I further believe our dear bishop needs to explain precisely how he arrives at his conclusion.In your opinion. I believe the preference against the poor makes it unjust.
As I said earlier given the possible consequences of their actions.However, I would like to point out that the Catechism does teach that those who oppose unjust laws must be willing to suffer the consequences.
Just a reminder before you march in support of illegal immigraion.
How does it extend that far?…aren’t they also in violation to the 4th Commandment Honor Thy Father and Mother? Which does extend to ALL LAWFULL AUTHORITY.
“These women, and men and women across this country like them, remind us that immigrants have always helped to build and defend this country -– and that being an American is not a matter of blood or birth. It’s a matter of faith. It’s a matter of fidelity to the shared values that we all hold so dear. That’s what makes us unique. That’s what makes us strong. Anybody can help us write the next great chapter in our history.”Impeached for stating an obvious historical reality? Or at worst, for giving an interpretation of American identity with which you happen to disagree?
Have you asked them?
This is glaringly illogical. If illegal immigrants are given “amnesty,” they will be Americans. Your position logically implies that only the descendants of the inhabitants of the 13 colonies at the time of independence can be Americans. Do you really mean to maintain this? If not, then what on earth are you saying?
Edwin
I think the structure of the Catechism has left a misunderstanding. All sin, mortal and venial, is classified in accordance to the Ten Commandments. Just because all sin is including in the Catechism under a chapter heading of one of the Ten Commandments, does not make all sin mortal. Venial sin still exists. As already discussed there are limits to obedience to lawful civil authorities that are outlined in the Catechism and elsewhere in Catholic moral teaching. One is not obligated to follow unjust laws.Not sure if anyone has posted this, but in addition to the 7th and 8th Commandments, aren’t they also in violation to the 4th Commandment Honor Thy Father and Mother? Which does extend to ALL LAWFULL AUTHORITY. Not sure if that is mortal sin though.
But be prepared for the consequences.One is not obligated to follow unjust laws.
But you do that for plenty of your fellow countrymen anyways - your taxes provide legal aid for criminals who have done heinous things, medical care for people who cause their own illness by eating appalling diets, not managing their diabetes or whatnot, welfare for a percentage of receipients who could support themselves but are too durn lazy to, and the like. Why should you make distinctions based on a person’s country of origin?A good portion of our taxes go to providing social services. Most of us pay more for medical care because part of what we pay covers teh services to others who cannot or will not pay. Most of us give more to church and charities. Make more money, share more with the poor. Happy to do so. The very rich have foundations. Warren Buffet is giving yet another BILLION dollars. America is very charitible in many ways. But forcing your hand into my pocket is completely different than me willingly sharing.
Is it really a predominate case (as your argument infers) that Americans are in other countries illegally, have broken the laws of the other country, and are then utilizing the resources of the taxpayers of the other country?Do you think there are no Americans living in other countries who require medical treatment, for example, or legal assistance or whatnot while there, and so get assisted by the good taxpayers of those other countries?
Swings and roundabouts, as far as I can see.
There are incredible numbers of people who overstay tourist or temporary working-holiday (or study) visas. And who, as a result, are indeed in Australia (my country) and other countries illegally. And yes, quite a proportion of them (here at least) are from the UK and America, not to mention our neighbour New Zealand - not places renowned for citizens fleeing, but it definitely happens.Is it really a predominate case (as your argument infers) that Americans are in other countries illegally, have broken the laws of the other country, and are then utilizing the resources of the taxpayers of the other country?
Not that it really matters one way or the other.
Wrong is wrong no matter your nationality.
And as I said…There are incredible numbers of people who overstay tourist or temporary working-holiday (or study) visas. And who, as a result, are indeed in Australia (my country) and other countries illegally. And yes, quite a proportion of them (here at least) are from the UK and America, not to mention our neighbour New Zealand - not places renowned for citizens fleeing, but it definitely happens.
Often occurs that the overstayer has family in their country of illegal residence, and want to stay with them longer than their visa permits, or that they fall in love with a local and opt to stay illegally to be with them. That sort of thing.
Not that it really matters one way or the other.
Wrong is wrong no matter your nationality.
Nice phrase - swings and roundabouts. Not sure what it means - What’s good for the goose is good for the gander?? Turn about is fair play? I had a few days in Ipswich and Bisbane, but missed swings . . .But you do that for plenty of your fellow countrymen anyways - your taxes provide legal aid for criminals who have done heinous things, medical care for people who cause their own illness by eating appalling diets, not managing their diabetes or whatnot, welfare for a percentage of receipients who could support themselves but are too durn lazy to, and the like. Why should you make distinctions based on a person’s country of origin?
Do you think there are no Americans living in other countries who require medical treatment, for example, or legal assistance or whatnot while there, and so get assisted by the good taxpayers of those other countries?
Swings and roundabouts, as far as I can see.
Read the article. That bishop wants only a Latino immigration. That would be fair to Latinos. He’s a hypocrite. And even Jesus hated hypocrites.Wow, I don’t think I have ever felt so alone.
I do believe our dear bishop is wrong.
The Catechism specifies what is an unjust law. The current immigration laws do not fit the bill.
I have reviewed the new immigration law in alabama. I have yet to find anything concerning faith, sacramants, baptism, Mass, or scripture study mentioned at all.This new Alabama law makes it illegal for a Catholic priest to baptize, hear the confession of, celebrate the anointing of the sick with, or preach the word of God to, an undocumented immigrant. Nor can we encourage them to attend Mass or give them a ride to Mass. It is illegal to allow them to attend adult scripture study groups, or attend CCD or Sunday school classes. It is illegal for the clergy to counsel them in times of difficulty or in preparation for marriage. It is illegal for them to come to Alcoholic Anonymous meetings or other recovery groups at our churches.
Yes. That is one of the possible outcomes of civil disobedience. Christians have been arrested in the past for their faith and it will happen again.But be prepared for the consequences.
Prescinding from the mortal sin question, the thing that is really annoying in all this is that while the CCC #2241, which you quote, teaches that immigrants must obey the laws of their host country the Joint Statement from the USCCB and the Conference of Mexican Bishops, Strangers No Longer: Together on the Journey of Hope never lists this as an obligation!** Kinda makes ya wonder.The Lair of the Catholic Cavemen blog proved, with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that illegal immigrants are almost always in a state of mortal sin.Why are bishops not teaching their flocks this? Instead, they constantly oppose any opposition not to deport illegals, going through theological gymnastics that it would actually increase crime rate, split up families, etc., when in fact it encourages people to break more laws and ultimately to offend God, from Whom all civil authority originates. But what about the state of the souls of the illegals? Why are not the bishops primarily caring for these souls? Also, why is immigration seemingly more important than abortion? Is it because the U.S. and the U.S. Catholic church is trying to make up for the 50 million missing U.S. citizens lost to abortion? Evil means (tolerating illegal activity) do not justify good ends (that the U.S. have more Catholics). Deus, adiuva nos.
I’m with you here brother. The person who wrote this is a person guided by the flesh and not the spirit. Allow me to point out that Mary, Joseph and Jesus were “illegal” aliens in Egypt. Let us hear the scriptures:As a son of an illegal immigrant ( who worked his behind off so all his 8 children could have better God Given opportunitiies in this country- Not Yours- God,s Country) I cant imagine that your Beliefs are such that you would even dare to write-say-think in such a manner! Do you know that God Almighty in all his Wisdom never said that his doings were to profit anyone other than His Will!! How dare you even write this- I will Pray for You that Our Holy Mother will give you the Gift of Repenting and the Gift of showing COMPASSION to all our Brothers and Sisters who are not as Blessed as You- Would not Our Lord and King have such COMPASSION for you and Yours if God Almighty had placed you in a not so fortunate place in His World! I would summize that you are aware of this---- Give to Ceaser what is Ceaser,s and Give to God what is his!!! I may not have said this right but i am more than certain that you understood! You Brother in Christ-Martin Anchondo. God be with you always!!!
So…we naturalize “an invasion” of poor foreigners making them Americans that will be the end of America? God couldn’t possibly bless this country for granting justice to poor refugees who desperately seek peace and liberty? But instead God will end the world because we didn’t keep the United States purified from poor and desperate people whose lves are at risk? And I bet you are pro life too?" The past is immutable and only of historical interest. Nothing in the past history of America can justify allowing an invasion by millions of poor foreigners. If they become naturalized citizens, that will be the end of America. I would expect a military coup. This is not surprising. The whole world and the Divided States of America are marching toward the End Times, with the Catholic Bishops at the head of the parade.
Your conclusion about the state of another’s soul is erroneous.The Lair of the Catholic Cavemen blog proved, with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that illegal immigrants are almost always in a state of mortal sin.Why are bishops not teaching their flocks this? Instead, they constantly oppose any opposition not to deport illegals, going through theological gymnastics that it would actually increase crime rate, split up families, etc., when in fact it encourages people to break more laws and ultimately to offend God, from Whom all civil authority originates. But what about the state of the souls of the illegals? Why are not the bishops primarily caring for these souls? Also, why is immigration seemingly more important than abortion? Is it because the U.S. and the U.S. Catholic church is trying to make up for the 50 million missing U.S. citizens lost to abortion? Evil means (tolerating illegal activity) do not justify good ends (that the U.S. have more Catholics). Deus, adiuva nos.