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JustaServant
Guest
Still doesn’t answer the question. You’re just playing with words.
HOW do YOU KNOW Mary MOST LIKELY did not know He was God?
If you do Not believe that Blessed Mary is the Mother of God, than who do you believe Jesus Christ is?
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HOW do YOU KNOW Mary MOST LIKELY did not know He was God?
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PRmerger
Guest
If she was inspired by the Holy Spirit to proclaim this, then she did know He was God.
And why else would she proclaim this exclamation except because the HS inspired her to do so?
And, clearly, the Holy Spirit inspired John the Baptist to leap in her womb at the presence of the Lord.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Exactly, and we have only focused on the Annunciation and Visitation. Should we then jump a few verse’s ahead to the Prophecy of Simeon, specifically Luke-2:34 and Luke 2:48
Here again and again we become confronted with Mary, Mother of Jesus Christ. And the Prophecy of Simeon confirms Christs normal birth through Marys womb.
34- and Simeon blessed them and said unto “Mary His[Jesus] Mother” Behold this child is set for the fall and rising again of Israel.
48-And when they saw Him[Christ], they were amazed; and His Mother said unto Him, SON.
And in verse 49 it becomes abundantly clear that Son[Jesus] whos Mother is Mary, refers to His Father, GOD here. “I must be about my Fathers[God] business.”
Here again and again we become confronted with Mary, Mother of Jesus Christ. And the Prophecy of Simeon confirms Christs normal birth through Marys womb.
34- and Simeon blessed them and said unto “Mary His[Jesus] Mother” Behold this child is set for the fall and rising again of Israel.
48-And when they saw Him[Christ], they were amazed; and His Mother said unto Him, SON.
And in verse 49 it becomes abundantly clear that Son[Jesus] whos Mother is Mary, refers to His Father, GOD here. “I must be about my Fathers[God] business.”
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Dokimas
Guest
There’s more specific words that could be used if she meant God, IMO.
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Dokimas
Guest
Are you saying every time God uses a person they always perfectly understand? If so, do you think Isaiah understood whom he prophesied about in Is 53?
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elvisman
Guest
So you honestly believe that the Holy Spirit inspired Elizabeth to refer to the child in Mary’s womb as simply an important guy or VIP - and not God?
That is preposterous, unless you believe that the Holy Spirit isn’t very bright . . .**
As for the Greek definitions you provided (which I provided first) - it’s irrelevant as I already explained to you that Mary and Elizabeth spoke ARAMAIC - not Greek.
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Dokimas
Guest
The Holy Spirit, being God, knew who Jesus was. As I just pointed out in a post, the Holy Spirit inspires people to say things and they don’t understand exactly what they are saying. Example: reading from the epistles, it seems Paul thought Jesus was going to return soon. Paul wrote about ‘end times’ stuff and didn’t understand when that would happen.
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pablope
Guest
So you are saying you know more than GOD? You are above God that you should demand more should have been stated? Then where is your faith?
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Dokimas
Guest
Please, please, please. What’s all this silliness? You know your statements, in the form of your questions, are not true.
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PRmerger
Guest
Fair enough.
So what is your point about Elizabeth then? She called Mary the “Mother of my Lord” and the Holy Spirit inspired her to say this? But she may not have really understood what she was saying?
If so, that’s fine.
But you’re still agreeing that the HS inspired Elizabeth to say this?
If so, then she was still proclaiming that Mary was the Mother of God, whether she understood it or not.
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Dokimas
Guest
Intersting point. Thank you.Fair enough.
So what is your point about Elizabeth then? She called Mary the “Mother of my Lord” and the Holy Spirit inspired her to say this? But she may not have really understood what she was saying?
If so, that’s fine.
But you’re still agreeing that the HS inspired Elizabeth to say this?
If so, then she was still proclaiming that Mary was the Mother of God, whether she understood it or not.
So when the Holy Spirit inspired the phrase ‘Lord God’ He was really saying “God God”?
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PRmerger
Guest
I think it was to differentiate between Lord man and Lord God, yes?
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pismopal
Guest
Is it possible that you are twisting yourself into a pretzel in an effort to disagree with the Catholic (and others including Luther) understanding of Mary? Somebody here said that changing the nature of Christ is heresy and that is exactly what it is.
I was sent a humorous bromide the other day which read…" There is nothing so terrible as being in the middle of an argument with someone and suddenly realizing that you are wrong."
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elvisman
Guest
You simply refuse to address the Aramaic. * Why is that?*
Is it because you don’t have a smug comeback for something that you haven’t done you homework on?
Elizabeth said, “MarYa” when referring to the child in Mary’s womb. “MarYa” is Aramaic for “my God/Yahweh”.
Linguistic scholars agree more than disagree that Mary, Jesus, the apostles and most Jews in 1st century Palestine spoke Aramaic.
Address that.**
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Well, its all good. Learning can be fustrating. And its important when individuals of other faiths arrive here they are not ganged up on also. Theres really a level of stewardship that should always apply here, I know thats easier said than done, but its real.
Dok will have much to think about with Elvis and PR for sure.
Dok will have much to think about with Elvis and PR for sure.
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JustaServant
Guest
This answer is the foundation of the problem with sola scriptura. You simply cannot get beyond the idea that “if its not in Bible…” You can’t see you are using the Bible in a way that it was NEVER meant to be used. And worse you are forcing YOUR opinion on the Word of God simply because you disagree with 2000 years of Church teaching.
What makes your opinion better than God’s? Why should we take your word over 2000 years of Church teaching?
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rev_kevin
Guest
Did they even know about the “Trinity?” Did they even know God, Jesus and the HS are the same?Fair enough.
So what is your point about Elizabeth then? She called Mary the “Mother of my Lord” and the Holy Spirit inspired her to say this? But she may not have really understood what she was saying?
If so, that’s fine.
But you’re still agreeing that the HS inspired Elizabeth to say this?
If so, then she was still proclaiming that Mary was the Mother of God, whether she understood it or not.
The title LORD has various meanings. It could mean a Prince or a Feudal Superior. Its connected with the Peerage of the UK. It may also be usts in conjunction with other denoted Superiou holder such as “Lord Mayor” or “Lord Chief Justice.”
LORD in religious context where “The Lord” refers to God in Judaism or to Lord Buddha in Buddhaism or to God, Jesus and the HS in Christianity.
But apparently the HS told Elizabeth the Mary’s child was the Messiah because Elizabeth called her young relative “the Mother of my Lord” as she greeted her.
Did Elizabeth know Mary was the Mother of God? I highly doubt it. I believe Elizabeth knew Mary’s baby was special, a prince, the son of God but God himself. I doubt it.
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PRmerger
Guest
Fair enough. That is compatible with Catholic teaching.
The question is, though, do you think the Holy Spirit inspired her to say that Mary was carrying the Mother of her Lord?
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PRmerger
Guest
When Paul proclaims that Jesus is Lord, what do you think Paul was expressing?
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pablope
Guest
Sorry dok…did not mean to be silly or attact you, it is just when you stated the following:
Then you are questioning the very Bible itself, are you not? Are you not putting your own qualifications to the Bible over God’s, on what it should be versus what it is to the present? Then your trust, and your faith, are you not then questioning these and God’s wisdom?
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