If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?

[Namesake]

So you are saying that Christ’s words are mere words, they have no deeper significance? He is, after all, the Word.

Nope. I am saying that what Catholics think isn’t correct. You all think you know the meaning of Christ. I do not believe that you do.

 

[SyCarl]

Look at what Jesus “said”.

He pointed out their wrongs their “deeds” not their words.

Then, he pointed out their secular teachings, but doesn’t condemn their Mosaic teachings which are The Law.

He criticized “their” traditons, not His Father’s traditions.

This is an incredibly strong case “against” people that create doctrines outside of The Church.

That cannot be denied.

It is when they veer off of The Law and begin to add their own personal interpretations to The Law that they fail.

It’s not their rabbinic teachings that are wrong,
but their personal teachings that are wrong.

He is criticizing how they took what God gives them and make it their own. The whole attack by Jesus is on the man in the Pharisee, not the Rabbi in the Pharisee.

The Word of God is truth. If one teaches it alone, then he/she is incapable of teaching false doctrine, but they were teaching their own teachings…not affiliated with the Seat of Moses. When they taught outside of The Law, they were “not” teaching by the authority of Moses…which is the only Law that Jesus told His Disciples to follow.

Right?

Jesus even said it…to do as they “teach” in reference to The Seat of Moses, but not as they do (which are their behaviours), for they don’t practice what the preach.

So there, what they do is wrong, but what they teach is right.

Right?

There is a huge difference.

Again, the text of Jesus says it all…

How was one to know when they were teaching the Law and when they were teaching outside of it?

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi fbl9

hi whatisthetruth in my home town there is the united church,the catholic church and the abundant living mininstries church(which at last i knew belived if one dies in sin off to heaven regardless).

something fishy there… going to heaven with sin hmmm??

It was by reading the bible and by the Grace of God that i came back to the true church. i hope i would go to heaven hence my hope is in His just judgement.

All I had was a hope too when I was a catholic.

i guess you missed my reply tp c659’s post. what he described is one of (so far) joyful expierences.

I saw it,

perhaps you think i was not being kind to whatisthetruth he will understand i was not being a smart alec.

fbl9, I respect your postition and your beliefs and when you asked me in the board

okay now where can i go to believe what you believe? cause nobody around here teaches the same from what i know of.

I answered the bible. which Roman Catholics do not believe bible alone, and so the debate goes on.

I saved the following comment for last

one can not say who is to go to heaven for that is to bring Jesus down, one can not say who is going to hell for that is raise Christ up things only which God can do.

I can not tell you if you are going to heaven or hell, you are right

when you said, “i hope i would go to heaven hence my hope is in His just judgement”

exctly the way I felt as a Catholic.

However, since leaving, I believe God revealed a truth to me through the Holy Spirit. I believe that God wants you to know if you will be going to heaven or not should this be the day of your hour/heart beat on earth.

Ask yourself this question,

if you were in your dying moments on your death bed,

do you believe God would want you to exit this earth with doubt or assurance as to where you will be spending eternity?

I know it is a tough question to answer, especially since you are not God

Consider,

how you believe you would feel emotionally if you left this earth in doubt as to your eternal destiny?

(you will die hoping you make it to heaven)

**how you believe you would feel emotionally if you left this earth assured by a promise from God you will spend eternity in heaven? **

(here I come paradise)

**Wasn’t that the case of the one thief on the cross? **

He is the only person who Jesus, at least in human form, directly promised eternity in heaven :heaven: when they were in their dying moment, face to face.

Do you believe it is possible that God can make the same promise spiritually, by faith, should this be the day of your final hour/heartbeat on earth?

Below is a thread I started. AMy I encourage you to take a look at it?

It may assist you to understand better why I believe the way I do.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=212280
possibly another message at Calvary?

fbl9, thank you and God bless

truth

 

[qui_est_ce]

Communion in Protestant churches isn’t political. It doesn’t represent alignment with a denomination. It represents acceptance of redemption though Christ Jesus and Him crucified. That isn’t Catholic or Protestant, it’s Christian.

Okay, I left at 7:00 CST to go to choir practice, now I am back, and you are still bickering about the Pharisees and the NIV. Sunday, we are having an interdenominational prayer service with the Lutheran church across the street. We have combined choirs to prepare for this second annual event.

What do you mean Eucharist is not political. Didn’t Bill Clinton receive communion in South Africa from a Catholic priest? Now, I’m no Democrat, but after all…he’s not even Catholic! JK!!

Now why would you want to eat and drink the body and blood of Christ in a Catholic Church if you don’t believe in it? It is not symbolic. By taking Communion, you acknowledge the Church which distributes it. So, Name, you believe in Transubstantiation, that the Eucharist is the Real Presence, body and blood of Christ, in the form of unleavened bread and wine?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Nope. I am saying that what Catholics think isn’t correct. You all think you know the meaning of Christ. I do not believe that you do.

Tell me what we Catholics think. Since we, the Church, are the body of Christ, and we eat (gnaw) His flesh, and drink His blood, you say we do not know the meaning of Christ. You do. Tell us.

 

[jkarp]

Nope. I am saying that what Catholics think isn’t correct. You all think you know the meaning of Christ. I do not believe that you do.

OK, you’ve got my attention; please explain to me how receiving the Eucharist in the Catholic Church is not a sign of acceptance of the teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[2ndGen]

How was one to know when they were teaching the Law and when they were teaching outside of it?

And Excellent question!

Being that they basically held all the cards,
when did a layperson know that what the Pharisees were teaching was right and when it was wrong?

I guess it was when (and this is just my guess because I don’t have an answer) their words matched the teachings, then, it was good. This would have to mean that when they were allowed to occupy the seat of Moses (the teaching authority) God protected His faithful by making sure that those who He chose to lead them would not lead them into error.

Remember when Jesus said that if they were obeying the law themselves, they would know that He was The Messiah?

Ok, if I read The Bible out loud, but I was a thief, would my state of sin change the scripture?

Of course not. My sin doesn’t stain The Word of God.

But, one would be stupid to steal just because I steal just because I read scripture out loud.

Of course this is an extreme case used for example.

Jesus teaches us to obey The Law, not “the man”.

We are to separate the two and not give unto any man any divine power just because he teaches while always maintaining reverance for The Law itself and while honoring the man who “does” outwardly live the prime example of what he teaches.

If we are to honor the lowliest of men, how much more must we honor those that God sends us that visibly live His Word?

 

[Namesake]

Now why would you want to eat and drink the body and blood of Christ in a Catholic Church if you don’t believe in it? It is not symbolic. By taking Communion, you acknowledge the Church which distributes it. So, Name, you believe in Transubstantiation, that the Eucharist is the Real Presence, body and blood of Christ, in the form of unleavened bread and wine?

I think communion should be for any true believer. Catholics believe it should be restricted to Catholics. Catholics believe it has something to do with church affiliation. I believe it has to do with acceptance of Jesus Christ the savior to the world and whosoever believes in Him will not perish, but shall have life everlasting. I do not believe in the real presence.

 

[lak611]

Which NAB/RSV’s? The Protestant versions?

There are no Protestant NAB’s. That is a Catholic translation.

 

[VARC]

I didn’t read this whole thread. I read the OP and it is pretty offensive. It’s a pretty broad generalization to say that every christian who isn’t catholic is so because of pride or some other vice rather than genuine disagreement.

I converted to catholicism 8 years ago. Up until recently, I attended TLM weekly and was quite content being catholic. I am now beginning to enter the orthodox church. I am not being selfish or proud. I just sincerely disagree with the catholic religion.

 

[2ndGen]

Nope. I am saying that what Catholics think isn’t correct. You all think you know the meaning of Christ. I do not believe that you do.

:extrahappy:

Namesake’s gonna tell us what we “dont’” know!

WooPee!

 

[Namesake]

OK, you’ve got my attention; please explain to me how receiving the Eucharist in the Catholic Church is not a sign of acceptance of the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I am saying that the Eucharist isn’t about that in Protestantism. It is about that in Catholicism. In Catholicism the Eucharist is about Church. In Protestantism the Eucharist is about Jesus.

 

[jkarp]

I think communion should be for any true believer. Catholics believe it should be restricted to Catholics. Catholics believe it has something to do with church affiliation. I believe it has to do with acceptance of Jesus Christ the savior to the world and whosoever believes in Him will not perish, but shall have life everlasting. I do not believe in the real presence.

Then why would you want to eat something that somebody claims is His real presence?

 

[Namesake]

Then why would you want to eat something that somebody claims is His real presence?

I don’t believe them for a second. It’s symbolic and the Catholics are deluded.

 

[jkarp]

I am saying that the Eucharist isn’t about that in Protestantism. It is about that in Catholicism. In Catholicism the Eucharist is about Church. In Protestantism the Eucharist is about Jesus.

But in the Catholic Church, the Eucharist IS Jesus, how can it not be about Him if it is Him?

 

[Namesake]

But in the Catholic Church, the Eucharist IS Jesus, how can it not be about Him if it is Him?

That’s OK for Catholics. But I don’t believe that at all. It’s a symbol of our dedication to follow Christ. We don’t eat our God! We do that in remembrance. We do not crucify Him every day!

 

[2ndGen]

I think communion should be for any true believer. Catholics believe it should be restricted to Catholics. Catholics believe it has something to do with church affiliation. I believe it has to do with acceptance of Jesus Christ the savior to the world and whosoever believes in Him will not perish, but shall have life everlasting. I do not believe in the real presence.

Well then, that puts you in the underwhelming minority of what Christians believe today and have believed for the past 2,000 years.

What “you” believe is not a Christian belief.

Jesus’ Real Presence in the Eucharist
“They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to Smyrnaeans, 7,1 (c. A.D. 110).

“For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.” Justin Martyr, First Apology, 66 (c. A.D. 110-165).

“[T]he bread over which thanks have been given is the body of their Lord, and the cup His blood…” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:18,4 (c. A.D. 200).

“He acknowledged the cup (which is a part of the creation) as his own blood, from which he bedews our blood; and the bread (also a part of creation) he affirmed to be his own body, from which he gives increase to our bodies.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:2,2 (c. A.D. 200).

“But what consistency is there in those who hold that the bread over which thanks have been given is the Body of their Lord, and the cup His Blood, if they do not acknowledge that He is the Son of the Creator of the world…” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:18, 2 (c. A.D. 200).

 

[2ndGen]

That’s OK for Catholics. But I don’t believe that at all. It’s a symbol of our dedication to follow Christ. We don’t eat our God! We do that in remembrance. We do not crucify Him every day!

Actually, it’s been “ok” for Christians since the beginning of Christianity.

It wasn’t until the 16th century that some Christians chose to “stop” believing in the real presence.

Most of those eliminated communion altogether.

 

[jkarp]

I don’t believe them for a second. It’s symbolic and the Catholics are deluded.

Come now,this is how you refute another’s point, by name calling? Perhaps I struck a nerve? If Catholics are so deluded, what is your preoccupation with being able to receive communion in the Catholic Church? The original reply that you replied to was in regard to open communion, I asked why someone would would want to receive communion with that which they don’t believe? For example, if one is a staunch republican who agrees with nothing that the democrats believe, should that person attend a dinner in which everyone proclaims that democrats are right?

 

[2ndGen]

I didn’t read this whole thread. I read the OP and it is pretty offensive. It’s a pretty broad generalization to say that every christian who isn’t catholic is so because of pride or some other vice rather than genuine disagreement.

I converted to catholicism 8 years ago. Up until recently, I attended TLM weekly and was quite content being catholic. I am now beginning to enter the orthodox church. I am not being selfish or proud. I just sincerely disagree with the catholic religion.

Good luck