Illegal Immigration

[Sonny69]

I do not support illegal immigration and I think any nation should be allowed to secure and protect its borders. I have a personal stake in this too. I am not a citizen of the nation I reside in, even though I would love to. I have to wait until I can apply because there is a requirement on how long I have to be a resident before I can apply.
I went through a long process to get to the US anyways, just because I was married to a soldier and he got transferred back to the US.
Illegal immigrants shed a bad light on all other immigrants as well who have saved up money and spend hours waiting in line and to get their paperwork straight.
Any normal immigrant has to go through this process and then it still takes years to get citizenship.
I cannot understand how some people sneak themselves into the country, bypassing the system and then not expect that this same system will throw them out when they are caught.
I don’t think that the US owes anything to people who sneak up on her.
I do not have a problem with immigrants, I am an immigrant. I have a problem with those who break the law by coming here and the ones who support this.

Illegal Immigration is an oxymoron and an insult to those who have immigrated to this country legally. There was a mediagroup association that decided that using the term “illegel aliens” or “illegal immagrants” was an insult to the Latino population, which is laughable since they temselves just painted a broad stoke by implying that Latinos make up all of the illegal aliens. Human wisdom and philosophy??? I believe we should call it like it is; FC’s or Foreign Criminals, which is what they are and they insult all those that did it the correct and legal way, which nearly all of us have people who legally and patiently entered the country.

I believe we should send a strong message to those folks who enter illegally. On the issue of the children; i believe we honor the law, which gives them automatic citizenship, but we do send them back with their parents and at the age of 18, then they should be free to “come home”.

God bless everyone and I hope we all have a blessed 2011 and may the Lord return this coming year or sooner. S69

 

[d97c]

Excellent post. Happy New Year. Its gonna be a rough ride ! Thats fine----lets get it on and have some fun …

 

[sidbrown]

It was faulty intellagence information about WMD’s. Britain and America along with other countries all believed there was WMD’s and they acted on that information. It turned out to be fauly information.

Its easy to ask where do the greatest commandments come onto the decision making of our countries when your not in their seats. Its easy to be a arm chair QB once the hard decisions are made. Its easy to say “I would have done it another way” when you were not present during any of the coversations. What if there were WMD’s there and our governments did nothing about it and the WMD’s were used. You would be singing a different tune today. You would be saying, “Why didn’t they go in a bomb the h— out of them. How could they let this happen.” Or would you have said, “Lets remember to do the greatest commandments while making decisions even if its too late.”
How did you feel when you saw those 2 planes hit the WTC? Did you say, “Oh I’m sure they will find some way to justify their actions.” I’ll bet thats not what you said nor how you felt. How did you feel when you saw people jumping out of the buildings so they would not burn to death? What would you say to those families who lost husbands, wives, brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers. aunts, uncles. Would you say to them “Ya know I’m sure they will justify their actions.”

Who’s more wrong. Years upon years upon years upon years upon years these things have been happening to these people. And you have to ask “who’s more wrong.”

Sure we make mistakes. Sure we are not perfect. But we are a heck of a lot better then those countries, those dictators, those terroists, who kill their citizens for no good reason. Who blow up innocent people, men women and children for no reason and what I posted earler. All this is done on a daily basis, not once in a while or by bad information its done purposly everyday.These people live in fear every second of their lives. Do you? Do you have to worry about what they worry about? Do you go through what they go through on a daily basis? And you ask WHO"S MORE WRONG.

Dropping two atomic bombs on thousands of women and children, kidnapping and torturing people. drones killing civilians, wiping out thousands of native American Indians and taking over their land, these don’t seem quite right to me.

 

[sidbrown]

I am not interested in your interpretation of scripture.

What then is your interpretation of the following passages: Leviticus 19
33 " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 24
You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.

Exodus 22:21
"Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt.

Leviticus 19:10
Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.

Exodus 12:49
The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you."

 

[d97c]

OK then …your interpretation of the phrase “…do not mistreat an alien” would mean that there are no borders. Are you really saying that whoever gets into this nation, violating the laws, taking American jobs, falsifying Soc Security numbers, cheating out those who have NOT violated the laws, taking benefits they dont deserve—those people, if they are NOT given those benefits, or welcomed with open arms…that amounts, to you, to “mistreatment??” Seems you are taking those phrases and saying that simply not giving an illegal immigrant what he wants is “mistreatment.”
Did you know that most of the illegal immigrants who sneak in here had jobs in Mexico before coming here??
If you think we need to allow ANY immigranst who wants to come here to do so, by just walking over the border, ANYONE, then I want you to write the first check to care for MOST of the worlds population who immediately coem into this natoion. You obviously have not really thought of the impact of your selective quoting of old testament language…OH and by the way what do you think of what Mexico does to their illegals?
gopusa.com/commentary/mmalkin/2010/mm_04281.shtml

 

[Ender]

What then is your interpretation of the following passages: …

My interpretation of Scripture, like yours, is irrelevant. What is relevant is how the Church interprets it, and she doesn’t interpret those verses like you do. I quoted comments on immigration from a half dozen Church sources, respond to those citations or provide your own citations that support your position. I’m quite sure you will find that difficult to do since the Church has never said anything that supports Cardinal Mahony’s claim.

Ender

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Dropping two atomic bombs on thousands of women and children, kidnapping and torturing people. drones killing civilians, wiping out thousands of native American Indians and taking over their land, these don’t seem quite right to me.

No one alive today killed Indians and took their land. You are just like every other anti-American (who still loves the freedom they have by living in America) who hates this country and will jump at the chance to make these lists of horrible “wrongs” the US has done throughout history and try to twist that into a reason for allowing others to do whatever they want in opposition to the law. Who has been kidnapped and tortured? Do you equate the arrest of suspected terrorists to “kidnapping”? I would like an example other than someone being deprived of sleep in Guantanamo Bay.

We are now in a time of war and terrible things happen during wars. While it is not a good thing, citizens ARE unfortunately killed during wars. It is not intended, but they come as an unintended consequence of war. The difference between bombings of military sites in Iraq and what the terrorists are doing is very clear–the terrorists intentionally target innocent citizens. The US does not. End of story. In fact, just last night terrorists in Egypt set off a bomb outside a Coptic church as Christians were leaving Mass, killing 21 people. Show me an instance where the US has set off a bomb outside a worship service with the intention of murdering innocent civilians as they exit the building. You cannot.

Forgive me if I’m not taking your arguments as seriously as you’d like, but I find it hard to take someone seriously when they attempt to show that the US is no better than the Al Qaeda terrorists.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[LCMS_No_More]

HMM lets see, where did these illegal settlers come from?
Who were these illegal settlers?
Answer:They came from England they were English settlers and a part of the UK which consists of the following 4 countries, England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Whales.

Might makes right.

 

[Sonny69]

Might makes right.

Hi LCMS,

I noticed you wear your Christian heart on your sleeve as represented by your signature. May the Lord bless you. S69

 

[sidbrown]

My interpretation of Scripture, like yours, is irrelevant. What is relevant is how the Church interprets it, and she doesn’t interpret those verses like you do. I quoted comments on immigration from a half dozen Church sources, respond to those citations or provide your own citations that support your position. I’m quite sure you will find that difficult to do since the Church has never said anything that supports Cardinal Mahony’s claim.

Ender

It is understandable why you would not want to give us your interpretation of these passages from Holy Scripture.
And the fact is that Roger Cardinal Mahony is a Catholic Cardinal in good and excellent standing with the Catholic Church. He has set up a public website on the internet as I noted above, and I don;t see where anyone from the Vatican has raised the slightest objection to his website or to his comments on immigration.

 

[sidbrown]

No one alive today killed Indians and took their land. You are just like every other anti-American (who still loves the freedom they have by living in America) who hates this country and will jump at the chance to make these lists of horrible “wrongs” the US has done throughout history and try to twist that into a reason for allowing others to do whatever they want in opposition to the law. Who has been kidnapped and tortured? Do you equate the arrest of suspected terrorists to “kidnapping”? I would like an example other than someone being deprived of sleep in Guantanamo Bay.

We are now in a time of war and terrible things happen during wars. While it is not a good thing, citizens ARE unfortunately killed during wars. It is not intended, but they come as an unintended consequence of war. The difference between bombings of military sites in Iraq and what the terrorists are doing is very clear–the terrorists intentionally target innocent citizens. The US does not. End of story. In fact, just last night terrorists in Egypt set off a bomb outside a Coptic church as Christians were leaving Mass, killing 21 people. Show me an instance where the US has set off a bomb outside a worship service with the intention of murdering innocent civilians as they exit the building. You cannot.

Forgive me if I’m not taking your arguments as seriously as you’d like, but I find it hard to take someone seriously when they attempt to show that the US is no better than the Al Qaeda terrorists.

In Christ,
Rand

Tens of thousands of innocent women and children were killed when the USA dropped atomic bombs on Japan. This doesn’t seem like an especially good thing to me.
Christians are leaving Iraq by the hundreds of thousands after the US invaded Iraq and created a chaotic condition in which so many Christians were killed. And the USA is funding abortion clinics in Iraq, which were not there before so that many thousands of innocent preborn children can be killed. Your only answer to this is to call me names and slander me as an anti-american who hates his country, and all the while you are turning a blind eye toward the abortion clinics funded by the USA in Iraq where thousands of innocent unborn can be killed without mercy.

 

[starshiptrooper]

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were of miltary significance. Thus, they were logical targets for the atomic bombs. However, I fail to see the significance of today’s Iraq and yesterday’s atomic bombs when discussing illegal immigration.

This is my solution for combatting illegal immigration:

1. We build a fence and take any other practical measures to secure the borders.
2. We make English the official language.
3. We cut off all financial aid to illegal immigrants.
4. The immigration status of anyone who is arrested should be checked. Turning in illegal immigrants should be encouraged.
5. When we catch an illegal immigrant we do these 2 things

a. give him 25 lashes

b. use his assets to pay for his trip out of the US

1. If an illegal immigrant who has been deported tries to apply legally for citizenship, his application goes out in the trash
2. Anchor babies are deported with their parents.

Steps 2, 3, and 4 have been implemented in Missouri.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

No one alive today killed Indians and took their land. You are just like every other anti-American (who still loves the freedom they have by living in America) who hates this country and will jump at the chance to make these lists of horrible “wrongs” the US has done throughout history and try to twist that into a reason for allowing others to do whatever they want in opposition to the law. Who has been kidnapped and tortured? Do you equate the arrest of suspected terrorists to “kidnapping”? I would like an example other than someone being deprived of sleep in Guantanamo Bay.

We are now in a time of war and terrible things happen during wars. While it is not a good thing, citizens ARE unfortunately killed during wars. It is not intended, but they come as an unintended consequence of war. The difference between bombings of military sites in Iraq and what the terrorists are doing is very clear–the terrorists intentionally target innocent citizens. The US does not. End of story. In fact, just last night terrorists in Egypt set off a bomb outside a Coptic church as Christians were leaving Mass, killing 21 people. Show me an instance where the US has set off a bomb outside a worship service with the intention of murdering innocent civilians as they exit the building. You cannot.

Forgive me if I’m not taking your arguments as seriously as you’d like, but I find it hard to take someone seriously when they attempt to show that the US is no better than the Al Qaeda terrorists.

In Christ,
Rand

:clapping::clapping::yup::bowdown:

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I AM OPPOSED TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. And let me tell you why. Illegal immigration is not the cause of our bad economy, but it is a contributing factor. Let me explain. An illegal gets hired. The person hiring him or her knows that person is illegal. The hirer takes advantage of that situation and offers a take it or leave it low wage. Since the wage is low, so are the payments to local and federal taxes. And since they receive low wages they can’t purchase the goods and services of other businesses, as much many of us are able to. Thus forcing those other businesses to either downsize or close up shop. Downsizing reduces individual taxes collected. Shut Downs illiminate business taxes that could have been collected. I also suspect a percentage of their (illegals) wages, however big or small, is sent to their homelands. Money not used in America without getting a good or service in return is BAD for America. And don’t forget the U.S. citizen who isn’t hired at a fair wage who would have payed a higher tax and could have purchased the goods and services of other businesses to prevent, or at least minimize their shut downs or downsizings , but is forced to collect welfare or unemployment which is a super heavy heavy strain against our tax system, which in turn causes our taxes to increase, but more and more of us are less able to pay those increases because there is less and less OF us. Like I said at the beginning of this post: Illegal immigration is not the cause of our bad economy, but it IS a contributing factor.

The employers who hire illegals also get put out of business. Illegals know the game by now. They learn the trade, steal the tools from their employer, and then go into business for themselves, taking business away from the employer who first hired them. They never pay taxes but now, they don’t necessarily give low-low-low bids, either. They know how to compete but they don’t take slave wages. Meanwhile they get all the benefits that US citizens don’t even qualify for.

Are we a nation of laws, or not? That is the fundamental question at hand. If some laws don’t apply to citizens of other countries here illegally, what laws can I violate and get away with violating? This makes me angrier EVERY DAY that it continues. Democrats are so obviously allowing these people to continue to flood our country so that they can bribe them with goodies and have votes into the coming century.

 

[d97c]

Starship…excellent ideas and I hope we can get that done.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Tens of thousands of innocent women and children were killed when the USA dropped atomic bombs on Japan. This doesn’t seem like an especially good thing to me.
Christians are leaving Iraq by the hundreds of thousands after the US invaded Iraq and created a chaotic condition in which so many Christians were killed. And the USA is funding abortion clinics in Iraq, which were not there before so that many thousands of innocent preborn children can be killed. Your only answer to this is to call me names and slander me as an anti-american who hates his country, and all the while you are turning a blind eye toward the abortion clinics funded by the USA in Iraq where thousands of innocent unborn can be killed without mercy.

Christians in the Middle East are fleeing because of ISLAM, not the US. It is not safe for a Christian to be there with Islam taking over. It’s MUSLIMS who kill Christians in the Middle East, for the most part. Let’s get the responsibility where it lies. Cite a source for this abortion clinic statement. If so, it would be under the auspices of the current president, not the previous one. Obama is the most pro-abortion Senator ever and he is lauded by Planned Parenthood.

p.s. Let’s stay in the here and now, shall we? Slavery in this country is over and so is WWII and the decisions made at the time. It’s irrelevant what was done in Japan, when it comes to illegal immigration TODAY, right now. Are we a nation of laws or one of anarchy? That’s the question. What laws apply to you? What laws apply to me, and which ones apply to illegals breaking into this nation, for any reason whatsoever?

 

[sidbrown]

Christians in the Middle East are fleeing because of ISLAM, not the US. It is not safe for a Christian to be there with Islam taking over. It’s MUSLIMS who kill Christians in the Middle East, for the most part. Let’s get the responsibility where it lies. Cite a source for this abortion clinic statement. If so, it would be under the auspices of the current president, not the previous one. Obama is the most pro-abortion Senator ever and he is lauded by Planned Parenthood.

p.s. Let’s stay in the here and now, shall we? Slavery in this country is over and so is WWII and the decisions made at the time. It’s irrelevant what was done in Japan, when it comes to illegal immigration TODAY, right now. Are we a nation of laws or one of anarchy? That’s the question. What laws apply to you? What laws apply to me, and which ones apply to illegals breaking into this nation, for any reason whatsoever?

There were Muslims and mosques in Iraq before the US waged war on Iraq, and Christians were not fleeing. Hundreds of thousands of Christians have fled Iraq after the US invaded the country and created the chaotic condition there. And according to lifesite news, the US has funded abortion advocacy organizations to the tune of over a billion dollars between 2002 and 2009. Why is it anti-American and why are people accused of hating America when they declare their opposition to this funding for abortion advocacy?

 

[sidbrown]

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were of miltary significance. Thus, they were logical targets for the atomic bombs.

So according to you it is OK to murder thousands of innocent women and children civilians by atomic bombs? I don;t think this is in accord with Catholic teaching.

However, I fail to see the significance of today’s Iraq and yesterday’s atomic bombs when discussing illegal immigration.

Yes. But please realise that I was not the one who brought up the question of sharia law, stoning people, torturing people, and throwing acid in women’s faces. This was brought up by someone else. (See post #49)

 

[Ender]

There were Muslims and mosques in Iraq before the US waged war on Iraq, and Christians were not fleeing. Hundreds of thousands of Christians have fled Iraq after the US invaded the country and created the chaotic condition there. And according to lifesite news, the US has funded abortion advocacy organizations to the tune of over a billion dollars between 2002 and 2009. Why is it anti-American and why are people accused of hating America when they declare their opposition to this funding for abortion advocacy?

So what? Whether or not your claim is true it is undeniably irrelevant to the question being debated. Get back to the question of immigration … or is it your opinion that since (according to you) America is such a great national sinner, it is OK for others to take advantage of her? Is this your “two wrongs make a right” argument?

Ender

 

[sidbrown]

So what? Whether or not your claim is true it is undeniably irrelevant to the question being debated. Get back to the question of immigration … or is it your opinion that since (according to you) America is such a great national sinner, it is OK for others to take advantage of her? Is this your “two wrongs make a right” argument?

Ender

I was not the one who brought up the question of sharia law.