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Jeffrey
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Fremont
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Thanks for your post.
It shows how dumb I am because I do not have any idea what you are talking about.
I suppose it concerns immigration some how or otherwise you would not have posted it.
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TimOliv
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I have to say that I am failing to see how Fremont is making statements to that effect. Sorry. Care to elaborate?
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Ituyu
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**
FREMONT, these are not my interpretations or my words:
**
As Our Predecessor of immortal memory, Leo XIII, has said: "The civil power must not serve the advantage of any one individual, or of some few persons, inasmuch as it was established for the common good of all*."*40] Considerations of justice and equity, however, can at times demand that those involved in civil government give more attention to the less fortunate members of the community, since they are less able to defend their rights and to assert their legitimate claims.[41]
Predecessor Pius XII teaches: “That perpetual privilege proper to man, by which every individual has a claim to the protection of his rights, and by which there is assigned to each a definite and particular sphere of rights, immune from all arbitrary attacks, is the logical consequence of the order of justice willed by God.”[24]
28. The natural rights with which We have been dealing are, however, inseparably connected, in the very person who is their subject, with just as many respective duties; and rights as well as duties find their source, their sustenance and their inviolability in the natural law which grants or enjoins them.
60. It is agreed that in our time the common good is chiefly guaranteed when personal rights and duties are maintained. The chief concern of civil authorities must therefore be to ensure that these rights are acknowledged, respected, coordinated with other rights, defended and promoted, so that in this way each one may more easily carry out his duties*. For "to safeguard the inviolable rights of the human person, and to facilitate the fulfillment of his duties, should be the chief duty of every public authority**."*45]
61. This means that, if any government does not acknowledge the rights of man or violates them, it not only fails in its duty, but its orders completely lack juridical force*.*46]
- One of the fundamental duties of civil authorities, therefore, is to coordinate social relations in such fashion that the exercise of one man’s rights does not threaten others in the exercise of their own rights nor hinder them in the fulfillment of their duties. Finally*, the rights of all should be effectively safeguarded and, if they have been violated, completely restored*.47]
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Ituyu
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- Now among the rights of a human person there must be included that by which a man may enter a political community where he hopes he can more fittingly provide a future for himself and his dependents. Wherefore, as far as the common good rightly understood permits, it is the duty of that State to accept such immigrants and to help to integrate them into itself as new members**.**
Consider the following:
l. Our immigration laws and policies are based on race and ethnicity.
- Our policies arbitrarily set quotas, for LEGAL immigration, below the natural increase in demand created by NAFTA.
- Laws subsequent to IRCA of 1986 place extreme restrictions on immigration legal and “illegal” immigration.
- You want to encourage the “illegal” to leave even when they have otherwise been law abiding and productive members of our communities.
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Ituyu
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Fremont,
These Inviolable Rights are based in Natural Law as quoted from the very same document that you don’t “challenge” but, appear to insist, do not apply under our Immigration Laws.
ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/I23PACEM.HTM
These Inviolable Rights are based in Natural Law as quoted from the very same document that you don’t “challenge” but, appear to insist, do not apply under our Immigration Laws.
ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/I23PACEM.HTM
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Texas_Roofer
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It has to do with the reconciling of post 97 & 130 with the teaching of the Catholic Church. Have you heard of the “What so ever you do for the least of my…”
or catechism 1930, 1903, 1951 or hundreds of homilies, teachings, passages of scripture, etc on the subject of how Christians are to treat each other.
Here is an idea, take those post to your priest and see if he will use the ideas of no inviolable rights or the sending people with no gun or canteen into a desert war zone, in his homily. May be he will thank you for your insight but maybe not.
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Fremont
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Our immigration laws are base on diversity of race, ethnicity and national origin. This is not a violation of any rights of anyone.
You made a large number of references and all sound good to me.
Those postings can be interpreted in a variety of ways and none of them seem to give anyone the right to immigrate to the US, or anywhere else, illegally. None of those postings teach that the US rules for entry that requires identification (typically a passport) and permission (typically a visa) violate any human rights in any way.
Immigrate, yes, but within the laws, rules and regulations.
There are a variety of ways for someone desiring to immigrate to the US to do this legally and within the laws, rules and regulations.
One example is that the person desiring to immigrate can obtain a tourist visa. He or she can then visit whatever city or town they wish. They can discuss employment with any company they wish.
If the services to be provided by the potential immigrant are as critical to the US economy as you keep insisting and if those services are not available to the employer from the local worker pool, upon agreement to hire the potential immigrant the employer can initiate a sponsorship of the potential immigrant.
The potential immigrant can then return to his or her point of origin and apply for legal immigration to the US with the sponsorship of the potential employer based on the need for those critical services not otherwise available to the employer.
This will give a much higher priority to the application for immigration and accelerate the process.
No one’s rights have been violated, no teachings of the Church have been breached and the laws, rules and regulations have been honored.
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Texas_Roofer
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Spin, spin, spin, hide, hide, hide
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Fremont
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Fortunately most posters in this forum try to make a positive contribution, no matter what position they take on the illegal immigration issues.
Others just sit on the sidelines and take cheap shots at posters. Most of these are rather obscure and silly.
Just think how nice it would be if the kibitzers would actually make a positive contribution – at least once in a while.
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TimOliv
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Hi, welcome to an adult conversation. If you dispute something our fair Fremont has said, can you at least dignify it with an answer rather than a witty retort?
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Fremont
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Thanks again Tim for your post. You are right on the mark.
I will repost what I said previously -
Fortunately most posters in this forum try to make a positive contribution, no matter what position they take on the illegal immigration issues.
Others just sit on the sidelines and take cheap shots at posters. Most of these are rather obscure and silly.
Just think how nice it would be if the kibitzers would actually make a positive contribution – at least once in a while.
I guess we just need to be tolerant of all types.
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Texas_Roofer
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Have you ever counted the pronouns? Or is this just another attempt to hide post 97 & 130?
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wabrams
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Yes, that’s exactly what you and Ituyu do on the Immigration threads.
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Jeffrey
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And if you don’t agree with’em you get called racist. Blah.
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Fremont
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It seems we may have some common ground after all.
Your posts here clearly show that the actions of one group cannot threaten or damage the rights of any other group. Further that the civil government should pay more attention to protection of the less fortunate members of the community who are less able to defend themselves.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Illegal immigrants cause harm to and are a threat to the well being of the more vulnerable members of our community. Illegal immigrants present unfair competition for the limited jobs available to our working poor and force them to accept even lower wages. This is an obvious violation of the principles in your post.
More about this is shown in more detail in the referenced below:
The poorest and least educated American workers face job competition from millions of legalized illegal aliens. Letting illegals stay only makes sense if you think the poor are overpaid.
cis.org/articles/2005/camerataoped1005.html
Thus our civil government should indeed restrict and attenuate illegal immigration to aid the more exposed members of our community. Further it is appropriate for our civil government to strive to eliminate illegal immigrants from the country so as to help restore better conditions to our working poor.
Once this restoration is accomplished then our civil government can strive to establish a structure to safeguard the rights of all, both the poorest and least educated members of our community and the foreign nationals who wish to immigrate to the US in pursuit of a better life.
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Ituyu
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I think that the cold-blooded callousness of your previous posts #'s 97 and 130 speak for themselves. It appears that you imply that the “illegal” problem can be solved by eliminating the people that you feel create the problem. We’ve seen that in history before.
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Texas_Roofer
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I appreciate this post however it is simply incorrect. That is why the economists advise the government not to follow the advice. Did you notice he commits the same old garb?
“The Internal Revenue Service must also stop accepting Social Security numbers that it knows are bogus.” *1 sounds like conspiracy theory "We also need to make a much greater effort to deny illegal aliens things like driver’s licenses, bank accounts, loans, in-state college tuition, etc." *1Who is we? “America becomes less hospitable to illegals” Sound like code to me?
The facts are immigrates increase the economic strength of America making the lives of the worker better. If you close the border you will increase the outsourcing of jobs. The outsourcing of jobs will first increase unemployment but also lower the tax base. As the unemployment increases and the tax base lowers the lower skilled workers will a horrible time.
*1 - cis.org/articles/2005/camerataoped1005.html
Illegal immigrants cause harm to and are a threat to the well being of the more vulnerable members of our community. - Post # 197
“The Internal Revenue Service must also stop accepting Social Security numbers that it knows are bogus.” *1 sounds like conspiracy theory "We also need to make a much greater effort to deny illegal aliens things like driver’s licenses, bank accounts, loans, in-state college tuition, etc." *1Who is we? “America becomes less hospitable to illegals” Sound like code to me?
The facts are immigrates increase the economic strength of America making the lives of the worker better. If you close the border you will increase the outsourcing of jobs. The outsourcing of jobs will first increase unemployment but also lower the tax base. As the unemployment increases and the tax base lowers the lower skilled workers will a horrible time.
*1 - cis.org/articles/2005/camerataoped1005.html
Illegal immigrants cause harm to and are a threat to the well being of the more vulnerable members of our community. - Post # 197
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Ituyu
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