If you are a non-Catholic Christian (Protestant), here you can find 42 reasons why the Roman Catholic Church was right.

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Jimmy_B

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If you are a non-Catholic Christian (Protestant), here you can find 42 reasons why the Roman Catholic Church was right.

**Below is an extensive list of Bible (NAB) verses, with links, which support’s the Roman Catholic position on; **

**The Communion of the Saints, Intercessory Prayer and as “Protestants” put it “praying to and for dead people”. **

Any questions?

******1. ****1 Samuel 14:11
11 Accordingly, the two of them appeared before the outpost of the Philistines, who said, “Look, some Hebrews are coming out of the holes where they have been hiding.”

**2. **2 Kings 4:20, 32-33
20 The servant picked him up and carried him to his mother; he stayed with her until noon, when he died in her lap.

32 When Elisha reached the house, he found the boy lying dead.
33 He went in, closed the door on them both, and prayed to the LORD.

35 He arose,…

**3. **Job 42:8
8 3 Now, therefore, take seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up a holocaust for yourselves; and let my servant Job pray for you; for his prayer I will accept, not to punish you severely. For you have not spoken rightly concerning me, as has my servant Job."

**4. **Tobit 12:12
12 5 I can now tell you that when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented and read the record of your prayer before the Glory of the Lord; and I did the same thing when you used to bury the dead.

**5. **2 Maccabees 12:44
44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.
**
 
**6. **2 Maccabbees 15:12-13
12 3 What he saw was this: Onias, the former high priest, a good and virtuous man, modest in appearance, gentle in manners, distinguished in speech, and trained from childhood in every virtuous practice, was praying with outstretched arms for the whole Jewish community.
13 Then in the same way another man appeared, distinguished by his white hair and dignity, and with an air about him of extraordinary, majestic authority.

**7. **Wisdom 3:1-3
1 1 But the souls of the just are in the hand of God, and no torment shall touch them.
2 They seemed, in the view of the foolish, to be dead; and their passing away was thought an affliction
3 and their going forth from us, utter destruction. But they are in peace.

**8. **Matthew 22:23, 29
23 14 On that day Sadducees approached him, saying that there is no resurrection. 15 They put this question to him,
24 saying, “Teacher, Moses said, ‘If a man dies 16 without children, his brother shall marry his wife and raise up descendants for his brother.’
25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first married and died and, having no descendants, left his wife to his brother.
26 The same happened with the second and the third, through all seven.
27 Finally the woman died.
28 Now at the resurrection, of the seven, whose wife will she be? For they all had been married to her.”
29 17 Jesus said to them in reply, “You are misled because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God.
30 At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven.
31 And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you 18 by God,
32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

**9. **Matthew 17:1-3
1 1 2 After six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves.
2 3 And he was transfigured before them; his face shone like the sun and his clothes became white as light.
3 4 And behold, Moses and **Elijah **appeared to them, conversing with him.

**10. **Matthew 17:4
4 Then Peter said to Jesus in reply, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents 5 here, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
 
**11. **Mathew 27 51-5
51 And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom. 31 The earth quaked, rocks were split,
52 tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised.
53 And coming forth from their tombs after his resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

**12. **Matthew 28:18
18 11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

**13. **Luke 15:7
7 I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.

**14. **Luke 20:38
38 and he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive."

**15. **John 11:25-26
25 Jesus told her, "I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live,

26 and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do
you believe this?"

**16. **Acts 9:36,37,40
36 Now in Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which translated means Dorcas). 10 She was completely occupied with good deeds and almsgiving.
37 Now during those days she fell sick and died, so after washing her, they laid (her) out in a room upstairs.

40 Peter sent them all out and knelt down and prayed. Then he turned to her body and said, “Tabitha, rise up.” She opened her eyes, saw Peter, and sat up.

**17. **James 5:14-19
14 Is anyone among you sick? 6 He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord,
15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven. 7
16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.
17 Elijah was a human being like us; yet he prayed earnestly that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain upon the land.
18 Then he prayed again, and the sky gave rain and the earth produced its fruit.
19 My brothers, if anyone among you should stray from the truth and someone bring him back,
 
**18. **Romans 8:37-39
37 No, in all these things we conquer overwhelmingly through him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, 9 nor future things, nor powers,
39 nor height, nor depth, 10 nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

**19. **Romans 15:30
30 I urge you, (brothers,) by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in the struggle by your prayers to God on my behalf,

**20. **1 Corinthians 12:12
12 4 As a body is one though it has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though many, are one body, so also Christ.

**21. **Galatians 6:2, 10
2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so you will fulfill the law of Christ. 2

10 So then, while we have the opportunity, let us do good to all, but especially to those who belong to the family of the faith. 5

**22. **Ephesians 1:22-23
22 And he put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,
23 which is his body, 11 the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way.

**23. **Ephesians 3:14-15
14 7 8 For this reason I kneel before the Father,
15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named,
 
**24. **Ephesians 4:3-4
3 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace:
4 2 one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;

**25. **Ephesians 5:30-32
30 because we are members of his body.
31 “For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
32 This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.

**26. **Ephesians 6:18
18 With all prayer and supplication, pray at every opportunity in the Spirit. To that end, be watchful with all perseverance and supplication for all the holy ones

**27. **Philippians 3:17
17 11 Join with others in being imitators of me, 12 brothers, and observe those who thus conduct themselves according to the model you have in us.

**28. **Colossians 1:17-19
17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18 He is the head of the body, the church. 9 He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he himself might be preeminent.
19 For in him all the fullness 10 was pleased to dwell,

**29. **Colossians 3:15
15 And let the peace of Christ control your hearts, the peace into which you were also called in one body. And be thankful.

**30. **Colossians 4:3
3 at the same time, pray for us, too, that God may open a door to us for the word, to speak of the mystery of Christ, for which I am in prison,

**31. **1 Thessalonians 5:11, 25
11 Therefore, encourage one another and build one another up, as indeed you do.

25 Brothers, pray for us (too).

**32. **2 Thessalonians 3:1, 7-9
1 1 Finally, brothers, pray for us, so that the word of the Lord may speed forward and be glorified, as it did among you,

7 For you know how one must imitate us. For we did not act in a disorderly way among you,
8 nor did we eat food received free from anyone. On the contrary, in toil and drudgery, night and day we worked, so as not to burden any of you.
9 Not that we do not have the right. Rather, we wanted to present ourselves as a model for you, so that you might imitate us.
 
**33. **1 Timothy 2:1

1 First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone,

**24. **1 Timothy 5:5
5 The real widow, who is all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day.

**35. **2 Timothy 2:2
2 And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.

2 Timothy 4:8

**36. **Hebrews 1:14
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent to serve, for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

**37. **Hebrews 12:1, 22-23
1 1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us 2 and persevere in running the race that lies before us

22 No, you have approached Mount Zion and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and countless angels in festal gathering,
23 and the assembly of the firstborn enrolled in heaven, 6 and God the judge of all, and the spirits of the just made perfect,

**38. **Revelations 5:8
8 When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.

**39. **Revelations 6:9
9 When he broke open the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar 8 the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the witness they bore to the word of God.

**40. **Revelations 8:3-4
3 Another angel came and stood at the altar, 3 holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne.
4 The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.

**41. **Revelations 19:10
9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed 5 are those who have been called to the wedding feast of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These words are true; they come from God.”
10 I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t! I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brothers who bear witness to Jesus. Worship God. Witness to Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” 6

**42. **Revelations 22:8-9
8 It is I, John, who heard and saw these things, and when I heard and saw them I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me.
9 But he said to me, “Don’t! I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brothers the prophets and of those who keep the message of this book. Worship God.”
 

Which is all very well -​

  • if (& the “if” is a very big one) - all or most of the above reasons are valid;
  • and, if (again, a very big “if” indeed) “being right” in matters accessible to reason is the most important, or else, an essential, thing about Christianity
  • and, if (again, a very big “if” indeed) the rightness of the Church is the most important, or else, an essential, thing about Christianity.
    All three of these need to be granted, before people accept the validity of the 42 reasons you want them to accept.
And not everyone, Christian or otherwise, finds the Catholic emphasis on & fondness for intellectual certainty necessary, or even attractive. Or even convincing - the Apostles did not preach intellectual certainty, but a Jesus Risen from the dead; they preached a Person, not a body of infallibly certain propositions. Claims to certainty can repel as well as attract.

Quite apart from the moral problems in Catholicism (not that it alone has them). What is the good in being right intellectually, if one (or the Church one belongs to) is a mess morally ?
 
**33. **1 Timothy 2:1

1 First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions,

I doubt that banging people over the head as hard as you do will return what you want. You can get more for your effort with a softer approach. Basically your approach is a massive turn off. But I betcha it makes you feel like you are doing a great job for your church. I don’t agree.
 
I doubt that banging people over the head as hard as you do will return what you want. You can get more for your effort with a softer approach. Basically your approach is a massive turn off. But I betcha it makes you feel like you are doing a great job for your church. I don’t agree.
Hello Namesake, :dancing:

I missed you, thank to for you post! 👍
 
I don’t really see the point of your whole exercise in this thread.

Protestants do believe in intercessory prayer for each other. We do it all the time. We do not deny that the deceased saints are in Heaven; and by this I mean all true dead Christians as known only to God and not the Saints as canonized by the Catholic Church. We have communion with them as part of Christ’s church and through Him as its head.

As far as I can see not one of the passages you quote tells us to pray to anyone in Heaven but God and does not show anyone doing so. While I would feel sure that certain people like the Apostles are surely in Heaven, I would not presume to assume anyone else is. Paul tells us not to judge before the time.
For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.
(1 Corinthians 4:4-5 NASB)
There is no harm to praying for the dead, although I see no real use for it either because the deceased are either in Heaven or not. Our prayers will not change that.

I do notice that a number of your quotes come from the Apochrypha which are not convincing to me.
 
You are going to have to explain your reasons better, for many of your reasons, I cannot fathom what you are trying to prove is false?

Please keep the following in mind too:
  1. You are targeting Protestants with some of your “proofs” from texts they(we) do not believe are inerrant.
  2. I do not know of ANY Protestant Denomination that believes Praying for others is wrong. (some of your chosen scriptures are just dealing with praying for people.)
  3. Scriptures obviously show instances where Saints were allowed to know what was going on on earth and even return to speak with people. That doesn’t mean they all can do that all the time and can definitely hear all our thoughts and every uttered request that we feel like directing towards them.
  4. I think moist protestants have no objection to the idea that Saints in heaven pray to God. I believe the Saints even pray in a general sense for the people still living and for the state of the world.
  5. By “dead” we do not mean they are gone forever (or even temporarily) but that they are separated from their earthly lives. A different state than they were before.We also do mean spiritually dead and unable to pray. Have you banished the word “dead” completely from your vocabulary? If not, what do you mean when you say it?
  6. We do not have any religious beliefs against people being resurrected… after all Jesus raised people from the dead including Himself!
  7. Those who have died are not taken from the Body of Christ nor from His love.
  8. We do believe in Angels.
 
You are going to have to explain your reasons better, for many of your reasons, I cannot fathom what you are trying to prove is false?

Please keep the following in mind too:
  1. You are targeting Protestants with some of your “proofs” from texts they(we) do not believe are inerrant.
  2. I do not know of ANY Protestant Denomination that believes Praying for others is wrong. (some of your chosen scriptures are just dealing with praying for people.)
  3. Scriptures obviously show instances where Saints were allowed to know what was going on on earth and even return to speak with people. That doesn’t mean they all can do that all the time and can definitely hear all our thoughts and every uttered request that we feel like directing towards them.
  4. I think moist protestants have no objection to the idea that Saints in heaven pray to God. I believe the Saints even pray in a general sense for the people still living and for the state of the world.
  5. By “dead” we do not mean they are gone forever (or even temporarily) but that they are separated from their earthly lives. A different state than they were before.We also do mean spiritually dead and unable to pray. Have you banished the word “dead” completely from your vocabulary? If not, what do you mean when you say it?
  6. We do not have any religious beliefs against people being resurrected… after all Jesus raised people from the dead including Himself!
  7. Those who have died are not taken from the Body of Christ nor from His love.
  8. We do believe in Angels.
The Communion of the Saints, Intercessory Prayer and as “Protestants” put it “praying to and for dead people”.
 
Another baiting thread - even worse, with some inaccuracies about the Protestant faith.

Be better than this, Jimmy. Please.:gopray:
 
seems like you are trying the squeeze a square peg into a round hole
 
i’m sorry but it takes at least 43 reasons to even get my attention. you need to come up with at least one more. 50 is a nice round number and that would appeal to me even more. 75 would probably go a long way to convincing me. 100 would just upend my entire world. :rolleyes:
 
Another baiting thread - even worse, with some inaccuracies about the Protestant faith.

Be better than this, Jimmy. Please.:gopray:
Ok, I will, I’m Sorry.😊 BTW, fishing is my favorite hobby…trout fishing that is, when I do that, I usually use orange “sparkly” power bait or night crawlers, sometimes superddupers and sometimes castmasters …😃 Long CAF posts don’t work so well at the lake.🤷

Thank you 👍
 
i’m sorry but it takes at least 43 reasons to even get my attention. you need to come up with at least one more. 50 is a nice round number and that would appeal to me even more. 75 would probably go a long way to convincing me. 100 would just upend my entire world. :rolleyes:
Be careful what you ask for…:cool:
 
seems like you are trying the squeeze a square peg into a round hole
Trust me, it all fits, that is what’s so interesting about the Bible, it’s a “Catholic Book”, so it is impossible for me to post a Bible verse, which doesn’t support Catholicism….Go ahead, pick one and I’ll prove it to you. :cool:
 
Trust me, it all fits, that is what’s so interesting about the Bible, it’s a “Catholic Book”, so it is impossible for me to post a Bible verse, which doesn’t support Catholicism….Go ahead, pick one and I’ll prove it to you. :cool:
I do not see where any of those verse support just catholicism. They do support Christianity as a whole but more specifically Protestantism.

Why do’nt you tell us how they all support cathilocism. by the way the Bible does not say it is a catholic book
 
Ok, I will, I’m Sorry.😊 BTW, fishing is my favorite hobby…trout fishing that is, when I do that, I usually use orange “sparkly” power bait or night crawlers, sometimes superddupers and sometimes castmasters …😃 Long CAF posts don’t work so well at the lake.🤷

Thank you 👍
When I was in seminary in Georgia, it was the only time I ever went fishing in my life. Loved trout fishing on the Chattahoochie.I can see the al-lure.

No pun intended. 🙂

O+
 
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