say their beliefs are backed up by scripture but Catholicism is not. Here we have Catholics backing their beliefs up with scripture and I asked you to do the same. But noone is holding a gun to your head to be Catholic or to prove anything. When I asked you for scripture it was in relation to all of your posts but I can’t quote them all without a ridiculous copy and paste frenzy. Lack of communication on my part. But hey, you have the right to believe whatever you like as I do as well. We all love the same God, guess we have different ways of going about it. I really would like to know, not that its any of my business, but you are here; so, if you have an interest/curiosity in Catholicism, and if so why? Not being snide, critical, sarcastic, no premptive strike for conversion, not wasting time defending my faith either. It’s a genuine question. I think you know why I am asking it too. It’s pretty obvious.
Hey, TriuneUnity -
Hi, nsper7 -
**So does the Anglican Communion. After all, we trace AS back to St. Augustine of Canterbury. Of course, the Apostolic Succession up to St. Augustine of Canterbury can be traced back to the Apostles.
I recognize that Transubstantiation may be correct. Personally, I like the Eastern Orthodox way of viewing at as a Divine Mystery and leaving it at that.
Yes, King Henry VIII was the the first to break from Rome, but remember that, later, under Queen Mary, the Church of England returned to communion with Rome. It was under Queen Elizabeth that the CoE made its final break with Rome and the ‘via media’ doctrine of Anglicanism (and, in general, the modern form of Anglicanism) was developed.
This is according to the Roman Catholic Church, which is quite biased on this matter.
Remember, there is the Roman Catholic Church, which is a Rite (I won’t say denomination). The Catholic Church is the Universal Church (Catholic=Universal) of which we speak when we recite the Nicene Creed: We believe in Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Wrong - all Christians are not Catholic. Protestants are separated Christians who, because of one misinterpretation or another or due to spiritual pride refuse to unite with the ONLY Church established by Jesus Christ.
I agree with you and the Nicene Creed: there is One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (OHCAC), but it is not limited to one rite/tradition/denomination/etc. The Roman Catholic Church is perhaps an expression of the OHCAC and, as I said, the Anglican Communion recognizes the validity of Roman Catholic Holy Orders. Since Catholic=Universal, ALL Christians are a part of the Catholic Church, but not all Christians are part of the Latin Rite/Roman Catholicism. The Anglican Communion is not the OHCAC, but is, hopefully, another expression of it (the Anglo Rite perhaps).
Well… Half of my family is Catholic (I can’t say the majority of them are practicing Catholics, unfortunately). There is somewhat of a more mutual understanding between Catholics and Lutherans on many issues. When I come here, I do not look at it any differently than if I were to go to a Presbyterian forum or a Baptist forum. I view it as a Christian forum, but lacking in many areas. So it’s always interesting to see other sides in a discussion and to interject the orthodox Lutheran opinion.
To say that we are in communion with the Church Triumphant is not to affirm that we can pray to or for them. The dead are still the dead and while they certainly pray for the Church Militant, they are neither omniscient or omnipresent as these are incommunicable attributes of the divine.
Again - the Anglican Church - and every other Protestant denomination is not and cannot be part of the Catholic Church. That is tantamount to saying that the United States is still part of England - even though we broke away.
Hello elvisman,
Lots of reasons! Too many to list really, but maily because I don’t believe that the Catholic church of 2008 is the Church that Christ founded. I believe that many Catholics are included in the Church Christ founded along with many others from other denominations.
If this is true of what you say, where all the other denominations in history for the first 1100 years of Christianity in the world. Where is the church Jesus built on Peter today? Where is the church that Jesus promised he “will never leave” today? Where is the church that is “offering a pure sacrifice from the rising of the sun to it setting” Today? There is only one answer to these questions; in the Roman Catholic church. All other denominations are under the umbrella of the Catholic church, because they took with them some “Truths of the deposit of faith” from the Catholic church. These are the different similarities from different denominations that may mirror some Cathoilc doctrines, except without validity, and or apostolic succession. The body of Jesus Christ cannot be divided. Scripture states there is only One faith, One body, One Lord, One baptism, and One Church.
Since exiting from the RCC I have come to see clearly that it is only the RCC making these claims about itself. It is the RCC tracing its roots back to the Apostles. I can trace myself back to Fort Knox because I was there once about 14 years ago but what does it ultimately mean? Virtually nothing. All Christians in one way or another can trace their roots back to the Apostles and to Christ.
To be more precise- the Catholic Church PROCLAIMS herself as the One True Church! We don’t just claim her to be our one true Church anymore because she’s been the “US” since the very beginning of Christianity.
Unfortunately, Apostasy isn’t anything new, read John 6:66
Moreover, some today have left the Catholic Church for the same reason, a disbelief in the Holy Eucharist;