May I remind us of the religious high priests who accused and condemned Jesus having been forgiven when Jesus’ said, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”.A good example would be the guys that drove the airplanes into the World Trade Center and killed all those innocent people who were planning to go to work and then go home as usual and suspected nothing until the nose of the planes entered the side of their workplace,but by then it was all over but the dying! They worshipped the one god but you talk about SIN!!! I’d hate to have met God with that in my background!!!
True enough. But as humans we need to put one foot ahead of the other and do it and that takes our free will to cooperate with God.More the reason we need the righteiouness of Jesus to save us from our (name removed by moderator)erfections.
After confession, we need to strive to repent (change our ways) to conform to what God desires of us.
Peace>>>AJ
To say that John 15:1–6 is not about salvation is a fairly ridiculous statement to make. Let’s look at this passage for a moment. Jesus is the vine. The vine has branches. The branches are Christians. If you are joined to Christ, you are a Christian. In other words, the branches are those that have been saved through faith in Christ. So, these branches represent “saved” Christians.The branches that were cut off from the vine (Spiritually speaking) were the Jewish nation. They held prior to Christ the only inheritance to God while the rest of the world was without hope.
snip
Wait God does the saving, and has nothing to do with our efforts. So again what are you saying here?I would like to present the view that God does the saving and has nothing to do with our own efforts.
If, our good efforts were a condition for salvation, we would first not be able to attain the perfection required by the law of Moses (Ten Commandments) and second, Jesus would have no need to offer Himself in our behalf.
Think about it and dwell upon it with prayer for clarification from God.
Peace>>>AJ
And you know what, There are so many people like these nuts who have that level of understanding. They think they were going to meet God, and get I forget how many virgins. They take one piece of scripture, turn it around, and fit it into their plan. They forgot one thing, ITs Gods plan that get us into heaven. Not ours.A good example would be the guys that drove the airplanes into the World Trade Center and killed all those innocent people who were planning to go to work and then go home as usual and suspected nothing until the nose of the planes entered the side of their workplace,but by then it was all over but the dying! They worshipped the one god but you talk about SIN!!! I’d hate to have met God with that in my background!!!
You are abosolutely correct!True enough. But as humans we need to put one foot ahead of the other and do it and that takes our free will to cooperate with God.
Something is wrong with that picture everything is wrong with that picture. What church teaches that?There are people, however, who come to the altar, pray the sinner’s prayer and get all goose bumps and cry tears, and then go out and back to acting like the devil. Then presume that, because they went through all those motions, they can do whatever they want and still approach a Holy God at the end of this journey we call life! Something, you’ll have to admit, is wrong with that picture!
What I like is you said you are saved despite yourself. How can you judge yourself. Where in the bible does it say judge yourself. Thats what I cannot understand. Yes God does say his creation if we follow him. We are all his own creation. What are you saying no matter what we do we are saved. Because from your reasoning everyone is saved. Do what you want, sin you want because God saves his own creation so alls cool. I do not understand your statements. They are opposite from scripture. But could you show me First we will start with 2 questionsYou are abosolutely correct!
The differance between you and I is that I come from the view of having recieved salvation, confirmed by the Holy Spirit in understanding as now, in the present time, I am saved via the born again experience.
I am saved despite myself, but have knowledge, understanding and the wisdom to live a just life for God’s sake.
While your view is that your salvation is conditional, basically, proportional to your behavior and at the complete mercy of God to diside wheather your worthingness is accepted or not.
The motive to live just and right should because of the love we have for God rather than what law requires us to.
If the former is a true statment, then for the practicing believer, there is no law of requirement to live just and right, but rather a desire to live just and right to please God born from the dpths of our souls, as a well of spring waters that shall never run dry.
Jesus has to be born anew within us as we crucify (nail the old man to the cross) the Flesh.
By crucifying the flesh, is meant to cause the flesh and the mind to conform to the things that pertain to God.
Jesus has to grow as a babe in us to wards a spiritual man, to where we whose life reflects the attributes of God.
We can not get to that point without first becoming born anew with the spirit of Jesus and letting Jesus grow us spiritualy to that mature individual.
To know and understand what it is to have salvation garranteed is to celebrate the joy of it.
I don’t mean to imply that, not understanding what salvation really means, means not going to heaven.
It simply means that understanding of it’s full benefit is not realized.
Think about the souls who lived and died before Christ, they never really learned, and or understood what even the salvation of God was.
How about all those folks who never even heard of Jesus, let alone anything to do with whom we understand to be God?
Are they condemned to eternal non existance for no fault of their own? God forbid!
Jesus has visited all those before us and gave them the same benefit we have today.
God is fully a loving God, and His grace is far above our imaginations.
We limit God graces for lack of real understanding to those who do not believe as we do.
Therefore, by our mis-understanding, we condemn to what we refer as hell, all those who have not the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The whole theme of the bible is about God creating and saving His own creation.
peace>>>AJ
Yes, if Jesus had never suffered in our place, you and I and everybody else would have lived and died for absolutely nothing but the experience of living in the flesh.Wait God does the saving, and has nothing to do with our efforts. So again what are you saying here?
ok then hit me with this one then. explain it to me. Why does the bible say the oppositeYes, if Jesus had never suffered in our place, you and I and everybody else would have lived and died for absolutely nothing but the experience of living in the flesh.
But, God fully aware of His own works, worked out our salvation by offerring His only Son to be the saviour of the world, that the world through Him might be saved.
He, God in Jesus saves us, and nothing of effort on our part, except to learn and understaqnd what a great gift of life God has given us.
By you and I coming to the full realization of that, grants us the priviage of enjoying it while yet in the flesh.
What is it that we enjoy? Salvation granted!
Therefore, “go and sin no more” as Jesus said to the adulterous women caught in adultery.
Meaning Jesus saved her from condemnation, therfore go and live just and right with your new found life that Jesus granted with joy and celebration.
If one should again fall to the former, than cosquences follow as does with anyone who would live unjustly and in evil ways.
Peace>>>AJ
I judge myself by letting Jesus in me work out those things which offend God.What I like is you said you are saved despite yourself. How can you judge yourself. Where in the bible does it say judge yourself. Thats what I cannot understand. Yes God does say his creation if we follow him. We are all his own creation. What are you saying no matter what we do we are saved. Because from your reasoning everyone is saved. Do what you want, sin you want because God saves his own creation so alls cool. I do not understand your statements. They are opposite from scripture. But could you show me First we will start with 2 questions
You judge yourself.
All of Gods creation is saved.
lets start there.
Sounds to me like you shouldn’t do this.I judge myself by letting Jesus in me work out those things which offend God.
“It does not concern me in the least that I be judged by you or any human tribunal; I do not even pass judgment on myself; I am not conscious of anything against me, but I do not thereby stand acquitted; the one who judges me is the Lord. Therefore, do not make any judgment before the appointed time, until the Lord comes, for he will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will manifest the motives of our hearts, and then everyone will receive praise from God.” - 1 Cor. 4:3-5
What can be more intimate than eating His flesh and drinking His blood?but to help others to understand God in a more intimate way.
What God did was provide the means by which He would save His creation.And Yes God can and will work through you but why even try if God already did this for us. Looks to me according to you we can’t lose. Then why should we fear and tremble. I think you need to go back and read this, before you talk for God. Explain this scripture. Because fear and trembling sure don’t sound like we have nothing to worry about. Tell me what if a person fills like you God already did this, again why do we have to let God come into our lives. We are getting to heaven anyway right. Again Jesus did this all for us. Those are your words!>>>rinnie
A personal relationship with Him apart from all else!What can be more intimate than eating His flesh and drinking His blood?
I obviously disagree with you that a personal relationship is more intimate than actually putting His Body and Blood into one’s own body.A personal relationship with Him apart from all else!
The demostration of that is in having communion, joining in the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus to new life, as a celebration of your salvation in Jesus.
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also you are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who has raised him from the dead.>>>Colossians 2:12
“…wherein also you are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God…”
Ho can you be “risen” if you have not died yet"?
Peace>>>AJ
If Jesus gave us all this ability to not sin, why did he die to save us from our sins. Do not get me wrong I believe that we can strive to live a sinless life. But few can do this. It is only by the Power of the Holy spirit they man can be sinless. Not many have been given this power. Do you claim to have the power of the Holy Spirit? OR do you admit that you have sin the dwells in you.I judge myself by letting Jesus in me work out those things which offend God.
Jesus delivers us, or should I say the demons in us that keep us in the world of self endulgence from offerring them up to Jesus for removal.
For your second question, God created us and placed us into an environment that gave us the ability to be like Him.
By giving us the ability of intelligence to know the difference between good and evil alienaded us from God, as a consequence, death.
That alienation was by no means our fault and one by which we could do nothing about, save God Himself.
God then moved to save His creation by sending a like Adam, a second Adam (Jesus) to live and fully comply with the righteousness required by God for all mankind.
This second Adam is a new creation created for the express purpose of saving that which was lost at the begining.
For millions of people who lived and died prior to the advent of Jesus, were clueless as to who Jesus was, let alone be the savior of the world.
God made provisions for all of them as does for us today and all other future generations to come.
Now, if you happen to know about God and His love, you are held to a greater resposibility of demostrating it.
How can we love our neighbor a ourself if we do not hold the neighbor equal in the eyes of God?
Equal in the sense that God saves all mankind and makes no one to be responsible for the truth, save Jesus.
You as a Catholic practice what is right in your heart because you love God and respect His desires to the best of your abilities.
And God honors that effort and blesses you accordingly.
All I am doing here is to introduce God in a more loving way not understood my many because of the doctrines of man.
To give depth of the word not seen or understood in regular circles of believers.
All to the glory of God, not taking away from Him and glory for my understaning, but to help others to understand God in a more intimate way.
Peace>>>AJ
AJ I love your faith, and you are a awesome dude, and I swear I am not trying to pick you apart. But Paul said he could not judge himself, and prays for God’s mercy. Think about this Paul. look what paul gave up. His life for Jesus and he knew he still could not judge himself. Why would you feel that Paul who was picked by Jesus, given the power of the Holy SPirt says this, and then you would be right and Paul wrong.What God did was provide the means by which He would save His creation.
To say,“I can sin all I want and still be saved” is a clique that is the dierct response when confronted with the notion that God saves all.
The point is, not that we can sin all we want, but rather to curb our sinning desires in appreciatioin for the love of God.
God has chosen us, in this present time to be a light of His love in a evil world, to shine as a candle in a dark place.
To demostate the light of God to a dark world.
Now, campare that to non-believers and evil doers.
Because you are in the know, more is expected of you to live what you claim to be of God.
So, what is your will, to sin not? Ofcoarse that is your desire, for that desire is of God and one where God gives you strenght to overcome.
Peace>>>AJ
if you are saying we don’t actually have to do good things to get into Heaven, you are WRONG.I would like to present the view that God does the saving and has nothing to do with our own efforts.
If, our good efforts were a condition for salvation, we would first not be able to attain the perfection required by the law of Moses (Ten Commandments) and second, Jesus would have no need to offer Himself in our behalf.
Passing judgment oin myself to me simply means that I am convicted by the Holy Spirit when I am in the wrong and in need of correction.Sounds to me like you shouldn’t do this.