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Jimmy_B
Guest
I strongly disagree, please give me a little time and I will prove it to you. It looks like I am going to have dust off my KJV (which I use for research only).
Thanks
If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?
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Thanks
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2ndGen
Guest
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SyCarl
Guest
The Catholic Encyclopedia doesn’t seem to feel that the King James Version was terribly corrupt. It refers to only traces of prejudices.
newadvent.org/cathen/02141a.htm
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SyCarl
Guest
I think that you are mixing up the books referred to in post with the deutercanonical/apocryphya. None of the New Testament epistles were ever removed.
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2ndGen
Guest
uch:
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zezwaz
Guest
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
FredSmith
Matthew 16: 16 - 20
I these verse Jesus established Peter as the one to lead the Church
from the New American Bible
Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood 12 has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
20 Then he strictly ordered his disciples to tell no one that he was the Messiah.
Here begins the Priesthood as the 12 were set apart from all the other that followed and listened to Jesus teachings he also at this time appointed Peter as clearly in verse 18 he was specking to to Peter that he would build the church upon as in verse 19 he was not giving the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven to himself.Verse 19 also speck to the point that they did have the Power to forgive sins.
from the power that Christ gave to the Apostles here its has been pasted through them to the bishops and priest till today. As Peter was the First Bishop of Rome ( the Pope) The Bishop of Rome is still leader of the Church.
As far as Infallibility form New Advent:
Infallibility - In general, exemption or immunity from liability to error or failure; in particular in theological usage, the supernatural prerogative by which the Church of Christ is, by a special Divine assistance, preserved from liability to error in her definitive dogmatic teaching regarding matters of faith and morals.
On The Blessed Virgin. I have found know where were devotion is required, Highly and strongly recommended. again form the New American Bible:
Gospel of John ch 19: 26 - 27
When Jesus saw his mother 11 and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.”
27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.
Here Jesus moments before death gave his mother to us.
Read th First chapter of the Gospel of Luke. A condensed version is Th Prayer " Hail Mary full of grace blessed are you among all women and Blessed is the fruit of thine womb, Jesus. Holy Mary Mother of god pray for us now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
The Church Universal, Christ Church has a real visable place on this earth. that is the Holy Catholic Church ( both Roman and Eastern Rites).
I as a member of this body can disagree with its leaders, but I can not reject The teaching of the Church. Now I can twist teaching to say and mean things that they do not there fore justifying disobedience to God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and The Church.
Matthew 16: 16 - 20
I these verse Jesus established Peter as the one to lead the Church
from the New American Bible
Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood 12 has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
20 Then he strictly ordered his disciples to tell no one that he was the Messiah.
Here begins the Priesthood as the 12 were set apart from all the other that followed and listened to Jesus teachings he also at this time appointed Peter as clearly in verse 18 he was specking to to Peter that he would build the church upon as in verse 19 he was not giving the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven to himself.Verse 19 also speck to the point that they did have the Power to forgive sins.
from the power that Christ gave to the Apostles here its has been pasted through them to the bishops and priest till today. As Peter was the First Bishop of Rome ( the Pope) The Bishop of Rome is still leader of the Church.
As far as Infallibility form New Advent:
Infallibility - In general, exemption or immunity from liability to error or failure; in particular in theological usage, the supernatural prerogative by which the Church of Christ is, by a special Divine assistance, preserved from liability to error in her definitive dogmatic teaching regarding matters of faith and morals.
On The Blessed Virgin. I have found know where were devotion is required, Highly and strongly recommended. again form the New American Bible:
Gospel of John ch 19: 26 - 27
When Jesus saw his mother 11 and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.”
27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.
Here Jesus moments before death gave his mother to us.
Read th First chapter of the Gospel of Luke. A condensed version is Th Prayer " Hail Mary full of grace blessed are you among all women and Blessed is the fruit of thine womb, Jesus. Holy Mary Mother of god pray for us now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
The Church Universal, Christ Church has a real visable place on this earth. that is the Holy Catholic Church ( both Roman and Eastern Rites).
I as a member of this body can disagree with its leaders, but I can not reject The teaching of the Church. Now I can twist teaching to say and mean things that they do not there fore justifying disobedience to God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and The Church.
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
Actually both submersion and pouring ( not sprinkling) are except-able forms of Baptism. (And here i have to laugh) does not impart magical properties. It for the forgiveness of sin, Instituted by Jesus The Eucharist was instituted by Jesus as well " this is my Body, this is my Blood. Do this." As for the Transubstantiation, Christ stated that they were His Body and Blood not a symbol of them.
Sacrament of Penance read Matthew 16 .
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fbl9
Guest
hi OneGodonechurch ihave already suggested to FredSmith ti read the gospel written by St. Luke but it won’t hurt to try again.post 162
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
I just pray that he’s open to discussion, and not taking everything as a personal attack. Most of my Family are members of Protestant churches so I’m use to these type of discussion.
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fbl9
Guest
thanks oneGODonechurch iwish i could be as level headed you seem to be in these discusions. good practice for me though.i tend to get a little too growling when dealing with some other christians especially when it comes to our Holy mother,Mary. sometims ifeel if one could beat the truth into some one it would be easier. iknow that isn’t right and iam not sugesting this to any one it is a reflection of my human nature not the reflection of our Lord showing then. i have many things to learn and that is part of the reson for my being here.
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
fbl19 Thank you. I think you give me to much credit. I try to really take me time to respond to post. I reread it to see if i was the one being responded to if I would be offended. If so I rewrite it. I do better with Protestants than I do with atheist. I lose patience quickly then.
I also try to think if I bagger them I am reflecting The Church and God in a bad light. I look to the Gospel of Mark CH 10 verses 17 - 21 in the story of the rich man. with the Protestant they fill that they have all their lives lived by the word of GOD. If we brow beat them then they walk away angry and resentful. As Catholic We except Gods truth as passed to us from the Apostles through the Church by faith. Their church were started by men that saw ( in some case with reason) faults in the church. These faults were not in the church but in the men that missed used the church. As Pope JPII pointed out errors have been made in church history buy
priest, and bishops, even a Pope or 2 that does not place the Church in error and through the Holy Spirit those errors get corrected with in the Church.
hum I guess that was quite a rant there.
Again thank you.
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
I think the reason for that is that modern apologetics today is much different then is was just 10 or 15 years ago. In many ways the biggest and fastest changes have occurred in the last 5 years, CAF is one example…
My guess is that the whole Protestant issue will be put to rest inside of twenty years. If it is getting easier and easier for the “regular guy” to debunk the myths of Protestantism, what do you imagine is going to happen, as more scholars get involved? The Church will tend to “whisper” at times where lay Catholics tend to “shout”, sometimes that is good, sometimes it’s not…
Every new book that I purchase that supports and explains Catholicism is better than the last.
It wasn’t that long ago, I heard (fundamentalist, evangelical) Christian’s preaching that, Pope John Paul II was the “anti-Christ”. Now in light of historical events, a comment like that sounds ludicrous, but at the time there were millions of “Christians” in this country who bought into that non-sense.
***Who is their “anti-Christ” this week? ***
The problem with the Protestant view regarding personal interpretation is that the Protestent model as a religious system is intrinsically flawed.
It (Protestantism) is a system, that on the service “appears” to encourage study, however, because the parameters or so tight and their exist a built in “lack of incentive” to learn more about ones own Protestant faith, The Protestant model actually discourages growth and knowledge.
There is no need to learn anything else regarding Salvation once you have determined that you are “Save”, where is the incentive. There is something to be said of ‘Catholic guilt”. Guilt and fear of failure or possible disappointment can be a good thing, it can be a powerful incentive.
Most Protestants here, that are “ready” to take on Catholics, cannot even tell you if their own faith is rooted in Calvinism or Lutheranism, it is not important for them to learn that information because their own religious rule-set has made it irrelevant, they already know that they are going to heaven.
It is however, important that a Protestant learn “what’s wrong” with the Catholic Church… more time wasted “protesting”…
Protestants are rarely, if ever brought up during a Catholic Mass, and on the rare occasion that our non-Catholic Christian brothers and sisters are mentioned, it is always positive.
The whole “protesting” mindset is also flawed. As a Catholic, I can and I am encouraged to learn as much as a can about my Catholic faith, Catholic and Christian history, tradition and the entire Bible. There is no fear that I might un-cover something that might cause me to change my faith. This isn’t true for Protestants.
Protestants are directed and misdirected to just that information which has been narrowed to support their position. Who do you thinks wins in this type of situation?
If I were to start up a business today using the “Protestant” model, it would certianly fail and so will Protestant religions.
What use to take months and years to investigate, now can take hours and days. This includes investigating the differences between the Catholic and Protestant Bibles and Catholic and Protestant doctrine.
Take care and God Bless
T
tmg
Guest
This is a very interesting line of thinking and thank you for starting this discussion. I am an ex-catholic, now a christian and then some. I went to an irish catholic boarding school, in Ireland in the '60’s for 5 years so I think I’m very familiar with the way the Catholic Church intended to teach their doctrine. One thing I learned while there was that the catholic church in America was considered (by the Irish clergy) to not really represent catholicism, not in the old European sense anyway. This was so if for no other reason that Ireland was a lot closer to Rome and therefore closer to the ways things “should be.” I’m sure this old way of thinking still applies…
Considering how badly the church has done in imparting the true meaning of Christ’s teachings, it is amazing it is still in business. And seeing how unremorseful it is about its past, everyone should look forward to it’s further decline. Because in it’s decline, other more meaningful ways will appear. And there are other ways. I know of one that has been very rewarding. I, after decades of being one of those that stayed as far away as possible from religion and God, have found a way to be closer to our Father/Creator. It’s a religion that states the most important thing we can do with our lives is to develop a personal relationship with Him. Does the catholic church ever seriously promote such a relationship? Not to my knowledge. If it does, I’d like to hear about it. Thank you for letting me express my view.
Peace!
Tom
Considering how badly the church has done in imparting the true meaning of Christ’s teachings, it is amazing it is still in business. And seeing how unremorseful it is about its past, everyone should look forward to it’s further decline. Because in it’s decline, other more meaningful ways will appear. And there are other ways. I know of one that has been very rewarding. I, after decades of being one of those that stayed as far away as possible from religion and God, have found a way to be closer to our Father/Creator. It’s a religion that states the most important thing we can do with our lives is to develop a personal relationship with Him. Does the catholic church ever seriously promote such a relationship? Not to my knowledge. If it does, I’d like to hear about it. Thank you for letting me express my view.
Peace!
Tom
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fbl9
Guest
tmg i take it you missed out on Thomas Kempis"s book imitation of Christ. or even heard of Bishop Fulton J Sheen as an ex catholic who came back home i truly feel sory for you and hope you may come back to the full truth what one thinks is the truth is a lot different then knowing the truth.
M
mgrfin
Guest
Hey Tom,
I have a few points. I am Irish, and the English tried to wipe us and our faith off the face of the earth. Intentionally trying to starve us was an act of genocide. It was a story of one Christian nation trying to destroy one Catholic country.
How badly a job the Catholic Church has done? What little hamlet are you writing from. The Church is not in decline. Is the Holy Spirit in decline?
Look at what is happening to the christian sects: Anglicanism, Luteranism, Methodism, Episcopalianism - these are sick and in need of a saviour. Some can’t decide whether homosexuality is a good thing, and have female ministers and bishops, and disunity.
Pentecostalism is stealing all your believers.
See how good we are. We allow you to come here and make your little anti-Catholic dig at us, free and clear.
The Church has done well. It’s human side has struggled of late, but the tale of its demise is very premature.
You should thank God that the presence of God is among you.
peace
F
fbl9
Guest
hi mrgfin in my parish the church is in a decline not because of ncc’s stealing but because i think is nobody really cares anymore when i was much younger one had to be at christmas mass early to get any seat now one can pick whereever they choose to sit.but on the bright side we had three new people move into our town who are catholics and in our neighbouring parish ther are 5 who are enrolled in RCIA
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FredSmith
Guest
And the Bible says that we can know.
Why should I take your word over God’s?
Wow. A Roman Catholic thinks God’s word is a lie. I’m shocked.
And what is your background in theology?
And thank you for yet another illuminating example of the rudeness of Roman Catholics.
F
fbl9
Guest
hi fredsmith do you have a free will? if you say yes then you can not be saved, for at any given moment you may choose to sin and if die in that sin where will you go?
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FredSmith
Guest
Read 1 John. It tells us that, although we will still sin, we are still saved.
Well, first, they certainly don’t treat me the way you all have. They don’t call me names or tell me that I’m not saved.
We sit down and go through our disagreements and go through scripture to see what God’s word says about it.
If you were born again in the first place, you wouldn’t *want *to rape and pillage.
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