Illegal Immigration

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Shame on these schools that are responsible for teaching some of these posters who express such hatred for the United States. Where did they get such an anti-American belief? Ender puts it correctly----What is it about you folks that prompts you to enjoy others committing crimes against the United States(like the illegals,) and in spite of them lying to get in front of others who obey the laws? It almost begs the response, “Well, then, go where you are happier.” Maybe Mexico or Guatamala is for you.
What other crimes would you be so happy to excuse and what other criminals would you allow to take advantage of our system? Maybe burglars are next on your kindness trip. Now, for sure, it is not a murder, but we who have posted here have shown time and again the mistake that has been made in allowing the illegals to come here by such a lax enforcement. For sure, they wouldnt have come without the magnet of possible jobs, but what is the difference in that and excusing the burglar who sees the gold coins in a safe inside a house? It’s there, so he is forgiven for stealing it? because HE says he is “needy.” These illegals come here and they demand, demand, and demand. They expect to be given jobs, present for free health care at emergency rooms, steal Soc Security numbers, send their money back to Mexico or wherever, DARE you to try to do something about them or else there will be repercutions in the next election, and facilitate liberal and foolish Bishops who re-direct resources of a parish toward them (like required bi-lingual masses,)(and you dog-gone better not say anything about it!!) Im sick of it and it’s time for them to GO!! Illegal immigration NO!
LEGAL IMMIGRATION YES !!!
 
starshiptrooper said:
This is my solution for combatting illegal immigration:
  1. We build a fence and take any other practical measures to secure the borders.
  2. We make English the official language.
  3. We cut off all financial aid to illegal immigrants.
  4. The immigration status of anyone who is arrested should be checked. Turning in illegal immigrants should be encouraged.
  5. When we catch an illegal immigrant we do these 2 things
a. give him 25 lashes

b. use his assets to pay for his trip out of the US
  1. If an illegal immigrant who has been deported tries to apply legally for citizenship, his application goes out in the trash
  2. Anchor babies are deported with their parents.
Steps 2, 3, and 4 have been implemented in Missouri.
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There are practical ways which would successfully end the invasion, but it will never happen. The U. S. government will not allow it to happen and further, the bishops with their far left **political **leanings would make individual non-binding statements against such actions which would continue to confuse Catholics about authentic social justice teaching, and we would all be exhorted to “welcome the stranger and love our neighbor.”
 
sidbrown said:
There were Muslims and mosques in Iraq before the US waged war on Iraq, and Christians were not fleeing. Hundreds of thousands of Christians have fled Iraq after the US invaded the country and created the chaotic condition there. And according to lifesite news, the US has funded abortion advocacy organizations to the tune of over a billion dollars between 2002 and 2009. Why is it anti-American and why are people accused of hating America when they declare their opposition to this funding for abortion advocacy?
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Christians have always fled persecution by Islam in the Middle East. Everywhere Islam goes and takes control, Christians are at risk of and are being killed in large numbers. The US is not at fault for the conditions in the Middle East.

This thread is not about the Middle East, not about WWII, not about slavery. It’s about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and whether or not this is a nation built on justice and laws that apply to EVERYONE. Stop trying to throw random subjects in to confuse the thread.
 
d97c said:
Shame on these schools that are responsible for teaching some of these posters who express such hatred for the United States. Where did they get such an anti-American belief? Ender puts it correctly----What is it about you folks that prompts you to enjoy others committing crimes against the United States(like the illegals,) and in spite of them lying to get in front of others who obey the laws? It almost begs the response, “Well, then, go where you are happier.” Maybe Mexico or Guatamala is for you.
What other crimes would you be so happy to excuse and what other criminals would you allow to take advantage of our system? Maybe burglars are next on your kindness trip. Now, for sure, it is not a murder, but we who have posted here have shown time and again the mistake that has been made in allowing the illegals to come here by such a lax enforcement. For sure, they wouldnt have come without the magnet of possible jobs, but what is the difference in that and excusing the burglar who sees the gold coins in a safe inside a house? It’s there, so he is forgiven for stealing it? because HE says he is “needy.” These illegals come here and they demand, demand, and demand. They expect to be given jobs, present for free health care at emergency rooms, steal Soc Security numbers, send their money back to Mexico or wherever, DARE you to try to do something about them or else there will be repercutions in the next election, and facilitate liberal and foolish Bishops who re-direct resources of a parish toward them (like required bi-lingual masses,)(and you dog-gone better not say anything about it!!) Im sick of it and it’s time for them to GO!! Illegal immigration NO!
LEGAL IMMIGRATION YES !!!
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I want to know which laws I can break and get away with. Which benefits are MY kids eligible for, because we have never broken the law and are good, tax-paying citizens? What benefits do they get because of their skin color or ethnicity?

Answer: None, because they are not a group of desirable voters to progressives, and although they are Catholic, we are not Democrats and are not likely to vote against the tenets of the faith. We cannot break laws but there is a group of people who will continue to get away with it because politicians and religious leaders turn a blind eye.

Edit to add: And what does this say to the millions of people who immigrated LEGALLY? It says, “You got SCREWED because you did it the right way.”
 
sidbrown said:
Dropping two atomic bombs on thousands of women and children, kidnapping and torturing people. drones killing civilians, wiping out thousands of native American Indians and taking over their land, these don’t seem quite right to me.
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Seeing that you didn’t put where you live I can only assume its not in the United States by what seems to be a strong dislike for the country.
I’m not going to justify what the U.S. has done in the past or even in the present. I was not there in the meetings that made them decide what, when, where, why and how they did what they did.
Now the American Indians fought among eachother for land, water rights, animals and just because they didn’t like the other tribe.
If you do live in the U.S. and own property then if you think its so bad that people in the past took over their land give your land back to the American Indians. If you don’t then you are just as guilty of taking their land. But ya know, I don’t hear them yelling and screaming about how they had their land was taken away from them. I hear people like you who don’t have a dog in this fight (if there was a fight) ranting and raving about it.
But this thread is not about that its about illegal immigration. Now if you have something to say about that I would be more then pleased to discuss it with you.
 
sidbrown said:
So according to you it is OK to murder thousands of innocent women and children civilians by atomic bombs? I don;t think this is in accord with Catholic teaching.

Yes. But please realise that I was not the one who brought up the question of sharia law, stoning people, torturing people, and throwing acid in women’s faces. This was brought up by someone else. (See post #49)
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It was me who brought them up in response to your post 46 which by the way you did not answer any of the questions I asked.
 
sidbrown said:
Tens of thousands of innocent women and children were killed when the USA dropped atomic bombs on Japan. This doesn’t seem like an especially good thing to me.
Christians are leaving Iraq by the hundreds of thousands after the US invaded Iraq and created a chaotic condition in which so many Christians were killed. And the USA is funding abortion clinics in Iraq, which were not there before so that many thousands of innocent preborn children can be killed. Your only answer to this is to call me names and slander me as an anti-american who hates his country, and all the while you are turning a blind eye toward the abortion clinics funded by the USA in Iraq where thousands of innocent unborn can be killed without mercy.
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What part of any of this has anything to do with the issue of illegal immigration? I didn’t call you any names at all. I said you are, judging by the content of your posts, anti-American in the meaning of the word–you are against America and what America does. That is not name calling or slandering.

I don’t see how you can say I’m turning a blind eye to abortion clinics when that has never been discussed in this thread. You just brought it up in this post and then accused me of turning a blind eye to it. I’ve not said a single word about abortion in this thread, so how can you say that?

And for the record, not that this really has anything to do with the topic of this thread either, Iraq is not the only country that has Christians being attacked by Muslims on a regular basis. In Indonesia that is commonplace and the US has no military presence there. The US being in a country has nothing to do with that country’s own Christians being attacked and killed by that country’s Muslims. It was happening in Iraq long before the US got there…it’s just more publicized today.

In Christ,
Rand
 
Rand_Al_Thor said:
What part of any of this has anything to do with the issue of illegal immigration? I didn’t call you any names at all. I said you are, judging by the content of your posts, anti-American in the meaning of the word–you are against America and what America does. That is not name calling or slandering.

I don’t see how you can say I’m turning a blind eye to abortion clinics when that has never been discussed in this thread. You just brought it up in this post and then accused me of turning a blind eye to it. I’ve not said a single word about abortion in this thread, so how can you say that?

And for the record, not that this really has anything to do with the topic of this thread either, Iraq is not the only country that has Christians being attacked by Muslims on a regular basis. In Indonesia that is commonplace and the US has no military presence there. The US being in a country has nothing to do with that country’s own Christians being attacked and killed by that country’s Muslims. It was happening in Iraq long before the US got there…it’s just more publicized today.

In Christ,
Rand
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He’s just a troll, throwing all these random subjects into the thread in order to draw conversation away from the topic, which is ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, not slavery, not Indian wars, not WWII, and not abortion.
 
d97c said:
…Maybe Mexico or Guatamala is for you.
What other crimes would you be so happy to excuse and what other criminals would you allow to take advantage of our system? Maybe burglars are next on your kindness trip.
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The following information comes from a justice for immigration Catholic parish kit that explains the USCCB’s position on immigration and contains tools for parish organizing.

MYTH: Immigrants increase the Crime Rate
FACT: Recent research has shown that immigrant communities do not increase the crime rate and that newly arriving immigrants tend to commit fewer crimes than native born Americans. Ruben Rumbaut, a professor of sociology at Brande¬is University, found that “even as the undocumented population has doubled to 12 million since 1994, the violent crime rate in the United States has declined 34.2 percent and the property crime rate has fallen 26.4 percent.” Cities where there are high levels of immigrants, such as New York, Chicago and Miami experienced de¬clines in violent crime during this period. Other cities with numerous immigrants, such as El Paso and Laredo, are among the country’s safest cities to live in.

justiceforimmigrants.org/parish-kit.shtml
 
Oh thats rich…the crime rate of the US is going down BECAUSE of the influx of illegal immigrants?? Next you will be telling me that BECAUSE of illegal immigration, as a RESULT of illegal immigration, those employees of emergency rooms that have CLOSED because of illegal immigration are BETTER OFF because now they have to spend time looking for jobs, thereby expanding their social network! Come on man, research first !!
Read this about illegal alien crime !!
The cost of incarcerating illegal aliens in Arizona prisons and jails amounts to about $80 million a year (not including the monetary costs of the crimes that led to their incarceration).
fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters5e3f
A study study found identifiable12 costs of illegal immigration to the Texascriminal justice system of $145 million, of which $117 million was direct incarceration ofimmigrants. Additionally, the federal government reimbursed the state by $26 million, fora net cost of $119 million.
webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3AFdZ5fk1TgZIJ%3Asystem.gocampaign.com%2Ffiles%2Ffile.asp%3Ff%3D165355+immmigrants+close+hospitals+2009+texas&hl=en&gl=us
Illegal immigrants are just seven percent of Arizona’s population, but make up nearly 15 percent of the state’s prison population. They represent 14 percent of all inmates jailed for manslaughter and murder, and 24 percent of inmates on drug charges - troubling to many Arizonans - even if the overall crime rate is down.
cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20011391-10391695.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody
and while you are at it, wonder how the family of this Catholic Nun who was killed by this illegal alien thug who was let out by the feds feels about the illegal alien CRIME RATE !!
washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/2/illegal-immigrant-killed-nun-released-by-feds/?clear_cache_true
Quoting liberal propaganda is not a good debate tactic. The PEOPLE of Arizona know better !!
 
Yeah it’s all about peace - Ciudad Juarez is being deserted because the drug cartels hold parties every weekend. Problem is, the parties involve rolling heads across dance floors and burning homes and businesses to the ground.
 
sidbrown said:
The following information comes from a justice for immigration Catholic parish kit that explains the USCCB’s position on immigration and contains tools for parish organizing.

justiceforimmigrants.org/parish-kit.shtml
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Justice for Immigrants is one of many community organizations founded, not to help the poor immigrant directly, but to give political clout to leftist causes. Certainly you have heard of Saul Alinsky and liberation theology. Threads abound on this forum just in case you’d like to research this purely POLITICAL group and others which are also funded by the Soros Foundation.
 
Tigg said:
Justice for Immigrants is one of many community organizations founded, not to help the poor immigrant directly, but to give political clout to leftist causes. Certainly you have heard of Saul Alinsky and liberation theology. Threads abound on this forum just in case you’d like to research this purely POLITICAL group and others which are also funded by the Soros Foundation.
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So when the Catholic bishops teach Catholic social justice on immigration it is giving political clout to leftist causes? This sounds like someone who is a dissenter from the infallible Catholic teaching of Lumen Gentium.
The primary objectives of the campaign for Justice for Immigrants are:
• To educate the public about Church teaching on migration and immigrants;
• To create political will for positive immigration reform;
• To enact legislative and administrative reforms based on the principles articulated by the bishops; and
• To organize Catholic networks to assist qualified immigrants obtain the benefits of the reforms.
Meet the founding member organizations of Justice for Immigrants.
• Catholic Campaign Against Global Poverty
• Catholic Campaign for Human Development, The
• Catholic Charities USA
• Catholic Health Association
• Catholic Legal Immigration Network, Inc., The
• Catholic Relief Services
• Conference of Major Superiors of Men
• Hispanic Affairs - USCCB
• Irish Apostolate USA
• Jesuit Conference
• Jesuit Refugee Service
• Leadership Conference of Women Religious
• Migration and Refugee Services - USCCB
• National Catholic Association of Diocesan Directors of Hispanic Ministries
• National Catholic Educational Association
• National Council of Catholic Women
• Network
• Roundtable, The
• Sisters of Mercy of the Americas, The
• Social Development and World Peace - USCCB
justiceforimmigrants.org/meet-members.shtml
 
sidbrown said:
So when the Catholic bishops teach Catholic social justice on immigration it is giving political clout to leftist causes? This sounds like someone who is a dissenter from the infallible Catholic teaching of Lumen Gentium.
The primary objectives of the campaign for Justice for Immigrants are:
• To educate the public about Church teaching on migration and immigrants;
• To create political will for positive immigration reform;
• To enact legislative and administrative reforms based on the principles articulated by the bishops; and
• To organize Catholic networks to assist qualified immigrants obtain the benefits of the reforms.
Meet the founding member organizations of Justice for Immigrants.
• Catholic Campaign Against Global Poverty
• Catholic Campaign for Human Development, The
• Catholic Charities USA
• Catholic Health Association
• Catholic Legal Immigration Network, Inc., The
• Catholic Relief Services
• Conference of Major Superiors of Men
• Hispanic Affairs - USCCB
• Irish Apostolate USA
• Jesuit Conference
• Jesuit Refugee Service
• Leadership Conference of Women Religious
• Migration and Refugee Services - USCCB
• National Catholic Association of Diocesan Directors of Hispanic Ministries
• National Catholic Educational Association
• National Council of Catholic Women
• Network
• Roundtable, The
• Sisters of Mercy of the Americas, The
• Social Development and World Peace - USCCB
justiceforimmigrants.org/meet-members.shtml
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Sid, I believe you are confusing legal immigrants with illegal immigrants.
 
qui_est_ce said:
Sid, I believe you are confusing legal immigrants with illegal immigrants.
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I think it includes both. For example, here is part of a statement by Archbishop Jerome E. Listecki, Thursday, 05 August 2010:
"Now we are confronted with the question of the millions of illegal immigrants. Certainly there were laws prohibiting illegal immigration, but the execution was not always enforced. In fact, it might be suggested that many governmental agencies looked the other way and even tolerated illegal immigrants. If the law is not being enforced, does a sudden radical enforcement severely injure those individuals and families that relied upon the tolerance?

Many of us do not realize how difficult it is to become a citizen through the normal channels. It can take up to 12 years, and legal immigration cannot only be expensive but is often extremely bureaucratic and sometimes arbitrary. "
“… those who want to load all illegal immigrants on buses, planes or trains and have them returned to their homeland would be exempting our society from the responsibility that we have had as Americans for creating the environment which permitted and tolerated the current situation.”
chnonline.org/herald-of-hope/archbishop-jerome-e-listecki/9648-welcoming-immigrants-rooted-in-human-dignity.html
 
sidbrown said:
I think it includes both. For example, here is part of a statement by Archbishop Jerome E. Listecki, Thursday, 05 August 2010:
"Now we are confronted with the question of the millions of illegal immigrants. Certainly there were laws prohibiting illegal immigration, but the execution was not always enforced. In fact, it might be suggested that many governmental agencies looked the other way and even tolerated illegal immigrants. If the law is not being enforced, does a sudden radical enforcement severely injure those individuals and families that relied upon the tolerance?

Many of us do not realize how difficult it is to become a citizen through the normal channels. It can take up to 12 years, and legal immigration cannot only be expensive but is often extremely bureaucratic and sometimes arbitrary. "
“… those who want to load all illegal immigrants on buses, planes or trains and have them returned to their homeland would be exempting our society from the responsibility that we have had as Americans for creating the environment which permitted and tolerated the current situation.”
chnonline.org/herald-of-hope/archbishop-jerome-e-listecki/9648-welcoming-immigrants-rooted-in-human-dignity.html
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Here is the HUGE problem with those 2 examples. What if I steal a car which is then reported stolen by the owner. I drive it around town. It’s obvious that it is NOT my car, but the police have other more serious crimes to investigate. However, one month there is a hard crackdown on stolen cars and they see me driving it and arrest me. OR…I sell drugs, and I fear being caught, so I steal an identity of someone else. However, one month I am discovered as the person who has hidden their crime and become someone else? Should I be arrested because"execution was not enforced" quick enough??? WHAT PRECEDENT ARE YOU SETTING HERE??
Second------your second example says this to criminals “If I cant get what I want through legal channels, YOU ARE JUSTIFIED in taking it anyway.” Here’s the precedent you are setting: If I , in my OWN judgment, believe a law is slow,(“difficult” is the quote) …or not good enough or causes ME delay,as the person wanting this benefit or freebee … I can violate it!!! Where would you draw the line…what other crimes-according to Sid-is it ok for me to violate because I dont like the way it EFFECTS me??? Can I cheat the IRS because it is slow or unfair?? or takes too much of my money?? Just try it !! It is ab-so-lute-ly unbelievable what extent these people will go through to coddle these illegal aliens. NONE wants to put them on trains , planes or automobiles and carry them back. STOP THE JOBS NOW. STOP THE HEALTH CARE NOW AND THE FREEBEES. They will go back. Bet-cha !
Sid—your prescription for law enforcement in society, if practiced consistently, means NO law enforcement. …and what you quoted is surely not Catholicism !
 
sidbrown said:
I think it includes both. For example, here is part of a statement by Archbishop Jerome E. Listecki, Thursday, 05 August 2010:
"Now we are confronted with the question of the millions of illegal immigrants. Certainly there were laws prohibiting illegal immigration, but the execution was not always enforced. In fact, it might be suggested that many governmental agencies looked the other way and even tolerated illegal immigrants. If the law is not being enforced, does a sudden radical enforcement severely injure those individuals and families that relied upon the tolerance?

Many of us do not realize how difficult it is to become a citizen through the normal channels. It can take up to 12 years, and legal immigration cannot only be expensive but is often extremely bureaucratic and sometimes arbitrary. "
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For many of us who have actually gone through the normal channels, we know the process. And we learned English, at the same time as keeping our cultural traditions. We never forced anyone to speak German or to conform to our traditions.
S:
"… those who want to load all illegal immigrants on buses, planes or trains and have them returned to their homeland would be exempting our society from the responsibility that we have had as Americans for creating the environment which permitted and tolerated the current situation."
chnonline.org/herald-of-hope/archbishop-jerome-e-listecki/9648-welcoming-immigrants-rooted-in-human-dignity.html
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Interesting. Now it’s America’s fault these people came in illegally. If we try to rectify what we were doing wrong (looking the other way), that’s wrong too.

I seem to remember your arguing Catholic Church Teaching contracts the Bible in another thread. Now you are picking and choosing excerpts from different bishops, who are not speaking ex Cathedra to make your case.

Here is what Archbishop Chaput has to say about illegal immigration:

“Illegal immigration is wrong and dangerous for everyone involved,” he asserted. There is nothing good about people risking their lives to enter the U.S., and there is nothing good about Americans not knowing who crosses their borders, “especially in an age of terrorism, drugs and organized violent crime.”
 
d97c said:
Here is the HUGE problem with those 2 examples. What if I steal a car which is then reported stolen by the owner. I drive it around town. It’s obvious that it is NOT my car, but the police have other more serious crimes to investigate. However, one month there is a hard crackdown on stolen cars and they see me driving it and arrest me. OR…I sell drugs, and I fear being caught, so I steal an identity of someone else. However, one month I am discovered as the person who has hidden their crime and become someone else? Should I be arrested because"execution was not enforced" quick enough??? WHAT PRECEDENT ARE YOU SETTING HERE??
Second------your second example says this to criminals “If I cant get what I want through legal channels, YOU ARE JUSTIFIED in taking it anyway.” Here’s the precedent you are setting: If I , in my OWN judgment, believe a law is slow,(“difficult” is the quote) …or not good enough or causes ME delay,as the person wanting this benefit or freebee … I can violate it!!! Where would you draw the line…what other crimes-according to Sid-is it ok for me to violate because I dont like the way it EFFECTS me??? Can I cheat the IRS because it is slow or unfair?? or takes too much of my money?? Just try it !! It is ab-so-lute-ly unbelievable what extent these people will go through to coddle these illegal aliens. NONE wants to put them on trains , planes or automobiles and carry them back. STOP THE JOBS NOW. STOP THE HEALTH CARE NOW AND THE FREEBEES. They will go back. Bet-cha !
Sid—your prescription for law enforcement in society, if practiced consistently, means NO law enforcement. …and what you quoted is surely not Catholicism !
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Should a Catholic listen to an anonymous blogger on the internet or should he listen to the reasonable statements of the Catholic bishops, such as Cardinal Mahony, Archbishop Jerome E. Listecki, Archbishop Gonzales, etc. ? I think that the answer is crystal clear according to the papal encyclical Lumen Gentium.
 
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