Illegal Immigration: What to do?

[Norwich]

Lisa N:

While I assume your comment is a bit tongue in cheek, realize that the Native Americans often did not have a concept of land ownership as did the Europeans. So we didn’t take ‘their’ land because that wasn’t a concept that they understood in many tribes. Further there was a LOT of unpopulated land in this country. It was not ‘owned’ by anyone.

Lisa N

So what you are saying is that the American Indian was more in line with the teachings of the Catholic Church when it says that man owns nothing, all is owned by God and man simply has stewardship of it; which is how the American Indian looked on the land?

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

aspawloski4th:

close the borders, send the illegals back, simple.

Unless you are Native American, or descended of indigenous peoples then **you are descended from immigrants , **& ILLEGAL immigrants most likely.

Do you really believe that your ancestors had the right to rape, murder & steal land from indigenous peoples? Does this give you the right to keep others from entering a country of which you are not a native & they may well be?

Do you not realiize that ALL “Latin Americans” are descended of indigenous people & are in fact Native Americans?

The United States of America IS NOT “America”. “America” is the name given to the ENTIRE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, not the United States alone. I laugh at people that call themselves “American” because that word applies to all people that live on this land mass, not just U.S. citizens.

The people you call “illegals” are NATIVE AMERICANS.

You’re statement was racist & disgusting.

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

deport all illegals. and stop pretending that we dont know where they are.
create a system for peopel to obtain work visas with relative ease. and police the system
Stop with the PC frear, if you see a person that you are suspicious of, entering at an odd boder (EG a saudi entering across the rio grande) stop him, ask him some more questions.

:tsktsk:
I’d love to see some of you work the fields or clean hotel rooms for a living & then be told, “sorry, even though we like for you to work like slaves you gotta go back to the country you came from because your skin color is starting to bother me & you don’t speak our language properly.”

Please my previous post, same applies to you.

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

Lisa N:

Look I am sorry about your situation but you are absolutely dead wrong if you think** illegals** cannot send their kids to ANY public school (which must accommodate their lack of English among other problems) or walk into ANY emergency room and be refused care. You do not have to prove citizenship for either school or medical treatment. I DO deal with a large Catholic hospital every day and I ASSURE you illegals are a serious financial burden for this hospital that already provides millions every year in charity care…for citizens and non-citizens alike. Not only do they have to provide medical care but they also must have translators on staff as many i**llegals **cannot speak English. Most of our illegals are from Mexico and South America so having someone who speaks Spanish will usually suffice. But again, why does the hospital and the school have to bear this burden for people who are not here legally?

FWIW in this county the** Hispanic population has increased 45% in just a few years. It IS a problem**.

Lisa N

YOU ARE A RACIST!

& your use of the word “illegal” is so offensize it makes me want to vomit!!!

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

aspawloski4th:

I happen to live in a part of grand rapids michigan where there are a lot of ilegally imigrated hispanics. I live nextdoor to a hispanic family(that refuses to learn english still after 4 years of being there. and I deliver lots of pizza to them in my second job. most of them, Id estemate 70 to 75% in my area just dont want to asimilate. most wont learn english, which linguistically is more close to their langauge than any of the languages my ancestors spoke. they seem to have their own separate society on my side of town with having their own stores and clubs. I can think of 4 parishes near me with spanish Masses. which the diocese organized for them, not by them selves. enough is enough. close the borders, and what we cant send back learns english of get sent back anyway. my ancestors spoke polish , austrian(german), and Irish gaelic, my wifes ancestors spoke french, dutch, and lithuanian, and noone learned those languages for them. they had to learn eglish on their own and quick.so Im not learning spanish for them. if one wants to learn english and assimilate fine. theres a vietamese refugee family that my family helped with that 30 years ago and they are all good lawabiding citizens. but the freeloading has to end.

YOU ARE DESCENDED OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! & YOU TOO ARE A RACIST!

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

Dai:

First, the US imports more oil from Mexico than any other country in the world. (So I hear.) Second, Mexico is actually a wealthy nation with a lot of poor people.

Nothing will change until the political elite in Mexico adopt the Catholic principal of charity.

US will not pressure Mexico to adopt more humane policies for its rural poor as long as we are dependent on their natural resource. US must find a way to reduce oil consumption (hybrid, alternative energy source) or we will never stop being victimized by the Saudi and our other so called friends.

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

jlw:

You bring up a good point. Who takes care of the Mexican poor?? The United States does!! The Mexican Government doesn’t have to do it, doesn’t have to pay for it, and while the working poor cross the border to find jobs at 5 times the current pay in Mexico, THOSE DOLLARS COME BACK TO THE MEXICAN ECONOMY when the money is sent home!!

These same people work 10-12 hour days many times in the sweltering heat picking YOUR vegetables & clean up after YOUR children in schools…

Why shouldn’t they send THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY back home to their families???

Moderators: Please lock this thread before more hatred & racist bile floods this forum.

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

Norwich:

Be very careful friends, remember, as far as the native American Indians are concerned, most of your ancestors were illegal immigrants!!!

This is 100% truth.

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

Lisa N:

While I assume your comment is a bit tongue in cheek, realize that the Native Americans often did not have a concept of land ownership as did the Europeans. So we didn’t take ‘their’ land because that wasn’t a concept that they understood in many tribes. Further there was a LOT of unpopulated land in this country. It was not ‘owned’ by anyone.

Lisa N

This is 100% garbage.

You really have no idea of what you are talking about do you?

Our idea of “ownership” was not the same as Europeans in that we did not put a price on the land we populated, but we did populate it, ALL OF IT.

No claims were staked, but the entire Western Hemisphere WAS POPULATED by one nation/tribe/people or another before 1492.

Imagine, if only Christopher Columbus was not a fool that sailed the wrong way…

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

The only way to stop illegal immigration is to dry up the job market for them. People will go where there are jobs and no amount of security will stop them. They will find a way around the security if they can find work and there are no jobs at home. The way to stop them is to send people who knowingly hire them to prison and make sure their govenments do everything in their power to establish a good economic base so that business will flourish in their home countries thus creating jobs at home for them.

Yeah, I’d like to see you pick lettuce & grapefruits for a few dollars a day, or clean someone else’s house for a mere 40 dollars a week.

It’s unbelievable how some of you think.

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

marinebiogurl04:

I agree

May God have mercy on you.

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

Norwich:

I wonder if that’s how the Spanish justified their actions in South and Central America?

Moctezuma (not “Montezuma”) made the mistake of offering the Spaniards gold to go back across the waters to where they came from.

It took Cortez about 7 years to enslave the Aztec Nation.
It took the U.S. government over 400 years to do the same to the natives that populated parts of North America.

I am a descendent of both Aztec & Mescalero Apache peoples.

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

Tom of Assisi:

Capture the ones that are here now and ship them back to where they come from. Build a massive wall between the US and “meh he co” and put our military on the boarder. Someone else tries to cross over…shoot to kill.

YOU ARE SICK!
SICK,SICK,SICK!!!

I hope you rot , rot in hell for that statement you sick jerk!

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

MarySon:

I would argue that all illegal immigrants over here came to US for financial reasons. Or came as ‘turists’ and decided to prolong their stay for a while.
Secondly, I do not sincerely think that deporting all illegal immigrants to where they came from, is good for the economy. Most of them work in low paying jobs and I do not see any ‘cradle’ Americans rolling up their sleves and filling their positions.

Thank you.

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

AServantofGod:

I realize there is a strain on the economy and much of it is said to be attributable to illegal immigration. However, the hostility I feel here is terrifying. The “just capture them & ship them back” as if people were animals is unChristian. Plus, this could lead from illegal immigrants to the US children born to illegal immigrants to all Hispanics not in the US more than 5 generations, etc. Or, of course, this can lead to the “just capture them & ship them back” of any group we don’t feel is contributing or didn’t arrive in the US the way we think they should have.

Let’s keep in mind that we are talking about people not an adjective (“illegals” degrades people to an adjective reflecting strong negative feelings). Many of the people who try or do cross the US borders have sacrificed greatly to try and improve life for themselves and their families. Many have lost their lives. The poverty they are fleeing must be extremely oppresive if they are willing to takes such risks and make such sacrifices.

The problem is one between the governments of Mexico and the United States. Let’s keep the hostility away from the people.

 

[Dj_Roy_Albert]

Norwich:

So what you are saying is that the American Indian was more in line with the teachings of the Catholic Church when it says that man owns nothing, all is owned by God and man simply has stewardship of it; which is how the American Indian looked on the land?

Don’t both with this Lisa N person, she obviously has no intelligence whatsoever. She hates Mexicans, that is clear, but I don’t hate her back, I just pity her.

 

[Norwich]

Dj Roy Albert:

Don’t both with this Lisa N person, she obviously has no intelligence whatsoever. She hates Mexicans, that is clear, but I don’t hate her back, I just pity her.

The problem is Dj that your rants and tirades do nothing more than give justification to those who oppose you. Lisa is probably a person of high intelligence, that does not mean that she is either right or wrong. She has an opinion, one that I tend to disagree with but, when you post some of the un-though out gall that you have been, all you are doing is reinforcing the very prejudice you so despise and at the same time displaying your own personal prejudices. That is not dialogue, its polarisation. Polarisation is a situation where the further apart you are the louder you have to shout to be heard and the more you are perceived to be extreme. Simple equation really.

If you want to be understood:

THINK CAREFULLY,
LISTEN DILIGENTLY
SPEAK QUIETLY.

Or, if you want it another way:

MAN WAS BORN WITH TWO EARS AND ONE MOUTH,
THEREFORE HE SHOULD LISTEN TWICE AS MUCH AS HE TALKS.

Could be a lesson for all of us.

 

[Lisa_N]

Norwich:

So what you are saying is that the American Indian was more in line with the teachings of the Catholic Church when it says that man owns nothing, all is owned by God and man simply has stewardship of it; which is how the American Indian looked on the land?

I don’t know enough about the invdividual tribes to make a broad statement like that. But there were a number of nomadic tribes that moved around and thus had no reason to “own” land that they did not occupy most of the year. I know that various tribes had their territories but I think it was more of a territory for hunting or a large area where they could settle for a season. I grew up in an area where a particular tribe lived most of the year in one area but came to the valley floor to harvest camas bulbs. They would stay to harvest and dry the bulbs and then return to the other area.

From what I can tell the idea of private property (land) was more likely in civilizations that were involved in cultivation and farming. If you are hunting and gathering, it probably wouldn’t have made sense to own land since the animals being hunted moved around a lot.

Lisa N

 

[Lisa_N]

Dj Roy Albert:

Don’t both with this Lisa N person, she obviously has no intelligence whatsoever. She hates Mexicans, that is clear, but I don’t hate her back, I just pity her.

After reading your recent series of posts, I do have to wonder why you came up with such odd misconceptions. If you read my posts you would have noticed that one of my major concerns about illegal immigration is that it allows the workers to be exploited by their employers. They are paid substandard wages, live in disgraceful little shacks, and have no worker’s compensation although they often work in dangerous occupations. Because they are not legal workers they have no recourse against these employers. Further because of their lack of documentation they are exploited by check cashing companies that take a huge cut out of their checks to give them cash. They are exploited by landlords who can demand large,non-refundable deposits before they can rent an apartment.

I take it you believe the current system allowing the exploitation of these people is the way to go? Or could you possibly see the merit in establishing some kind of documentation that would allow the people to come to the US to work legally and thus be protected by the same laws our citizens and legal immigrants have to protect them?

Lisa N

 

[TarAshly]

Oh Lord keep my words patient and charitable. i had to literally walk away and take a deep breath before posting. Lisa N its pretty common knowledge you and i consistently butt heads on MOST issues. this of course is one of them. i have lived in Mexico and worked in the orphanages there. i have been to the slums, seen cardboard boxes taped together, been chased by small children selling ANYTHING they could for money to eat. have you seen these things in that country. i have also witnessed the process to get a visa just to come home to visit it takes over A YEAR to get one just to come here for a few weeks being taken advantage of coyotes bribing their families for more money, keeping them in semi trucks and trailers with no air and no water. lets put it this way HITLER would be proud. this people risk their lives to come over here and work hard for money you and i scrape out of the coffee holders in our cars when we clean them out. for wages! they do jobs none of you would probably be willing to do! what a selfish spoiled society we have become. i am shocked an appauled by the racial undertones here. guess what LISA N i was an ESL teacher for a while (english as a second language) im sorry if a childs inability to speak english offends your delicate american nature. forgive them for not being taught the most difficult language in the world to learn, from uneducated empoverished families. Im sure they would make the necesary adjustments for your comfort if they could. so when you lay your head down at night on your soft pillows in your warm homes, let me remind you of families forced to put their children in filthy orphanages, because its better than the boxes they have for shelter, they come to see their children and beg to be taken home, but the mothers leave them there because they know they will be fed. let me remind you of the countless Lice treatments i assisted with for these poor children, for the severly disfigured children in the streets begging for money for food, and us americans down there to buy our cheap tile and serapes and tequila look at them as if they were monsters and walk on by. yes i hope something is done about it. i hope jobs are made available, i hope education is made available, i hope financial advisors are made available in this country and in Mexico to help those who do not know how to help themselves. im 1/2 Chickisaw indian, and i just watched my great grandfathers farm get built over by a casino, and my great grandmother recieved nothing because her father was so ashamed and afraid for his family that he never once registered with the national registry of native americans, he thought he could make more wages, and live a better life denying his heritage. Lisa N i pray often for you and will continue to do so. the racism here is sickening.