Ilegalizing Aboriton not the answer

[edwest2]

To be clear:

"Tens of thousands of people from across the United States are expected to gather in the nation’s capital Jan. 23 for this year’s March for Life in Washington with the theme: “Unite on the life principles to overturn Roe v. Wade and with love protect mothers and preborn children — no exception, no compromise.”

Peace,
Ed

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Who from CAF is going? I want to go but haven’t got hotel reservations yet.

It’s the 40th anniversary of Roe v. Wade.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

So my mom and I have had a talk about how abortion is bad, but she argues that making abortion illegal won’t solve anything. She says that there was a time when she lived in Mexico that abortions were completely illegal. She said that the only thing that did was to make women who wanted to get an abortion to go to an underground clinic " the black market". This is much worse as not only is the child getting killed, but also the mother’s life is endangered.

I am completely against abortion, but I don’t think that illegalizing it would be the best solution if that means people will still get it and even endanger them our lives by going to an unorthodox place.

What are your views?

I think that the image of a young scared pregnant teen suffering the effects of a brutal back-alley abortion is horrific. Also horrific is the scourge of unchecked abortion for the past 40 years in the United States of America. Millions upon millions of unborn babies killed in their mothers’ wombs. The former does not call for the latter. The former calls for justice, compassion and love, not the ruination of more innocents.

Peace,
Robert

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I think that the image of a young scared pregnant teen suffering the effects of a brutal back-alley abortion is horrific. Also horrific is the scourge of unchecked abortion for the past 40 years in the United States of America. Millions upon millions of unborn babies killed in their mothers’ wombs. The former does not call for the latter. The former calls for justice, compassion and love, not the ruination of more innocents.

Peace,
Robert

The image of a pregnant woman going into Planned Parenthood is just as horrific. I’ve watched an ambulance come up with no lights on, go to the back door and remove a woman who had problems during the abortion. The people who run our coalition have seen this many, many times.

Abortion always ends in the death of a child, and the heartbreak of the mother and not infrequently, health consequences as well.

 

[livingwordunity]

So my mom and I have had a talk about how abortion is bad, but she argues that making abortion illegal won’t solve anything. She says that there was a time when she lived in Mexico that abortions were completely illegal. She said that the only thing that did was to make women who wanted to get an abortion to go to an underground clinic " the black market". This is much worse as not only is the child getting killed, but also the mother’s life is endangered.

I am completely against abortion, but I don’t think that illegalizing it would be the best solution if that means people will still get it and even endanger them our lives by going to an unorthodox place.

What are your views?

“do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” - Matt. 10:28

“For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” - Matt. 16:25

 

[_Abyssinia]

catholicnewsagency.com/resources/abortion/defending-life/if-abortion-is-made-illegal-women-will-die-in-back-alleys

Read that article

What will prevent the most lives being killed? Making abortion illegal

 

[Andre1000]

So my mom and I have had a talk about how abortion is bad, but she argues that making abortion illegal won’t solve anything. She says that there was a time when she lived in Mexico that abortions were completely illegal. She said that the only thing that did was to make women who wanted to get an abortion to go to an underground clinic " the black market". This is much worse as not only is the child getting killed, but also the mother’s life is endangered.

I am completely against abortion, but I don’t think that illegalizing it would be the best solution if that means people will still get it and even endanger them our lives by going to an unorthodox place.

What are your views?

The argumentation is unsound, this can be proven by replacing abortion with murder, like this:
So my mom and I have had a talk about how abortion is bad, but she argues that making murder illegal won’t solve anything. She says that there was a time when she lived in Mexico that murders were completely illegal. She said that the only thing that did was to make women who wanted to do murder to do it illegal. This is much worse as not only is the victim getting killed, but also the murders is endangered.

 

[JamesATyler]

I know that it is right to place the child’s life before the mother’s life when the mother seeks to abort the child. I vote to make it illegal.

 

[lagoonbreeze]

That was the arguement in favor of abortion here in the US back in the early 70’s. Legal abortion was supposed to save our 16 year old daughters from going to back alley, coathanger waving, unqualified, “butchers” to get an abortion. (Even though birth control was available). In the years since, we have gone from an abortion being ok only during the first trimester to sucking out babys brains at nine months and letting healthy, born alive babies die alone in broom closets, because they aren’t perfect and the parents don’t want them. We have also gone from a doctor volunteering to perform an abortion to the United States government forcing doctors against their will and religious beliefs to perform them on demand. Abortion is evil, there is no getting around that. Once evil is let in and takes hold, it is very, very difficult to get rid of it. There are millions and millions of Americans who were never born, because of abortion and millions more than that worldwide.

Abuse and neglect of mentally and physically challenged people has been going on in this country since before Roe v Wade. There has not been a sudden acceleration of negative, selfish behaviors.

The abortion rate in the United States has dropped per 1,000 women between the ages of 15 and 44 from 26.3 in 1991 to 19.6 in 2008. Legality of the procedure has increased safety for these women. Yes, it’s a lot of abortions, but the number is going down. Isn’t that what you are interested in, seeing the numbers diminish? A population as large as that of the United States does not ensure a rapid drop in these numbers, but I think the rate drop could be due to more education about reproduction for women in this age group.

statistics: Guttmacher

 

[Arturo_Ortiz]

Thanks for everyone’s answers and suggestions.

I too vote for the illegalization of abortion, as it is murder. Murder is something that should be outlawed and making it legal does no help.

I was trying to help my mom understand that legalizing does no helpl, but harm. It might lower maternal deaths as some have mentioned, but not the deaths of the unborn.

 

[sw85]

So my mom and I have had a talk about how abortion is bad, but she argues that making abortion illegal won’t solve anything. She says that there was a time when she lived in Mexico that abortions were completely illegal. She said that the only thing that did was to make women who wanted to get an abortion to go to an underground clinic " the black market". This is much worse as not only is the child getting killed, but also the mother’s life is endangered.

I am completely against abortion, but I don’t think that illegalizing it would be the best solution if that means people will still get it and even endanger them our lives by going to an unorthodox place.

What are your views?

The number of abortions prior to Roe v. Wade was a fraction what it is today, so it’s a safe bet any decrease in the number of illegal abortion-related deaths caused by Roe v. Wade was swamped by an orders-of-magnitude increase in the rate of abortion.

At any rate, I have no problem with this. I support making it very, very difficult and, yes, even dangerous for criminals to commit their crimes.

 

[MarcoPolo]

So my mom and I have had a talk about how abortion is bad, but she argues that making abortion illegal won’t solve anything. She says that there was a time when she lived in Mexico that abortions were completely illegal. She said that the only thing that did was to make women who wanted to get an abortion to go to an underground clinic " the black market". This is much worse as not only is the child getting killed, but also the mother’s life is endangered.

I am completely against abortion, but I don’t think that illegalizing it would be the best solution if that means people will still get it and even endanger them our lives by going to an unorthodox place.

What are your views?

As Mother Teresa once said, paraphrasing, God requires us to be faithful, not to “succeed.” Think of it like this, do you compromise truths in order to defeat a bad politician? No. You stay faithful and on that you will be judged. If abortion is murder, it should be illegal. The cause to make it illegal is not advancing back alley abortions - sin is advancing back alley abortions. You can’t say, “If it doesn’t ‘fix the problem 100%’ then it’s not the right solution.” The goal, the solution, is to do the right thing. That’s what we are called to do. And regarding abortion, we must always say, “No.”

 

[sw85]

As Mother Teresa once said, paraphrasing, God requires us to be faithful, not to “succeed.”

This is good. From the philosopher Juan Donoso Cortes:

*To which of these two civilizations is temporal victory promised? I answer this question with no hesitation, with no heaviness of heart, that temporal victory will go inevitably to the philosophic [modernist] civilization. Has man desired to be free? He will be. Does he abhor bonds? They will fall to pieces at his feet. There was a day when, in order to experience liberty, man decided to kill God. Did he not do it? Did he not place Him on a cross between two thieves? Did the angels, perchance, come down from heaven to defend the Just One suffering agony on earth? Well, why would they descend now, when it is not a matter of the crucifixion of God, but of the crucifixion of man by man?…As for myself, I hold it proven and evident that evil will always triumph over good here below, and the triumph over evil is something reserved for God, if it can be said, personally…

It should not be said that if defeat is certain, the struggle is useless. In the first place, the struggle might delay the catastrophe; in the second place, the struggle is a duty, and not simply for those who consider themselves Catholics. We should give thanks to God for having granted us the struggle, and not ask, in addition to the grace of combat, the grace of triumph, for in His infinite goodness He reserves for those who fight well in His cause a reward greater than victory.*

 

[fix]

So my mom and I have had a talk about how abortion is bad, but she argues that making abortion illegal won’t solve anything. She says that there was a time when she lived in Mexico that abortions were completely illegal. She said that the only thing that did was to make women who wanted to get an abortion to go to an underground clinic " the black market". This is much worse as not only is the child getting killed, but also the mother’s life is endangered.

I am completely against abortion, but I don’t think that illegalizing it would be the best solution if that means people will still get it and even endanger them our lives by going to an unorthodox place.

What are your views?

Not outlawing murder is contrary to logic, justice, and Catholic teaching.

 

[MarcoPolo]

This is good. From the philosopher Juan Donoso Cortes:

*To which of these two civilizations is temporal victory promised? I answer this question with no hesitation, with no heaviness of heart, that temporal victory will go inevitably to the philosophic [modernist] civilization. Has man desired to be free? He will be. Does he abhor bonds? They will fall to pieces at his feet. There was a day when, in order to experience liberty, man decided to kill God. Did he not do it? Did he not place Him on a cross between two thieves? Did the angels, perchance, come down from heaven to defend the Just One suffering agony on earth? Well, why would they descend now, when it is not a matter of the crucifixion of God, but of the crucifixion of man by man?…As for myself, I hold it proven and evident that evil will always triumph over good here below, and the triumph over evil is something reserved for God, if it can be said, personally…

It should not be said that if defeat is certain, the struggle is useless. In the first place, the struggle might delay the catastrophe; in the second place, the struggle is a duty, and not simply for those who consider themselves Catholics. We should give thanks to God for having granted us the struggle, and not ask, in addition to the grace of combat, the grace of triumph, for in His infinite goodness He reserves for those who fight well in His cause a reward greater than victory.*

I like his mention of the “temporal” here. I wanted to say something about how this is but a temporary pilgrimage and we cannot always measure “success” by activity here, but couldn’t come up with quick enough words.

 

[livingwordunity]

As Mother Teresa once said, paraphrasing, God requires us to be faithful, not to “succeed.” Think of it like this, do you compromise truths in order to defeat a bad politician? No. You stay faithful and on that you will be judged. If abortion is murder, it should be illegal. The cause to make it illegal is not advancing back alley abortions - sin is advancing back alley abortions. You can’t say, “If it doesn’t ‘fix the problem 100%’ then it’s not the right solution.” The goal, the solution, is to do the right thing. That’s what we are called to do. And regarding abortion, we must always say, “No.”

 

[Bella92]

What are your views?

Can you think of any human behaviour that has stopped because it’s illegal? I can’t. We still murder, steal, drink and drive, do drugs, committ insurance and banking fraud, drive without tax and insurance, fail to comply with statutory regulations. All illlegal and all routinely done. Making abortion illegal would serve no purpose. Women who want abortions, will still get abortions.

 

[ManicFaze]

Your Mom is right about how awful it was for women back in the days of back alley abortions.
I never understood how the Church can be anti-birth control in this modern time. I might be able to hang with the Church being pro-life if they did not look down on use of birth control.
Both my Mom & Dad came from large Catholic Families and lived in poverty because of it, in today’s economic climate it’s just not plausible to have 7 or 8 kids and think you are going to be able to provided college educations for all your kids. Everyone suffers in that situation is that fair to the children brought into this world to live not having a home or food to eat because the church feels birth control is just as bad as abortion.
I am pro-choice and think it’s the women’s right to decide not some man who sit’s high in his ivory tower of disapproval, it’s G-ds place to judge how I have lived my life and no one else’s.
Its fine if you are pro-life that’s your decision but don’t let that belief cause women to suffer and die in some filthy room when there is no need for it.

 

[Arturo_Ortiz]

Can you think of any human behaviour that has stopped because it’s illegal? I can’t. We still murder, steal, drink and drive, do drugs, committ insurance and banking fraud, drive without tax and insurance, fail to comply with statutory regulations. All illlegal and all routinely done. Making abortion illegal would serve no purpose. Women who want abortions, will still get abortions.

Like others have mentioned these things will always be done, including abortion, because people will always try to find a way and do them. Yet we choose to outlaw abortion because atleats it lowers it and limits it. At the same time outlawing it makes society know its wrong.

 

[Arturo_Ortiz]

Your Mom is right about how awful it was for women back in the days of back alley abortions.
I never understood how the Church can be anti-birth control in this modern time. I might be able to hang with the Church being pro-life if they did not look down on use of birth control.
Both my Mom & Dad came from large Catholic Families and lived in poverty because of it, in today’s economic climate it’s just not plausible to have 7 or 8 kids and think you are going to be able to provided college educations for all your kids. Everyone suffers in that situation is that fair to the children brought into this world to live not having a home or food to eat because the church feels birth control is just as bad as abortion.
I am pro-choice and think it’s the women’s right to decide not some man who sit’s high in his ivory tower of disapproval, it’s G-ds place to judge how I have lived my life and no one else’s.
Its fine if you are pro-life that’s your decision but don’t let that belief cause women to suffer and die in some filthy room when there is no need for it.

I too had a hard time understanding the church’s stand on birth control, but it helped reading Humanae Vitae.

You are right, many of us don’t have the ability to raise six or seven children. For that reason is that the Church has given us things like NFP. The church understands that we can’t take care of all these kids, so for that it has called for responsible parents to decide how many kids they can rise, and do so without aborting, or even birth control, but rather by the use of tools like NFP