If you can be a good person without God then why need Him?

[meltzerboy]

Many people who do not believe in a God do strive for improvement throughout their lives.

The problem with using a God for one’s moral compass is…most Gods have committed terrible, immoral, unfair acts that He or She would severely punish a mortal being for committing. In fact, acts that would send a mortal to the hell they’ve created forever.

I know so many people who have a higher standard of behavior and better moral compass than the main Gods people follow today.

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I concur that atheists may also strive for improvement, but the question, to me, is what is the standard of improvement they have adopted apart from that generated by religious teaching? Surely not that of their own society and culture devoid of religion. IOW I am suggesting they may be following certain religious principles without knowing it for it is not atheism that provides them with this morality. I also question your statement regarding the “terrible, immoral, and unfair acts” committed by most gods. For example, every act by G-d in the Hebrew Bible can be explained (admittedly, some would argue, explained away) by Hebrew scholars learned in the Tanakh. One other point. Judaism does not dwell on the afterlife, particularly not on hell. Neither does it speak of heavenly salvation in the Christian sense of the term. Living moral values in the here and now is its main concern. But how does one know what is moral and what is not if one is not at least exposed to the moral principles found in religion or the concept of G-d, which, of course, is no guarantee of one’s following through? But without ANY exposure to religion or G-d, it may become harder to make the appropriate choices to live a moral life even though the divine spark, conscience, integrity can be found, I believe, in all of us.

 

[Estevao]

Many will say…there is no need.
That people created Gods and still create Gods because there was a psychological and emotional need at the time for explanations of the world around us and for comfort.

Of course…if you believe there is a hell and that you are going to go there forever unless you follow your religion’s instructions on how to please the God of your choice, then…I assume that’s a reason many feel they “need” a God.
To not go to this hell we hear about.

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Can you explain this to me? I’m confused. I often hear secularists say that religion is something people make up because it makes them feel good, but then that doesn’t really jive with the concept of hell, because that’s not a concept one would create if one were to create a religion in their own image and to suit one’s need for comfort.

Maybe I’ll go and ask this in the non-catholic religions forums to get the opinion of some secularists on this common confused charge.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

An Atheist or Agnostic does not necessarily rule out the supernatural and/or supernatural love.

It’s true God loves the atheist and the agnostic. He gave both of them the same free will he gives believers. But it would seem they don’t love God for the gift of life, do not thank him, and do not wish to be with him forever. Because this loving God is not a tyrant, this loving God has no choice but to grant them their wish. It is a perverse wish, but God is bound by justice to give them what they ask for … spiritual annihilation.

They needn’t comfort themselves by supposing that because they put somebody through college, paid their taxes, and stayed out of jail, they are as good as any Christians and they get a free pass into heaven.

I hear that kind of logic all over this website and it really puzzles me that it is not seen as the point of view the devil would like everybody to follow, for then the Church would be made irrelevant and we can all go to hell where it is said the miserable love company.

 

[abucs]

I believe the divine spark is within each of us. Christians may call this the Holy Spirit or grace.

In addition to the other excellent answers given here, I might add another.

I don’t think we can say that a nonbeliever is altogether “without God.” If he is a good man, then the goodness that he has comes from God, whether of not he is aware of that fact.

I agree with these two posters. God is the goodness we reflect in our choices.
I can breathe oxygen without realising I am breathing oxygen, but then it’s incorrect to claim I don’t need oxygen to breathe just because I don’t realise I am doing it.

So then the question is do I need religion. Perhaps not necessarily, but it helps to know what you are doing.

 

[St_Francis]

Many will say…there is no need.
That people created Gods and still create Gods because there was a psychological and emotional need at the time for explanations of the world around us and for comfort.

Of course…if you believe there is a hell and that you are going to go there forever unless you follow your religion’s instructions on how to please the God of your choice, then…I assume that’s a reason many feel they “need” a God.
To not go to this hell we hear about.

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You do realize that if God exists, only one religion can be correct? If you are indeed discerning, it seems that is what you should be looking into, instead of always sounding like a disciple of Dawkins’.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

You do realize that if God exists, only one religion can be correct? If you are indeed discerning, it seems that is what you should be looking into, instead of always sounding like a disciple of Dawkins’.

I agree. It is a doubtful way of discerning, unless DaddyGirl is trying to pull away from the Dawkins way of thinking and is looking for answers to the claptrap Dawkins argues.

 

[schaeffer]

Can you explain this to me? I’m confused. I often hear secularists say that religion is something people make up because it makes them feel good, but then that doesn’t really jive with the concept of hell, because that’s not a concept one would create if one were to create a religion in their own image and to suit one’s need for comfort.

Maybe I’ll go and ask this in the non-catholic religions forums to get the opinion of some secularists on this common confused charge.

I was thinking about this yesterday as well.

It’s a claim that is thrown around by non believers as well as by people of one faith to people of another…that people just pick a religion to make them feel warm and fuzzy.

Yeah? not so much.

If this is warm and fuzzy, I’d hate to see what so called “reality” looks like.

 

[lynnanine]

I’m going to preface this by saying I didn’t really read the previous replies, so if it’s covered already, my apologies!

I recall hearing somewhere this sentence: You don’t need God to be good but you need God to have good. I’m going to see if I can remember the talk that had that later, but basically it boiled down to what good really means and how can you have something that is good without having an objective good. We need God for objective moral values to exist. I’m sure that Trent Horn has covered this in the radio shows; that’s probably where I heard it to begin with.

I’m doing an absolutely terrible job at explaining it. >.< Hopefully I’ll be back later with a link–I haven’t quite got the time right now for an extensive reply!

 

[Duane1966]

There are many good people who are atheists and agnostics. Some of them are better than Catholics and Christians I have known personally. I just always wonder if you can control your own selfish or evil impulses and you truly love your neighbor as yourself, why would you need God or religion? When I think people who need God, I think those with issues like alcoholism, promiscuity, poor self-esteem, poor, etc. If you are kind, well-put together person, why would you need to believe in God? What difference would it make in your life anyways? Some people can find peace within themselves, they are very independent and self-reliant and kind. Why need God? If we have full control over our decisions, why do we often to choose to sin? Why can’t people simply stop sinning, why do we need Jesus’s redemption or forgiveness at all if it is our own choice? Or are humans so helpless they honestly cannot stop sinning?

Who is the judge of who is good?

 

[JapaneseKappa]

I was thinking about this yesterday as well.

It’s a claim that is thrown around by non believers as well as by people of one faith to people of another…that people just pick a religion to make them feel warm and fuzzy.

Yeah? not so much.

If this is warm and fuzzy, I’d hate to see what so called “reality” looks like.

Really? I think people derive a great deal of comfort from the idea that “bad people” will eventually be punished.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Even Pope Francis said in February: “Nobody is perfect”.
And regarding redemption, he points out that “even the Atheists” are redeemed.

Atheists are redeemed only if they agree to be redeemed and earn their redemption.

I don’t believe atheists agree to being redeemed since they don’t believe in a Redeemer.

 

[MarlenenM]

It surprises me that you would say this…as a catholic, I was told that with God all things possible. Perhaps He does recognize other religions…they all love him but perceive religion somewhat differently. And please why is it necessary for you to try and diminish a person with such stuff as calling then a "disciple of Dawkins’. Discussions can enlighten but name calling is childless.

You do realize that if God exists, only one religion can be correct? If you are indeed discerning, it seems that is what you should be looking into, instead of always sounding like a disciple of Dawkins’.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

I agree with these two posters. God is the goodness we reflect in our choices.
I can breathe oxygen without realising I am breathing oxygen, but then it’s incorrect to claim I don’t need oxygen to breathe just because I don’t realise I am doing it.

So then the question is do I need religion. Perhaps not necessarily, but it helps to know what you are doing.

If all goodness comes from God, why need religion? Why go to confession, fast, attend mass, avoid the near occasion of sin? If you can be a good person without God, why go to church? What relevance is any religion? Does it make you a weaker human being if you need God, Jesus or church to be a good human being?

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Really? I think people derive a great deal of comfort from the idea that “bad people” will eventually be punished.

I guess for some. Doesn’t the mean everyone will be punished? I can not think one of person that is just so kind and loving all the time. Everyone transgress, whether they acknowledge it or not. God does not only punish the wicked. Maybe I just need to read my bible. Thanks for all your replies.

 

[MPat]

If all goodness comes from God, why need religion?

Sorry, but I don’t really see what is supposed to be a problem here…

Our goal is to stay in Gods friendship for all eternity. Why wouldn’t one expect religion (that is, communication with him) to be helpful in achieving that goal? And if all goodness comes from God, why wouldn’t keeping in touch with Him be a good idea?

Why go to confession, fast, attend mass, avoid the near occasion of sin? If you can be a good person without God, why go to church?

One cannot be good without God’s help. Now one might get that help without noticing, but the help is still there.

You might wish to try an experiment: go to confession, receive communion and observe how easy it is to resist various temptations before and after that. I suspect that you will find that resisting temptation becomes significantly easier after receiving sacraments.

What relevance is any religion? Does it make you a weaker human being if you need God, Jesus or church to be a good human being?

Weaker than who? All of us are fallen. All of us need lots of God’s help even to stay “somewhat good”. The Church does teach that we are weak.

 

[schaeffer]

Really? I think people derive a great deal of comfort from the idea that “bad people” will eventually be punished.

You’re right I absolutely HAVE heard people say that.

 

[JapaneseKappa]

I guess for some. Doesn’t the mean everyone will be punished? I can not think one of person that is just so kind and loving all the time. Everyone transgress, whether they acknowledge it or not. God does not only punish the wicked. Maybe I just need to read my bible. Thanks for all your replies.

I don’t make the rules.

Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[c] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

 

[St_Francis]

It surprises me that you would say this…as a catholic, I was told that with God all things possible.

Yes, with God, all possible things are possible, but impossible things are not possible. So, things can be one thing only, like a woman can’t be a little bit pregnant: she is either pregnant or she is not pregnant. If Catholicism is correct, then any disagreement with Catholicism is incorrect. God cannot reconcile truth and untruth.

Perhaps He does recognize other religions…they all love him but perceive religion somewhat differently.

I’m sure God recognizes the existence of what we call other religions, but He also sees the errors. I know many Protestants who love Christ and God very much, but who do believe things which are wrong.

The way we perceive religion really has nothing to do with anything, what matters is how *God *perceives religion, no? Christ became Man and died on the cross for us; He told us that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Singular, not plural: one Truth.

I am sure that there are many who were not apparently attached to the Catholic Church on earth who are in Heaven, because they had a great love for God in the little they knew of Him. God judges us, we don’t.

And please why is it necessary for you to try and diminish a person with such stuff as calling then a "disciple of Dawkins’.

She has written that she is discerning in the area of religion (see the upper right-hand corner of her posts) yet she continually sounds very atheistic. She does not sound like she is discerning or trying to learn, that’s why I said she **sounds like **a disciple of Dawkins.

Discussions can enlighten but name calling is childless.

Perhaps I was too brash in my admonition–I meant to describe the impression she gives rather than say that she was a disciple of Dawkins’.

 

[St_Francis]

I guess for some. Doesn’t the mean everyone will be punished? I can not think one of person that is just so kind and loving all the time. Everyone transgress, whether they acknowledge it or not. God does not only punish the wicked. Maybe I just need to read my bible. Thanks for all your replies.

Pelagia,
Do you have a catechism? The Bible is wonderful, of course, but in terms of learning what Catholics believe, the Bible is not a textbook, and the catechisms are.

God will judge each of us upon our death. He will judge us according to the state of our souls at that time. The way to be in really good shape at that unknown time of death is to continually be in a state of friendship with God throughout our lives. Even the saints say they heard people say they would reconnect with God when this project was finished, or that child was raised, or when they retired… and then did not live to see that time. They weren’t ready when they died because they did not make the smallest amount of time for God.

I have been reading this blog by Msgr Charles Pope more and more lately, and I think he relates the Bible to the way Catholics should live really well; I think you would enjoy what he says and learn a lot from him.

 

[St_Francis]

I guess for some. Doesn’t the mean everyone will be punished? I can not think one of person that is just so kind and loving all the time. Everyone transgress, whether they acknowledge it or not. God does not only punish the wicked. Maybe I just need to read my bible. Thanks for all your replies.

It occurred to me that maybe we should check to make sure you understand about Purgatory and Hell as well as Heaven–do you?