If you could, what changes if any would you make to the Ordinary Form?

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TBH, I am really surprised this thread is still open.

I didn’t understand the point in the beginning and I still don’t.

We are very lucky that now, we have both the OF and the EF available to us.

Why would you want to change anything? We have 2 beautiful expressions of our faith, and in my area, I have my choice of about 20 different parishes within a 20 minute drive where I can have chant at one Mass, no music at another, traditional Catholic hymns at another and contemporary music at another, along with all the trappings that go with each style.

We are divided enough, and this pitting of one form against another, which is exactly what this thread is doing, does no good for anyone or the Church.
 
Abrogate it and proceed with reform of the EF in line with Tradition and Orthodoxy.
 
By reform I am referring to the gradual change that has occured over the centuries from Gregory the Great down to the mid-twentieth century.

Also, new feasts might be added.
 
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My priest uses EPII almost every Sunday, but he chants the entire preface and Eucharistic prayer. I think that’s a fair trade-off. On particularly solemn Sundays (eg Pentecost), he’ll chant EPI (Roman Canon).
 
Gradual changes can be made to the Mass. Pope St Pius X for instance made some minor changes to the Roman rite before VII. What I myself am suggesting does not involve changing the ordinary of the OF, but rather making detailed specifications in the rubrics that will prevent further abuse.
 
No. The rites of the sacraments were untainted by modernism until the pre-conciliar reforms that began in the post-war period. But we must recognize that the rites may continue to develop in a way… I am not sure how to say it. But the very existence of the many rites within the Church, all stemming from the Last Supper of our Lord, tells us that the rites undergo development (not unlike development of doctrine), whereas the sacraments are immutable.

The whole “two forms of one rite” thing has never sat comfortably with me. What other rite has multiple forms?
 
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Ryan1 said:
No. The rites of the sacraments were untainted by modernism
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Liturgy was evolving long before the post wwii period. The “Dialogue Mass” was an innovation that was started before WWII. The idea of the faithful following along with hand missals came along in the 19th Century.

Pope Pius X, in the first decade of the 20th Century, reduced the age for children to receive communion, and opened up communion to the people , encouraging frequent reception. The lay saints of the 19th Century did not receive communion at every Mass, and needless to say neither did more ordinary Catholics.
 
DeoVindice1863 said:
I would change it to the EF
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If the church went back to Latin Mass as the only Mass, it would pose a lot of problems. Teaching thousands of priests Latin would be a major league undertaking- not to recruiting and training legions of altar boys.

And even after all that, large portions of the Faithful would have no idea what’s coming down, and many would be stripped of their reader and EM roles. IMHO, attendance would sink at least for a while
 
I don’t know exactly when modernism began to creep in to the liturgy, but from what I have read, much of it began with the pre-conciliar reforms of Holy Week. The Devil is bold if nothing else.
 
It is still the language of the Church. We should all strive to learn as much Latin as we can.
 
Doesn’t change the fact that the majority of priests never use and were never taught how to speak Latin while in the seminary. A gentleman I shared a cubicle with at work for several years washed out of the seminary with just a year to go and didn’t know enough Latin to read the motto off of pack of cigarettes.

My point is that there just isn’t many Latin competent priests or laypeople out there in the Catholic Church. Back in the day, before I was in school, almost every educated person in America- regardless of their religious persuasion- studied Latin. Ain’t the case today.
 
What? Are you talking about converts?

Oh, I get it–singing the Ave Maria at weddings and such.

Any professional musician or voice student will learn how to sing in various languages, including Latin.

It doesn’t mean they understand it. They have the translation, but to correlate the English (or whatever the native language is) with the foreign language would not be easily accomplished by most people who were only trained to pronounce, not read.
 
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Are you some linguistics expert who knows exactly what people understand and what they don’t?
 
I suspect that many Catholics, especially the converts, would faithfully attend Mass out of obedience and love for the Lord Jesus and His Blessed Mother, but find a way to also attend a weekly Protestant fellowship of their choice in order to hear and sing the great hymns or contemporary praise and worship songs (whatever their preference is).

I personally would really miss singing hymns.

When were kicked out of our Protestant church and didn’t attend any church for a year, I cried the first time I was back in a church (which happened to be Catholic) and they sang “Gather Us In.” I didn’t know the hymn, had never heard it, but I loved it so much (along with the accompaniment), that I copied it out of the hymnal onto a napkin that I had in my purse.

I just LOVE playing and singing hymns with my fellow Christians standing around me.! Listening to them on a record or a radio just isn’t the same, although it’s nice.

I think that music is so important to many Americans that they would crave more than a music-less Mass, or even a chanted Mass. For many American’s, chant is just not music–it’s chant. I think the Church would see a lot of Catholics, especially older Catholics, heading to Protestant services to hear the great German hymns (Lutheran), the gospel hymns (Baptist), the American revival hymns, (almost any Evangelical denominations), the classical works (many of the mainline churches, especially Episcopal or Anglican), the contemporary praise (Evangelical Protestants), the Christian rock songs and boomer rock (Evangelical, non-denoms, and some mainlines), and of course, the P and W (non-denoms and others who are trying it out with varying success!).

I play piano/organ at various churches, and I dearly love the hymns. I try to bring my skills at accompanying these hymns to Catholic parishes, and most of the parishioners who approach me after Mass are very happy with my efforts. One of my friends says, “You liven up the hymns!” My great joy is to hear the people singing when I accompany them. If they don’t sing, I have failed. (A congregational hymn is intended to be sung by the congregation, not merely listened to.)
 
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I was discussing with my seminary washout friend Life cigarettes, who had the Latin motto “Magna Vita Est”

Packaged (past tense): Life Cigarettes | BEACH

Packaged (past tense) looks at Frank Gianninoto's package design for Life Cigarettes
beachpackagingdesign.com beachpackagingdesign.com

In any event, my entire point is that there isn’t much of a Latin knowledge base in the Catholic church in 2018, and it would be an incredible effort , time and money, to bring it up to a level where Latin Mass could be said universally.
 
The normal music should be the traditionally structured chant in Latin, and hymns can be used sparsely and for special occasions. No Cheesie Campfire songs!

Prayers and responses repeated in every Liturgy, such as the Act of Penitence, Niceane Creed (possibly), responses to the Anaphora, Noster Pater, Agnes Dei, etc. ought to be in Latin as well. The Kyrie ought to be in Greek.

We need to weave tradition back into the Mass.

Christi pax.
 
I disagree. As someone who has taught languages I can tell you that it would not really take that long, at least for current priests. To teach them to say the prayers of the Mass with proper pronunciation and understanding could be accomplished in only a few weeks of part-time study, and there are multiple texts/audio programs designed specifically for this purpose. More in-depth study could then be developed for those still in seminary (even though it was never supposed to be removed from the curriculum) as they have significantly more time. Even for them though, little more than 2 years would be necessary to develop a sufficient knowledge to celebrate the Mass and the sacraments, and to read Latin documents without the aid of a dictionary. Really, it’s not a difficult language.
 
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