Ignorance and evolution

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Then there is Newton’s theory of universal gravity:
Every point mass attracts every other point mass by a force pointing along the line intersecting both points. The force is proportional to the product of the two masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the point masses
300 years later that law still works.
Well, for most things. But Newton turned out to be wrong. General relativity corrects the errors in Newton’s theory. We can still use Newtonian physics for many things, just as we can use Darwin’s original theory for many things. But subsequent evidence has shown both to be in need of revision.
With evolution, every year brings a radical revision of the theory
Actually, Darwin’s five main points remain entirely true. But there have been several major revisions. Perhaps one every fifty years.
and in some cases, the direct opposite of was previously claimed as “true” is given as a “new fact”.
Hey, that sounds interesting. Show us one of those.
 
Your “hearts and minds” rhetoric is tiresome. God comes before “science,” an invention of man. Continuous repetition does not make a thing true.

As Pope Benedict stated in his Homily at his inaugural Mass: “We are not some meaningless, casual product of evolution…”

This statement speaks to the heart of the matter.

God bless,
Ed
 
[Barbarian (Pat) message 301]
Barbarian in your message 301 you don’t tell us who you are speaking to and you basically ask the same questions and cover the same material that Alec did in his message 300. I’d prefer hearing ReggieM. respond to Alec because he addresses his questions to ReggieM which is a matter of being courteous. Also, it makes it easier for viewers to follow. 🙂 Many non-members are having difficulting following your discourse. They don’t have a way of easily reviewing the material of the individual whom you are responding to, thinking that there might be absence of important information.🙂
[Please review Alec’s (hecd2) message 300
[/quote]
 
Your “hearts and minds” rhetoric is tiresome. God comes before “science,” an invention of man. Continuous repetition does not make a thing true.

As Pope Benedict stated in his Homily at his inaugural Mass: “We are not some meaningless, casual product of evolution…”

This statement speaks to the heart of the matter.

God bless,
Ed
Are sure your not taking this particulor statement out of context from everything else he has written or ever said?
 
Your “hearts and minds” rhetoric is tiresome. God comes before “science,” an invention of man. Continuous repetition does not make a thing true.
I don’t know who you are speaking to, but in my estimation science and reason rate infinitely higher than magical thinking. I agree that continuous repetition since 100AD does not make a thing true. We should reject wishful thinking. We should rely on evidence.

Alec
evolutionpages,com
 
I’d prefer hearing ReggieM. respond to Alec because he addresses his questions to ReggieM which is a matter of being courteous.
Reggie seems to be able to follow it, and of course, it’s his choice who and what he’d like to reply to.

On the other hand, if someone is more interested in the “who” than the argument itself, I suppose they could go check for themselves.
 
I guess Barbarian (Pat) it doesn’t concern you who may be reading what you deposit. 🙂 I’ve never run across a member who didn’t speak directly to a person until you came along. It would be easy to do since 99 persent of the membes do do it. Do you have a reason why you don’t want to? 🙂
 
I’d prefer hearing ReggieM. respond to Alec because he addresses his questions to ReggieM which is a matter of being courteous. .
Thanks you wildleaf – I agree that it’s not courteous to continually barge-in and answer questions that were not addressed to that person.
Many non-members are having difficulting following your discourse.
Agreed. There are too many tiny responses strung over a long post of snippets of quoted material. I can’t read those myself.
 
I agree that it’s not courteous to continually barge-in and answer questions that were not addressed to that person.
Really? This is a discussion list that is open to everyone.

So answer this that was addressed specifically to you:

What was claimed as a significant scientific *fact *that has been “refuted” a decade ago? (You will have to find a respectable reference - not a journalistic one, but a reference in a respectable scientific paper, to something that was claimed as a significant *fact *in 1998, that is now refuted - ie utterly denied). If you cannot do that and you have any integrity you will retract.

Alec
evolutionpages.com
 
When I get an additional 15 minutes I’ll give you more:

“Chance alone is at the source of all novelty, all creation in the biosphere,…”
“Pure chance, only chance, absolute but blind liberty
is at the root of the prodigious edifice that is evolution…”
  • The Nobel Prize-winning molecular biologist Jacques Monod Monod, “Chance and Necessity” (1970)
It is grindingly, creakingly, obvious that, if Darwinism were really a theory of chance, it couldn’t work. [Dawkins 1996: 67]

“**The extreme rarity of transitional forms **in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology … The history of most fossil species includes two features inconsistent with gradualism: 1. Statis. Most species exhibit no directional change during their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much the same as when they disappear… 2. Sudden Appearance. In any local area, a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and ‘fully formed’. 6 The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils. " Gould, “Evolution’s Erratic Pace,” Natural History, Vol. 5, 1977”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

“While Gould is celebrated among non-scientists for the color and energy of his prose and his massive interdisciplinary knowledge, his critics have concerns that the **theory has gained undeserved credence **among non-scientists because of Gould’s rhetorical skills.”

Ancient Apelike Fossil Not Human Ancestor, Study Finds
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/12/061208-little-foot.html

A pre-human fossil found in a South African cave may be more than a million years younger than was previously thought, a new study has discovered.
If the new findings are right, the fossil is not a direct human ancestor, as had been believed, but instead belongs to a side branch of the evolutionary tree that eventually led to modern apes and humans.

Theory on evolution of essential genes is overturned by new finding
bath.ac.uk/pr/releases/essentialgenes.htm

This finding, that an essential gene has a relatively recent origin, overturns the conventional notion that genes with vital functions must have been created a long time ago, but raises important questions about why and how this particular gene evolved.

“This discovery really changes our concept of how new gene function can evolve, which is a major issue for evolutionary biology,” said Dr Tim Karr from the University of Bath, who made the discovery with colleagues in the Centre de Genetique Moleculaire et Cellulaire in France and the University of Chicago.

“It is remarkable to think that through a range of random, naturally-occurring genetic changes over a few million years, a new essential gene has evolved. Obviously other species of fruit fly don’t need this gene but they may have other genes that serve a similar function. At first the gene may have conveyed some as yet unknown benefit that eventually became essential during the course of evolution. It could even have been involved in the early processes leading to speciation of this group of fruit flies,” said Dr Karr.

“Uprooting the Tree of Life”
science-frontiers.com/sf128/sf128p05.htm

After first noting that 10 years ago it was generally agreed that all organisms evolved from a single ancestral cell that existed about 3.5 billion years ago, there comes the assertion that the Tree of Life:
“is far more complicated than was believed and may not have had a single root at all.”
 
What was claimed as a significant scientific fact that has been “refuted” a decade ago?
The claim that evolution itself is a “fact” was refuted many times.

That’s the point. The rest of what you’re after is rhetorical games.

You’ll claim that none of what was refuted in evolutionary theory was ever considered a “fact”.

That’s pretty convenient. It’s a lot like evolutionary “predictions”. The coin will come up heads or tails.

Since just about every aspect of evolution has been refuted and reformulated at some point – we’ll have to conclude that none of it was ever fact based.

Otherwise, you’re here claiming that evolutionary theory has not seen any significant changes in what it teaches.

For my purposes, it’s enough to know that high school textbooks have, for the past several decades, presented evolution as “a fact” and have forced students to learn it as such.

I already pointed out Ken Miller’s embarrasing episode where he had to remove erroneous content from the textbook he co-authored.

Again, I appreciate the attempt to dodge this issue by hiding behind academia, where lies are dressed in technical language.

But as I said, either evolutionary theory has not undergone significant changes and refutations of “widely held beliefs” (e.g. “facts”) or it has never taught any facts at all.

This is all blatantly obvious and it’s a very good reason why most of what evolutionary scientists say cannot be trusted as being true. The fact that evolutionists themselves argue with each other about the fundamental concepts of the theory is yet another obvious proof of that.
 
Reggie: More evolutionary “fact” overturned in the vast time period of 30 years.

Barbarian: Yep. Evolutionary theory, like all scientific theories, is changed to reflect the evidence.

Alec: Nope.
 
I don’t know who you are speaking to, but in my estimation science and reason rate infinitely higher than magical thinking. I agree that continuous repetition since 100AD does not make a thing true. We should reject wishful thinking. We should rely on evidence.

Alec
evolutionpages,com
So Man invents himself? Man is the measure of all things? We are like a vapor that exists for a while.

I have read of too much science being based on wishful thinking, such as the writings of Jules Verne.

I hope you find God.

God bless,
Ed
 
If you cannot do that and you have any integrity you will retract.
If you have any integrity you will admit that you loaded the question in your favor and added some words that I didn’t offer:
will have to find **a respectable reference **
How about a high school textbook? Not “respectable” enough? Well it was certainly good enough to use to indoctrinate generations of students.

to something that was claimed as **a significant fact **in 1998, that is now refuted - ie utterly denied

Hey, I’ll take your part in the discussion now since you skewed the questions to your advantage.

“Nope. Not a *significant *fact.”

“Nope. Not utterly denied. Some scientists still hold that.”

That’s a pretty good attempt at manipulating the discussion! 😉
 
It is proposed that physical evidence is the “best way” to understand all things.

Atheism is seductive for many people, agreed.

For myself, it’s an embrace of nothingness (since everything is transient anyway) and does not provide an answer to the most important questions.
 
It is proposed that physical evidence is the “best way” to understand all things.
I’m a scientist, and I don’t agree with you on that. Evidence is the best way to understand the physical universe. But not everything.
Atheism is seductive for many people, agreed.
I could never see that one. Athiests are a rather small minority.
 
I guess Barbarian it doesn’t concern you who may be reading what you deposit.
It’s a message board. If I cared to limit it, I sure wouldn’t post it here.
I’ve never run across a member who didn’t speak directly to a person until you came along.
I’m speaking to you now.
It would be easy to do since 99 persent of the membes do do it. Do you have a reason why you don’t want to?
Never seemed like a problem to me.
 
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