Illinois bishops announce shutdown of adoption services

[irishpatrick]

Poor, poor babies and children.

Exactly!

 

[Teelynn]

Don’t you think that Christians living through WWI and then WWII, must have thought the world was coming to an end?

Yes, probably. I actually don’t think the world is coming to an end, but I do think we are headed for a tribulation…maybe the “Great Tribulation.” Two different things. However, no one really knows the hour or the day so? I am assuming at this point, MY end will come quicker than THE end. But Jesus WILL come again, and he DID give us things to watch for. Sometimes I have the feeling that people are in denial about that. Like it’s never going to happen and we will just go on and on forever. It’s our faith…“and Christ will come again.” Might be tomorrow or might be 2,000 years from now, but “Christ will indeed come again.”

 

[Holly3278]

The Tribulation is not here, at least not yet. We are seeing the Church go through pains, which caused the world around it to respond in kind.

We need to not look for the end, but rather help convert the world today!

This is very true. We do need to work to help convert the world. I try to evangelize in my daily life. I don’t think I am very good at it but hopefully I at least plant some seeds that the Holy Spirit will grow in the people I meet and have encounters with.

Well, Jesus himself gave us some things to watch for. Our recent Popes have also chimed in on this…one of the prominent things would be the great apostasy and lack of faith. It might in fact get even worse in this area, but I would say, we can see that happening even now. Pope John Paul has said a number of things on this and so in fact has Benedict. When the signs of the times are scripturally documented, I don’t think Jesus meant for us ignore it. When asked directly how we would know…He didn’t say, “oh that is none of your concern”, but gave concrete sign posts. But yes, as others have said, we are not meant to be obsessed with prophecies, but are encouraged to live the gospel. Pray, receive the sacraments, strive to become closer to Jesus, and not to hide our “light” under a bushel basket. In other words, be ready to meet the bridegroom at any time. This has ALWAYS been the message of the Church from day one. No one knows the hour or the day.

God Bless you,
Teelynn

This is true Teelynn. As for the signs mentioned in the Bible, I believe we are already seeing a lot of the things mentioned in the Bible. As for the Great Apostasy, I often wonder if the Protestant Reformation wasn’t somewhat of a fulfillment of that.

That said, you are right in that we must pray, receive the sacraments, strive to become closer to Jesus, and not hide our light. I am definitely trying to become more sanctified. And you are right that we don’t know the day or the hour. Therefore, we must be in a state of grace at all times because we don’t know when Jesus will return. He may return very soon or He may wait a long while. Regardless, He is going to come again and therefore, we must be ready for His return.

 

[Teelynn]

Don’t you think that Christians living through WWI and then WWII, must have thought the world was coming to an end?

I guess in a certain respect, everything is relative. During WW1 and WW11 society, and the family in particular were still pretty much in tact. Yes, there were problems, there was sin as always, but nothing to really threaten the cohesiveness of society via the family. We have to take a “wait and see” on this whole gay movement, but if the radicals get their way, gay marriage will be accepted and widespread, and the structure of the family will REALLY start to disintigrate. And it all started with Roe V Wade. As Mother Teresa said, any country or society that permits the destruction of human life is headed for complete collapse. They now have legalized abortion not only in our country, but many others. Like I said, we need to “wait and see”, but I think anyone who knows anything about the direction world culture is going in, will tell you we are headed for destruction. The persecution of Christians world wide has also increased, which is scripturally foretold. It is hard to imagine that Christians in this country would be persecuted via execution, or what they refer to as “red martyrdom” but I can tell you that on the East Coast the lawsuits are already starting with Clergy standing their ground on the gay movement. There is one now in court about a clergy preaching scriptural principles on homosexuality. (hate crime)

No, it’s is not raining torrents, so to speak, but the clouds are starting to form. Anyone who cannot see this needs to take a second look at the continuing decline of society, and then make an estimate on that alone of where things are headed.

 

[choose_to_love]

@joe or anyone

I am not getting the issue here entirely, I think. Under the new IL regs, couldn’t CC still provide adoption services privately, i.e., no grants/direct reimbursement from the State. Isn’t the issue the receipt of grant monies from the state for the foster care system and then adoptions out of that foster care system?

I am envisioning a situation in which CC gets a grant or something from the State to run all or a portion of a foster care system. A mother looking to place a child for adoption goes to CC, they take the baby into foster care, and the foster parents are reimbursed through CC which in turn gets a grant from the state to fund that program. Is that about right?

If so, I see some distinct issues. One, is it a good idea for the gov’t. to “partner” with the private charity to accomplish the State, because the private charity can do it cheaper, more efficiently, better, etc.? If the answer to that is “yes”, must the private charity then abide by other pertinent regulations, i.e., the antidiscrimination ones?

Also, is it a good idea for the private charity to be dependent on State money?

If my understanding is correct, I will take the contrary position to most in the thread; this is not discrimination. CC can do all the placements it wants, but must fund itself. I understand the practical implications of this (or at least I think I do - - the private charities are for all practical purposes out of business), and I do not think it is a good idea from a pragmatic standpoint for the State government, as it will surely be more expensive to hire state employees to do what the charities were doing. However, just because something is a bad idea does not make it discrimination in the constitutional sense.

Thoughts?

 

[incense]

I’m not sure if that’s the entire issue because the gov has been pressuring for religious rights to be restricted to the worship service only. That’s why you’ll hear the new wording of “freedom of worship” instead of “freedom of religion” And if there is a question of religious rights, the religious group has to prove to the satisfaction of the judger (be that judge or civil servant) that the legal requirement would interfere with religion.

So prove to me why a Catholic organization would be violating their religion by placing children in homosexual homes? It has nothing to do with the mass. Is it specifically in the Bible? Is it written in our code of Canon Law? Has the Pope decreed it? Are you judging homosexuals to be inferior? Aren’t you just prejudiced or homophobic?

 

[Teelynn]

i’m not sure if that’s the entire issue because the gov has been pressuring for religious rights to be restricted to the worship service only. That’s why you’ll hear the new wording of “freedom of worship” instead of “freedom of religion” and if there is a question of religious rights, the religious group has to prove to the satisfaction of the judger (be that judge or civil servant) that the legal requirement would interfere with religion.

So prove to me why a catholic organization would be violating their religion by placing children in homosexual homes? It has nothing to do with the mass. Is it specifically in the bible? Is it written in our code of canon law? Has the pope decreed it? Are you judging homosexuals to be inferior? Aren’t you just prejudiced or homophobic?

really?

 

[Birdpreacher]

This is so ridiculous. pornography is allowed all over the place while a Holy cause of God has to be shut due to the pagans having so much power.

Congratulions advocaters of separation of state and Church.

Its only getting shut down because the Holy Cause of God was relying on State tax-payer money. The Porn industry is strong enough to pay for itself. Sad reflection of our society’s values huh

 

[choose_to_love]

@teelynn

I understand incense’s post as follows: the second paragraph is the hypothetical questions the “judger” in incense’s post would be asking.

I think that is raising a different issue than the one I identified. Does IL mean that a private adoption agency, i.e., one not getting funds from the state, cannot exclude unmarrieds and/or homosexual couples from adopting? That is not my understanding.

That leads to the next logical issue, which will be the likely circumstance that the private charity is a nonprofit. Will it lose its tax status if it refuses placements to homosexuals?

 

[incense]

@teelynn
That leads to the next logical issue, which will be the likely circumstance that the private charity is a nonprofit. Will it lose its tax status if it refuses placements to homosexuals?

You really don’t understand. It’s not just a matter of tax status. They’ll be sued for violation of civil rights and be forced to place children in homosexual homes. Quit thinking logical and look historical. See what’s already happening.

This battle has to be fought sometime. The Catholic Church threatens the homosexual agenda. Therefore, they are waging war on us one step at a time. We should fight while we’re strong, and not after we’ve given up so much there’s not much reason to fight anymore.

 

[incense]

really?

Really. You think you see the distinction clearly, but let’s say you have to prove it. Imagine you have to prove your case to a civil servant who really doesn’t give a fig for you, probably thinks you religious people threaten his piece of the power. He/she might actually be antagonistic towards religion and/or the Catholic Church in particular. That group of individuals grow everyday. What would be your arguments? This would probably be a great exercise that the lawyers might draw from one day. It’s only a matter of time.

 

[incense]

These are quotes from the article in the thread about the San Francisco diocese problems:

A Superior Court judge on Nov. 18 issued an opinion that would throw out an attempted multi-million-dollar “delinquent” tax bill imposed on the Archdiocese of San Francisco by the San Francisco assessor/recorder, Phil Ting, after a more than three-year legal fight…Ting’s effort to collect the tax had been supported by the city’s Transfer Tax Review Board, consisting of three city employees, which concluded the archdiocese was not exempt from a transfer tax…
The archdiocese also noted that the proposed tax had the illegal effect of charging the archdiocese a fee to exercise its constitutional right to organize according to its religious needs…Wesolek continued, “The Assessor/Recorder apparently expected the archdiocese to roll over in the face of this attack but underestimated the resolve of the church. It is unfortunate that the miscalculation forced the archdiocese to spend more than three years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in attorneys’ fees to defeat this illegal action, but the archdiocese is hopeful that the Assessor/Recorder’s office will now be dissuaded from taking similar measures in the future.”

Notice the expense and time and it was all due to 3 lowly civil servants exercising their might. Now rethink the Illinois Catholic adoption issue.

Now do you understand the need to be able to explain your religious rights? Do you understand the pain it is to defend your religious rights, even when you’re right? Do you understand how important every single case is, and how we need to show a strong front so they know not to mess with us? Defend 'em or lose 'em.

 

[incense]

Also, is it a good idea for the private charity to be dependent on State money?

If my understanding is correct, I will take the contrary position to most in the thread; this is not discrimination. CC can do all the placements it wants, but must fund itself. I understand the practical implications of this (or at least I think I do - - the private charities are for all practical purposes out of business), and I do not think it is a good idea from a pragmatic standpoint for the State government, as it will surely be more expensive to hire state employees to do what the charities were doing. However, just because something is a bad idea does not make it discrimination in the constitutional sense.

Thoughts?

As further proof

lifesitenews.com/news/quebec-to-ban-prayer-in-home-based-daycares?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=69ac8bf9bf-LifeSiteNews_com_US_Headlines11_24_2011&utm_medium=email

Canada first banned prayer in public day cares, now in private day cares. The point is to eliminate Christianity. Quit buying their arguments that allows you to cook before you realize you’re already in hot water.