"If you died right now, are you 100% sure you would go to Heaven? (St. Paul wasn't)

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Yes I am confident that if I died today I will be in heaven because I believe God to keep His promises.

I have faith that what I read in the Word of God is true and I have hope and love.😃 :dancing: :extrahappy: :love:

AMEN LORD !!!
So you are perfect right now?
 
LOL Your kidding right? If I was perfect I would be Christ. Since Im not Christ then Im not perfect.😉
Yes, I was kidding (sorta). So you are not perfect now. You know 100% that you’ll get to Heaven. You will be perfect when/if you get to Heaven, right? If so, what changed from your state of not being perfect now to being perfect in Heaven?
 
Yes, I was kidding (sorta). So you are not perfect now. You know 100% that you’ll get to Heaven. You will be perfect when/if you get to Heaven, right? If so, what changed from your state of not being perfect now to being perfect in Heaven?
Putting my faith in Christ and trusting Him for my salvation.😃

Of only God knows how this works but He says it does so I believe:thumbsup:

I mean who I am to question God:eek: --right?
 
Putting my faith in Christ and trusting Him for my salvation.😃

Of only God knows how this works but He says it does so I believe:thumbsup:

I mean who I am to question God:eek: --right?
Yep, sounds like another explanation of Purgatory to me. You’re not “clean” now, but you will be clean when/if in Heaven. That’s some type of cleansing process taking place. Catholics call that Purgatory.
 
How do you answer this allforhim?

Question: Not that I am suggesting anyone do this, but how do you view suicide? I mean, if there is nothing you can do to derail your “Heaven Train”, why not commit suicide and be with Him in Paradise forever right now?
 
Yep, sounds like another explanation of Purgatory to me. You’re not “clean” now, but you will be clean when/if in Heaven. That’s some type of cleansing process taking place. Catholics call that Purgatory.
Even though I do not believe in purgatory , I do understand where the catholics get this belief.

I just hope you have the same immense sense of freedom that I have.

Since I have accepted Christ as my Savior knowing that He has accepted me(sins and imperfections and all)I have had this overwhelming want to really truly follow God’s plan for my life and to glorify Him in all I do.
The best part is being free to follow Him out of pure love:love: and without any fear looming over my head of condemnation.😃

God Bless
 
Even though I do not believe in purgatory , I do understand where the catholics get this belief.

I just hope you have the same immense sense of freedom that I have.

Since I have accepted Christ as my Savior knowing that He has accepted me(sins and imperfections and all)I have had this overwhelming want to really truly follow God’s plan for my life and to glorify Him in all I do.
The best part is being free to follow Him out of pure love:love: and without any fear looming over my head of condemnation.😃

God Bless
You sound very sincere and in love. Keep seeking the truth. Just realize that the OSAS doctrine is VERY dangerous! Care to answer my suicide question?
 
Even though I do not believe in purgatory , I do understand where the catholics get this belief.
I think it’s more accurate to say you don’t believe in the **term **Purgatory. You already stated you believe in the concept.
 
How do you answer this allforhim?

Question: Not that I am suggesting anyone do this, but how do you view suicide? I mean, if there is nothing you can do to derail your “Heaven Train”, why not commit suicide and be with Him in Paradise forever right now?
Good question:thumbsup: I have asked my minister about this in the past. I cant remember what he said exactly (because Im getting older and seem to be losing my memory:( ) so I found a good example on gotquestions.org.
Question: “What is the Christian view of suicide? What does the Bible say about suicide?”
Answer: According to the Bible, whether a person commits suicide is not what determines whether he or she gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he or she has done nothing but “expedite” his or her journey to the lake of fire. However, the person who committed suicide will ultimately be in hell for rejecting salvation through Christ, not because he or she committed suicide. The Bible mentions five specific people who committed suicide: Abimelech (Judges 9:54), Saul (1 Samuel 31:4), Saul’s armor-bearer (1 Samuel 31:4-6), Ahithophel (2 Samuel 17:23), Zimri (1 Kings 16:18), and Judas (Matthew 27:5). All of them were wicked, evil, sinful men (not enough is said regarding Saul’s armor-bearer to make a judgment as to his character). Some consider Samson an instance of suicide (Judges 16:26-31), but Samson’s goal was to kill the Philistines, not himself. The Bible views suicide as equal to murder – that’s what it is – self-murder. God is the One who is to decide when and how a person should die. To take that power into your own hands, according to the Bible, is blasphemy to God.
What does the Bible say about a Christian who commits suicide? I do not believe that a Christian who commits suicide will lose salvation and go to hell. The Bible teaches that from the moment a person truly believes in Christ, he or she is eternally secure (John 3:16). According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life no matter what happens. “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God” (1 John 5:13). Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love! “For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:38-39). If no “created thing” can separate a Christian from God’s love, and even a Christian who commits suicide is a “created thing,” then not even suicide can separate him from God’s love. Jesus died for all of our sins…and if a true Christian were to, in a time of spiritual attack and weakness, commit suicide - that would be a sin that Jesus died for.
This is not to say that suicide is not a serious sin against God. According to the Bible, suicide is murder; it is always wrong. I would have serious doubts about the genuineness of faith of anyone who claimed to be a Christian yet committed suicide. There is no circumstance that can justify someone, especially a Christian, taking his or her own life. Christians are called to live their lives for God – the decision on when to die is God’s and God’s alone. Perhaps a good way to illustrate suicide for a Christian would be from the Book of Esther. The Persians had a law that anyone who came before the king uninvited could be put to death unless the king extended his scepter towards the person - indicating mercy. Suicide for a Christian would be forcing your way in to see the King instead of waiting for Him to summon you. He will point His scepter towards you, sparing your eternal life, but that does not mean He is happy with you. Although it is not describing suicide, the Bible verse 1 Corinthians 3:15 is probably a good description of what happens to a Christian who commits suicide: “He himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.”
The bolded part is where I think catholics get the idea of purgatory. This verse is talking about Judgement Day for the believer. This is where our works are being judged. But if you notice the last part it does say we will still be saved. So this means we already had salvation but are now being judged by what we did after our initial justification(salvation)and whether or not they were worthy of God. This is where rewards comes in or loss of them.(whole other topic)

Hope that helps:thumbsup:
 
You sound very sincere and in love. Keep seeking the truth. Just realize that the OSAS doctrine is VERY dangerous! Care to answer my suicide question?
Why do you think OSAS is dangerous? I did answer but you will see that;) We are just crosiing computer paths:p 😃

If I dont answer back it is because I have to take my daughter to school and then go to her field hockey game. So, I will try to answer later.👍
 
Why do you think OSAS is dangerous?
Thanks for answering my suicide question. A “saved” person that commits suicide will be in Heaven. The Catholic Church doesn’t disagree. If you truly believe this, why not do it? AGAIN, I’M NOT SUGGESTING YOU ACTUALLY DO THIS!!!

Why OSAS is dangerous!:
If you are wrong, which you could be unless you are an infallible interpreter of Scripture, your salvation is at risk. You are not as conscientious of your sins because in the end it doesn’t really matter - you have “accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior” so nothing you do or don’t do can prevent you from going to Heaven.

If the Catholic Church is right, you can lose your salvation. Why take the chance? The OSAS doctrine was invented by Calvin, correct? The only distinction between a true Christian and a superficial Christian is that the superficial Christian did not persevere to the end. Otherwise, the two types of Christians appear to be the same. The superficial Christian has all the earmarks of a true Christian except that he did not persevere. But this necessarily means that the true Christian cannot know that he really is a true Christian either until the end of his life. He, too, won’t know whether his conversion was genuine until the end of his life. Therefore, despite all the talk about assurance, he cannot be sure.

This doctrine, therefore, actually gives its adherents less assurance of their salvation. It necessarily imposes upon them uncertainty until the end. The Catholic (and Scriptural) view, however, does give assurance to the believer that he is in fact currently saved (a true Christian), and that, if he perseveres to the end, he will be saved at death. We also know that God will give all the graces necessary for us to be faithful to the end (because of our freewill, the question is always whether we will accept the grace or not). Thus, Catholics know that it is theirs to lose. Protestant Calvinists don’t even know whether it is theirs to begin with.
 
Thanks for answering my suicide question. A “saved” person that commits suicide will be in Heaven. The Catholic Church doesn’t disagree. If you truly believe this, why not do it? AGAIN, I’M NOT SUGGESTING YOU ACTUALLY DO THIS!!!
 
Lampo;2821919:
Your welcome

LOL dont worry I dont plan on committing suicide;) Why not do it–well because God has chosen me to do good works to glorify Him and to spread the gospel–so I cant possibly do that if I kill myself–right?😉

No, you can’t do that, but you would still go to Heaven in your theology. Wouldn’t being face to face with God in Heaven be even better than doing good works to glorify Him and spreading the Gospel? You can glorify him in Heaven!
AHH–on the contrary–I am all to aware of my sins. You know how—whenever I commit a sin, the Holy Spirit IMMEDIATELY CONVICTS me of it.

What’s the punishment?

I do mean immediately:eek: If I do not confess that sin and make things right with someone if need be–I feel miserable until I do.

But that’s all. Still no consequences for your sin.

I cannot rest–Im constantly thinking about it. That is the Holy Spirit pushing me to CONFESS;)

But if you never get the chance, that’s okay because you are still going to Heaven, right?

Honestly, it came from Paul and Christ and the other apostles.😉

Will you point me to the chapter and verse that says this? Paul said, “work out your salvation in fear and trembling.” He also said that HE could be disqualified at the end. If ANYONE in Christianity would think they are saved it would be St. Paul! (Phil. 2:12; 1 Cor. 9:27 respectively

The superficial christian cant perservere to the end because they dont have Christ in them.

You don’t “feel” that you are one of those superficial Christians, right? But you do sin, right? What if it is the “end” IMMEDIATELY after you commit a sin and have NO chance to confess? Then in your theology, were you actually a superficial Christian? You didn’t persevere to the end.

The only way we can perservere is with the help of the Holy Spirit. Well we may be able to tell by their fruit or lack of it. I firmly believe that when you become saved YOU KNOW because there is a change in you. My character has changed dramatically.I mean we are told that we become a new creature in Christ.
I wanted to finish but I have to go to my daughters game. Ill be back:D
 
I know of people who “accepted Jesus as personal Lord and Savior” and are now leading “not-so-moral” lives. Does OSAS apply to them, too? :confused:

By the way, where is this phrase of “accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior to be totally sure of your salvation” in the Bible? I certainly have not read this anywhere! And who came up with the “altar call” concept?

When I read the Bible, I find that Jesus wants us to take up our cross and follow Him… sounds like a daily conversion process to me! 😉
 
, but as it is, God is responsible for our separation from Him when He created the first parents in the flesh.
Wow!! Did you really just say that?!

Back to the original topic, maybe you should go to a nice quiet place and read Matthew 25. Then read it again. Yes God will always keep his promise. YOU, however have no way of knowing if you’ll keep YOUR promise to Him.
 
The bolded part is where I think catholics get the idea of purgatory. This verse is talking about Judgement Day for the believer. This is where our works are being judged. But if you notice the last part it does say we will still be saved. So this means we already had salvation but are now being judged by what we did after our initial justification(salvation)and whether or not they were worthy of God. This is where rewards comes in or loss of them.(whole other topic)

Hope that helps:thumbsup:
It sheds more light on purgatory if the WHOLE verse is quoted, not just the last half. In full it reads:

“If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire”

Now this causes a dilema. Where is this place? It can’t be heaven, since there is no suffering, which the fire symbolizes. Yet it can’t be referring to hell since nobody will be saved from there.
 
But if the person doesn’t use it wisely, rejects God’s grace, violates all Ten Commandments up until his death without repentance, it really doesn’t matter in the end because he is saved anyway, right? Does that really make sense to you?>>> Lampo
It makes absolutely no sense at all coming from a view that is traditional heaven/hell destination.
The heaven/hell view demands a person by reason of fear of hell become converted.
Granted, for many, this is the only way they will be led to repent.

To really get a grasp of universal salvation, one needs to understand why mankind fell and how it is delivered from the fall.

Since Adam was created, he had no power over his own creation, thus being subject to whatever conditions God placed him in.

What this means is that salvation is not of man, but of God, which man could of itself not accomplish even with all it’s good works.
Question: Not that I am suggesting anyone do this, but how do you view suicide? I mean, if there is nothing you can do to derail your “Heaven Train”, why not commit suicide and be with Him in Paradise forever right now?>>> Lampo
You recall reading this verse: 2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Does this not sound as though Paul had a glimpse of heaven and would have preferred to be there instead of here?

If we all knew our outcome, we would let our guard down and live like hell for we would know we were to be saved anyway right?

That is why universal salvation, though true, is not preached just because of irresponsible thinking.
See, the whole object of giving mankind the ability to intelligently make choices is so that, that soul out of a world of confusion and suffering may bring order to its life and the image of God produced out of it, which is love.

Jesus could have rejected His suffering and made the world His kingdom as any man could of, but instead, out of all the suffering, pain, trials and rejections, He endured to the end and won the spiritual kingdom for us all.

So once we know and understand this thing of Gods unmerited love for all mankind, our responsibility is to live and love with unmerited love as well towards our fellow man.

Religion discriminates because it needs to keep its followers in line, for many are as babes and in need of constant guidance and direction.

But once Christ has made you free, your love for Him will set the course of your devotions, works and personal sacrifices.

Peace>>>AJ
 
Failure to do good works is not a failure to earn one’s salvation, but a rejection of grace which is ultimately a denial of the power of the Holy Spirit, and that is the “unforgivable sin” (Mark 3:28). It is unforgivable because it is a rejection of Christ. Good works are not something in addition to faith, but the proof that faith exists. The good works in question do not constitute “works salvation” because they were not produced by something within the individual but were in fact accomplished by the grace of God, which is a gift. There is nothing to boast about but much to be thankful for.>>> Lampo
If I would ask a question on the unforgivable sin it would be something like this: If God can forgive all sin except the unforgivable sin, then what would happen if Jesus would have been forgiven prior to dying and going to hell?

Would He have not kept His mission to become the sacrificial lamb for all mankind?

So, the sin Jesus was beholden to, was the unforgivable sin, which had to be paid for without any exceptions.

Because even Jesus could not boast either, for He never took credit, but gave it all to the Father.
The reason why you can lose your salvation is because even after accepting Christ as your “personal Lord and Savior”, a person is still capable of sinning and remaining unrepentant. And repentance is necessary for forgiveness. Scripture is very clear on this point. Listen to Paul’s warning to the Church at Rome: “Do you suppose, then, you who judge those who engage in such things and yet do them yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you hold his priceless kindness, forbearance, and patience in low esteem, unaware that the kindness of God would lead you to repentance?” (Romans 2:4). Jesus Himself warns the Church at Ephesus. He says: "Realize how far you have fallen. Repent, and do the works you did at first. Otherwise, I will come to you and remove your lamp stand from its place, unless you repent (Revelation 2:5).>>> Lampo
First of all, there is this thing called “born again” which has to be considered seriously.
We all are born once of the flesh, but could never go back into our mothers womb and again be born could we?

But, because we are born of the flesh, our spirits are separated from God and this separation then is death to our soul’s spirit, requiring a re-birth.

That is what God in Jesus came to fix, and only that.
So, upon learning and understanding what the tree of life is, one is born of God, spiritually, or born from the death, or re-born or born again, of which is possible because of being once dead.
But of the flesh, Nothing doing.
The early Christians agreed with this teaching as we can see from such writings as the epistle of Barnabas, written around the year 130. In chapter four we read, “So no assumption that we are among the called must ever tempt us to relax our efforts, or fall asleep in our sins, otherwise the prince of evil will obtain control over us, and oust us from the kingdom of the Lord.”>>> Lampo
That is easy to understand because this world is what tries to destroy us (Satan) and the only salvation from that is Godliness.

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

A sad but good example of that been the case, is a very popular female singer that has been constantly in the news who once knew how to worship God in song, has pretty much gotten caught up in the world with severe consequences.
But, that child is still a child of God and needs our prayers that perhaps, she might find it a place to turn around and again see God as she did before.
If she repents, then God is willing to forgive all she has gone through to give her a better life.

So fallen from grace is to just fall, but not fallen from salvation because salvation was not ours to get, but rather ours to receive via our blessed Jesus.

Continued on next post.

AJ
 
Continued from previous post:
When we give our lives to Jesus our free will is not taken away. We do not become robots compelled to feed the poor or avoid sin. We must submit to Christ on a daily basis. As the Scripture says, “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God” (James 4:6-7).>>>Lampo
When you are born again, love takes control over personal wants and desires and creates of you a new creature.
That creature never lost its free will, but now has a responsibility to live right without the fear of ever losing its salvation.
Those are like angels that help the rest of humanity in need.
If the Catholic Church’s teaching on justification is wrong, then so is the Bible and so were the early Christians.>>>Lampo
In my eyes, and Gods eyes, as I see it now, God loves all souls as written in the promises, and therefore I speak against no religion, but encourage each to live their lives with love one to another as God has loved us.

I write in several other forums and I never criticize any of their beliefs, but instead try to bring in what I believe the love of God means to all of us, not just to a few.

Peace>>>AJ
 
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