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Rykell
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Yeh, beat it into em, Bat Teddy! (True to your user name) Only way to go! That’s what Christ would say. 
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Mjae
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Great posts! 
I would have no problem making the TLM more available in places where there is sufficient demand, and in parishes where that demand could be reasonably accommodated. I would certainly take into consideration the extra workload on priests that this would involve.
I would not have it replace the NO, though.
I remember going to mass before VII.
I also remember that a LOT of people ]slept through most of it!
I would have no problem making the TLM more available in places where there is sufficient demand, and in parishes where that demand could be reasonably accommodated. I would certainly take into consideration the extra workload on priests that this would involve.
I would not have it replace the NO, though.
I remember going to mass before VII.
I also remember that a LOT of people ]slept through most of it!
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batteddy
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Id hope most bishops can afford a plane ticket. Obviously secret Chinese bishops and stuff wouldnt have to.
Well, about half of those are auxilliary bishops, or retired bishops, or people working in the curia.
There are roughly 569 Roman Catholic archdioceses and 2014 diocese.
Many of the bishops in the third world are likely orthodox and open to tradition. At least Africa and Asia. And some in Europe and America are too. I like Schonborn, Burke, Bruskewitz. I’m sure as I sorted through, conducted my investigations and interviews, there would be many I’d find tolerable and likely to obey. Even if that means getting a few spineless yes-men who just submit to whatever the current party line is.
The SSPX has about 500 priests. If their bishops would admit they were wrong, submit, and obey (and pride is the only reason they wouldn’t, seeing as I would otherwise totally implement their agenda)…they may find their Society well rewarded for keeping the traditions of the faith.
For the time being, whole ecclesiastical provinces could be combined under the leadership of one man until the whole thing is sorted out.
Massive purging.
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gorman64
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Likely orthodox??? Open to tradition???
What are they doing right now? I think this is wishful thinking at best.
What is the “current party line” and are you suggesting that it is wrong?
There would be no FSSP if it weren’t for the “disobedience” of the SSPX and other traditional groups. So the one who keep the Faith are outside??? Outside of what?
They are already under one man…JPII and now BXVI. Right?
The fact is that there is no enforcement of doctrine today…and there is no indication that anyone who you think possesses authority thinks any “massive purging” is even necessary.
Gorman
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batteddy
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The question is if I were elected Pope. If elected Pope, I would enforce doctrine and would believe a massive purging to be necessary.
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bear06
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Prove it, omniscient one.
I’m pretty sure you have no way of knowing whether or not if the SSPX did not exist that the FSSP would not have come into being just as I have no way of knowing whether they would have.
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gorman64
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But you’re not the Pope, batteddy…we have a Pope…don’t we?
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batteddy
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The current party line is thoroughly Novus Ordo, made up thorougly of neocon Catholics, thorougly “John Paul” Catholics, commited to ecumenism and friendship with Jews and pagans and who can’t seem to just let Vatican II slip into obscurity. Sure, it didn’t teach heresy. But beyond that, not all councils have to be monumental. When was the last time you heard of Vienne? Maybe it’s time to admit V-II was a flop and move on. But of course the current leadership wants to save face. They cant admit anything bad about their pet project…so they will always at least nominally pledge allegiance to carrying out the agenda of the council. But any new Pope is free to direct us totally away from that and into the direction of a new agenda. The “call” of the council is not Of The Faith, it can be ignored entirely by any subsequent Pope. As long as one admits that no heresy was taught, the authority of the Church is not questioned by letting V-II die a quiet death. But some people act as if, “but if we go back before Vatican II, then that’s like saying the Church made a mistake…we’re in too deep, now that it’s happened, we must be supposed to follow through.” But that’s an odd, reluctant attitude. There’s no need to particularly defend it beyond saying that it didnt teach heresy. But it’s particular human tone can be allowed to slip into obscurity as a failed experiment.
The neoCatholics are in themselves completely orthodox, so I can’t say anything against them, but only minimally orthodox. That is to say, they maintain everything essential to the Faith, but ONLY what is essential. They don’t go beyond what the rubrics allow…but at the same time they go to the lowest common denominator, accepting everything the rubrics maximully allow (altar girls, EMHC’s etc).
All the rest of the rich baggage of tradition has been thrown off. And that’s what happens when you dont bind people. Require things of people, and they will rise to the occasion. Don’t require things of people, merely “encourage” them…and most people will just do the bare minimum.
Require 3 altar cloths and it’s no big deal, they’ll do it, it’s easy enough. But don’t require it, merely encourage it, and most won’t bother even though it’s not a huge task. Require them to pray Terce, Sext, and None and they will somehow find the time. Require only one, and no one is going to bother to say all three.
This idea that “we know better know” is the definition of the Modernist heresy. We should be judging the present in the light of the past…not apologizing for the past in the light of the present zeitgeists.
Sure. But the question was a hypothetical. What would I do? And I gave my honest answer.
My answer is not necessarily what is best for the Church. It’s just what I honestly know would be my first impulse. But as you said, I’m not Pope, and maybe there’s a reason for that…
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gorman64
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Prove it to you Bear, or to a person who hasn’t already decided I’m wrong?Prove it, omniscient one.
And I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t agree with a word I wrote.
Gorman
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bear06
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Feel free to take you pick. I’ll give you a bonus if you can’t prove it to me!Prove it to you Bear, or to a person who hasn’t already decided I’m wrong?
And I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t agree with a word I wrote.
Gorman
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Jean_Anthony
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Please stay on topic and limit the personal comments, everyone. Thank you.
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gorman64
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Ok, Bear, I’ll take me pick…and ask you what then were the historical events that lead to the creation of FSSP?Feel free to take you pick. I’ll give you a bonus if you can’t prove it to me!
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Jean_Anthony
Guest
This thread is closed. Thank you all who participated.
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