I'm a confused atheist

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Pi, or should I say 3.14159265…

I was where you are not too long ago. I have a science background (B.A. in paleontology, now finishing up an MS in geology, after a 26 year Air Force career). I was an atheist/agnostic my entire life. I’ve always drifted along with the thinking: if you can’t apply the scientific method, and devise a testable hypothesis, it cannot be proven and therefore cannot be known as true. Faulty thinking, and lazy and shallow to boot. If the hypothesis is: “there is a God,” then what is the test? How could there be a test of a being greater and more powerful than we can possibly imagine? The hypothesis obviates the need for a test. Another way to look at it, is: how do you use the scientific method to prove/disprove love? Could be God’s love for us, or love of a spouse, etc. Can’t be done. This is a realm meant for other methods of validation and justification. Science is great for examining the natural world. It’s useless for understanding the purpose behind the natural world.

Real immersion in science–specifically, being outside and doing detailed field work, using a mass spectrometer to figure out the ages (up to 3.6 billion years old) of zircon crystals, thinking about the building of mountain ranges over millions of years–is what led me to really thinking hard about God. You cannot look at the incredible beauty, complexity, and harmony of the natural world and believe that it all happened by chance. This is one of the main points of Collins’ book, at least IMHO.

Something to think about: look at the “experiement,” step 4, on the conversion diary blog. conversiondiary.com/2008/04/finding-god-in-5-steps.html

I strongly recommend that you join an RCIA program. There is absolutely no committment involved, until (and if) you freely make a decision and commit. It is a great place to learn, get your questions answered, and probably meet some people who are struggling with the same issues as you. Nobody is going to pressure you to convert. I was pleasantly surprised–Catholics just don’t seem to be that way. I guess they figure that if you are open to the truth, you’ll see the truth and be converting sooner or later.😛

Here is another website with many answers to questions about faith and Catholicism: beginningcatholic.com/
 
Dear Confused…I just want you to know that I empathize and hope you keep searching and asking questions. My mom, an aetheist and a product of a long line of Masons (pretty anti-Catholic), took it personally when I became Catholic. She’s pretty much resigned to the fact at this point so if you decide to take the leap of faith, I imagine your true friends will too…you’ll get a lot of questions, though! It helps to understand that faith and reason aren’t opposed. They reinforce each other. My first step was to understand that belief in God wasn’t an irrational thing or a crutch…many highly educated, well-rounded, and mentally-balanced people do believe. (Read “Darwin’s Black Box”…written by an aetheistic journalist who wanted proof against God from the scientists he went to and got anything but.)
Another thing…many Jewish people believe that Moses probably wrote the first 5 books of the Old Testament…would have had plenty of time as they wandered in the desert for 40 years. Writing over 1,000 years before Jesus was born, the only things he would have considered as light sources would have been the sun, moon, stars, and the campfire, right? So when he was writing the first chapter of Genesis, about the creation of the world (Note: the Jews thought the word “day” might mean 24 hours or a period of time…Like,“In my day…”), why did he write that God said, “Let there be light…” on the first day and that the sun, moon, and stars were created on day four? That makes no sense unless the God who started the Big Bang on Day 1 had inspired him to write that. Also, about 800BC the prophet Isaiah (Chapter 54, verse 10) wrote, “…For just as from the heavens the rain and snow come down and do not return there till they have watered the earth…” That’s evaporation! Another God inspired science moment. And if anybody brings up the fact that Galileo was persecuted by the Church? Not so. He was censured, but it’s tough to judge historical events from a 21st Century perspective…if you went outside for several days and watched the sun travel through the sky, wouldn’t you think the sun was moving around the earth? Anyway, he wasn’t persecuted, just asked to be quiet until he had proof. He didn’t listen.
Jesus is real…historians and Jews wrote about him.He said he was God, which is a pretty amazing claim and the reason they crucified him. The options are that he’s a liar, a lunatic, or Lord.So, read one of the Gospels…Matthew and Luke are my favorites. And the New American Bible is written in a beautiful way to our ears. Look at exactly what Jesus says and you’ll have a hard time believing he was a liar or a lunatic. He has taught me how to forget about myself…how to love and forgive the people who hurt me. If mankind was going to invent a story, I’m pretty sure they would have invented a less demanding kind of God. And I don’t think 10 of the 12 apostles who were later martyred for their faith would have done that for a liar or a lunatic, either.
Finally, go with your intuition and stay with the Catholic Church. There are other less demanding ways to go, but if you’re going to become a member of a Church, don’t settle for less than the real thing. EWTN is a Catholic TV network. One of the shows that may help when you’re ready is The Journey Home (Mondays at 8pm). It’s the story of how people struggled to become Catholic and how they wrestled with different teachings of our Church on their way. A lot of them are former pastors, so they also left their jobs behind in the process.
I’m going to pray for your perseverance. It won’t be easy, but you’ll find real peace. My wish is that you end up loving God with you whole heart. It’s the only thing he really needs from any of us. God bless you.
 
Confident non belief is really a lot easier. It just doesn’t fill the hunger in the soul.

Years ago I would suggest you go to a Catholic Church and sit quietly and listen to you heart. Jesus is there and he would love the company.

Listen quietly
 
Dear Confused,
I apologize for making a mistake in my response to you last night. I suggested a book, “Darwin’s Black Box”, which is good for debunking evolution…written by a micro-biologist…but it wasn’t the one I’d meant to suggest. The aetheistic journalist I’d mentioned, Lee Stroebel, had a column in the Washington Post, I think, and made a bet with one of his friends. Being fed up with religion in general, he bet his friend he could get enough evidence to finally disprove the existence of God. After interviewing well-respected scientists in 6 different fields of study…also hoping to get some material for his regular column…he became a believer and wrote several books. The one I meant to refer you to is “The Case for Christ”.
 
If you are confused and you are having this “feeling of spirituality” You can just be assured that God has his sites on YOU. You need to have a good grounding on the “goundless belief system of atheism”, which is based more on an emotional basis rather than a rational basis. Here are some very good books for you to read and re-think about the “so-called rationality” of atheism. Here goes…1. There is A God (How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed the World. (The atheist being Antony Flew) by Antony Flew
  1. World Net Daily Bookstore has two books on Atheism, one written by Vox Day and
    the other is written by Ray Comfort called You Can Lead an Atheist To Evidence
    But You Can’t Make Him Think! Incidentally, Ray Comfort challenged Richard
    Dawkins, one of the most noted scientists to a debate and offered him $10,000.00
    to openly debate him. Richard Dawkins refused, but then called Ray Comfort “a fool
    and an idiot!” If Richard Dawkins is SO adamant and has every possible argument
    against theism down pat, then WHY won’t he debate Comfort? We all know that the
    self-proclaimed “country boys” are many times more brilliant than the so-called
    expert scientists!
  2. Read the Legal and Historical arguments for Theism and Christianity by the summa
    cum laude graduate/author Josh McDowell called Evidence That Demands A Verdict
    and his second book, More Evidence that Demands A Verdict. Also, read the book
    by a lawyer, who was an atheist, who wanted to legally provide arguments to disprove
    the Resurrection called More Than A Carpenter, Who Moved The Stone!
  3. YOU need to be true to your “gut level instincts” because gut level instincts have a
    100% accuracy in pointing you to the reality of the situation! Gut level instincts are
    what Christians call, the moving of the Holy Spirit within that individual!
ALSO…the very best book to challenge your arguments both philosophically and rationally is Thomas Aquinas book Summa Theologica!

If your question is honest and NOT a joke or sham…these books will get YOU to think that Atheism was NEVER a logical argument but rather a emotional argument to justify a person’s belief system in setting him/herself as the “center of the universe”, justify a spirituality that is based on the “feel-good” ethic and the absolute justification of the empty rational/ethical system of “relativism!”

YOU need to move elsewhere and try to search out YOUR real identity while you are sorting out the evidence for Theism and the groundless rational arguments posed by atheism? Also, check out the belief systems of McKay (a famous microbiologist) and Fred Hoyle (astronomy/physics). These two scientists has the intestinal fortitude to defend their beliefs in God rather than go with the majority of scientists who are atheists! Both scientists wrote books or articles and I think that might be covered in You Tube!
 
Pi314 said:
First off, this might be in the wrong forum. I’m guessing. :\

So, I’m an atheist, have been for years. Suddenly the whole atheism thing isn’t feeling right. I feel like I’m missing something, but I can’t put my finger on what (I got into a good school, I love my job, I have wonderful friends). But it’s not something I can talk about to much of anyone. All my friends are atheists. All the professors I’m close to (and usually talk to) are atheists too. Anyone I talked to, if they know me, would think I’m a crazy hypocrite.
I guess what’s bugging me is this interest in God, and Catholicism specifically, having been an atheist for so long. I don’t like it when I don’t have a logical explanation for something. I don’t have an explanation for this. And it’s not like it’s been one day, it’s been almost a year of feeling like this. Seriously, I woke up one morning last December and thought “I should be a nun”. Which is ridiculous of course since I’m an atheist, and that’s like the extreme end of religion. But I can’t get that line of thinking out of my head.
I looked into becoming a Catholic, but then I always stop short, because everyone I know would think I’m a nutty hypocrite to change my mind like that.
I don’t even know what I’m talking about really. Just wanted to get it out… I’m just all confused. I kind of want to just go back to being confident and happy in my non-belief. It was easier.
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Wow…you sound exactly like where I was at a little over a decade ago. An atheist, a feminist, and suddenly, one day, found myself praying the rosary for no logical reason. I’d never prayed the rosary before. I’d never even seen it prayed before! I just, decided to pick it up and start praying it. Very weird. If you’d known me then, you would have wanted to check my temperature, or take me to the doctor, or something! Now here I am.

There is no ‘rational’ explanation because God was just…tugging…at me. The same way He is doing to you. I’ve met many former atheists and agnostics, and their conversion stories are much like mine. All of a sudden, for no real discernable reason, this sudden “pullling” at the soul. There is no logical argument, no philosophical “aha!” moment–it’s just a strange sort of…I don’t know. They just find themselves believing. Oh, sure, the logical arguments help, but they don’t put the nail in the coffin of our unbelief. It’s so hard to explain it, so I know EXACTLY how you feel. Confused. “What the heck is going on?!” “Hey, wait a minute! I’m an atheist!” “What am I doing?!” Yeah, totally been there.

I still don’t get it. I just know, like I know the stars exist, and snow is cold, and fire is hot, that He exists. I think it’s funny…how God doesn’t let our brains get involved. I think, maybe it’s because He doesn’t want us, as former atheists, to get prideful or arrogant–to think ‘oh, I came to this conclusion myself.’ Instead, He makes an example, in us, of His Grace, His Mercy, and His Love. An example of our weakness glorifying Him.

So, I’m digressing, as I always do. I’ll tell you what…there are many stories of atheistic women who had these sudden bolt-out-of-the-blue, road-to-Damascus conversions, then end up as nuns–typically Carmelites. Edith Stein was one of them.

Anyway, please feel free to pm me, if you like. 🙂 I will be praying for you, and I’ll follow this thread very closely.
 
Lots of books have been suggested, and I’ll add a few more. Dinesh D’Souza’s What’s So Great About Christianity addresses many of the atheist arguments (including scientific). Peter Kreeft takes a more philosophical approach in his book Yes or No. He’s a philosophy professor at Boston College and has free MP3s you can download on his web site: peterkreeft.com. There’s also a book about a woman who had been an atheist, along with her husband. She became a Christian, although her husband and all of their friends were still atheists. Her husband ridiculed her faith and tried to pull her away, but it didn’t work. She died young, at which point her husband found her diary and realized that she had offered up all of her suffering for his salvation. He then had a conversion experience, became a Catholic, and then a priest. The book is called Secret Diary of Elisabeth Leseur.

The may be putting the cart before the horse, but maybe you are going to lead the way for some of your friends. God does have a sense of humor, you know!
 
Ginger said:
Dear Confused,
I apologize for making a mistake in my response to you last night. I suggested a book, “Darwin’s Black Box”, which is good for debunking evolution…written by a micro-biologist…but it wasn’t the one I’d meant to suggest. The aetheistic journalist I’d mentioned, Lee Stroebel, had a column in the Washington Post, I think, and made a bet with one of his friends. Being fed up with religion in general, he bet his friend he could get enough evidence to finally disprove the existence of God. After interviewing well-respected scientists in 6 different fields of study…also hoping to get some material for his regular column…he became a believer and wrote several books. The one I meant to refer you to is “The Case for Christ”.
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One can be a Catholic while believing in evolution. There is no contradiction between Catholicism and evolution; in fact, the Bible appears to confirm evolution in such passages as Genesis 1’s, “and the land created the animals according to their kinds.”

The Church has said it sees nothing contradictory to the faith in the science of evolution. The problem comes in when people make the blind faith statement that everything is science and God is not needed. They have no way of knowing the boundaries of science or the mysteries of the universe beyond the miniscule amount that can be calculated from this tiny planet. However, some make the faith statement that this material is it and there’s nothing beyond the material. That is blind faith, the very “sin” many atheists accuse Christians of committing. But in reality, there is no evidence to back unbelief in God, for it is impossible to prove a negative.

But there is a lot of evidence backing Christianity. I can cite many apologetics books or link sources describing various powerful miracles. “The Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel is a really good source of evidence surrounding the New Testament’s historical accuracy.
 
I’ve been trying to pray, but I feel like I’m talking to myself. But from what I’ve been reading, that seems to be the case with lots and lots of people at first.
I’m also struggling with a problem at school. I am/was (I’m not sure which tense to use now) an atheist, but actually one of those outspoken get-God-out-of-school atheists. Now I’m dealing with my atheist friend wanting me to talk to someone about the Christian club’s Christmas event thing. In the past I would have been all over that, not stopping them since that’s not allowing, but at least trying to/making it hard for them to carry out an event. I told my friend no, since it’s not offensive to anyone. But I’m sort of stuck in the hardcore annoying atheist role, regardless of how I feel. I can’t change how I acted, and now that I’m unsure what I’m thinking about the whole God issue I can’t act the same way. That seems even more hypocritical than potentially changing my mind about God.
I’m sorry, and I really hope I’m not annoying my sort of babbling here, but people here seem nice, and listen (and recommend books! yay books!).
 
Pi314 said:
I’ve been trying to pray, but I feel like I’m talking to myself. But from what I’ve been reading, that seems to be the case with lots and lots of people at first.
I’m also struggling with a problem at school. I am/was (I’m not sure which tense to use now) an atheist, but actually one of those outspoken get-God-out-of-school atheists. Now I’m dealing with my atheist friend wanting me to talk to someone about the Christian club’s Christmas event thing. In the past I would have been all over that, not stopping them since that’s not allowing, but at least trying to/making it hard for them to carry out an event. I told my friend no, since it’s not offensive to anyone. But I’m sort of stuck in the hardcore annoying atheist role, regardless of how I feel. I can’t change how I acted, and now that I’m unsure what I’m thinking about the whole God issue I can’t act the same way. That seems even more hypocritical than potentially changing my mind about God.
I’m sorry, and I really hope I’m not annoying my sort of babbling here, but people here seem nice, and listen (and recommend books! yay books!).
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Arrgh! I had a very pithy reply, and tried to post it but then it got lost somewhere out in cyberspace. I shall just break it down to a few points:

1.) You are not a hypocrite. You are the furthest thing from it in fact, because you are so honest.
2.) Changing your mind about God is not hypocrisy. It’s just simply changing your mind.
3.) Keep praying, because God hears you even if you feel like you are talking to the wall, thin air, yourself. He honors those prayers you are making.
4.) Books: Chesterton’s Everlasting Man, Mother Veronic Namoyo’s A Memory for Wonders, and anything written by Edith Stein.

And know that I’m praying for you. I will even offer up the frustration that cyberspace has caused me today as a suffrage for your intentions! 😉
 
Pi314 said:
I’ve been trying to pray, but I feel like I’m talking to myself. But from what I’ve been reading, that seems to be the case with lots and lots of people at first.
I’m also struggling with a problem at school. I am/was (I’m not sure which tense to use now) an atheist, but actually one of those outspoken get-God-out-of-school atheists. Now I’m dealing with my atheist friend wanting me to talk to someone about the Christian club’s Christmas event thing. In the past I would have been all over that, not stopping them since that’s not allowing, but at least trying to/making it hard for them to carry out an event. I told my friend no, since it’s not offensive to anyone. But I’m sort of stuck in the hardcore annoying atheist role, regardless of how I feel. I can’t change how I acted, and now that I’m unsure what I’m thinking about the whole God issue I can’t act the same way. That seems even more hypocritical than potentially changing my mind about God.
I’m sorry, and I really hope I’m not annoying my sort of babbling here, but people here seem nice, and listen (and recommend books! yay books!).
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That is why you make a better pick to God, he tends to take the least of us and we in turn, are forgiven much, love him back all that much more, and he makes his point clear, that even the most hard core can be made examples of for the rest to follow. In Pauls case, he used to persecute the Christians, even to the point of putting them to death, and he was converted in an instant, he became radically changed with his views at that moment and became the complete opposite of what he was. You have this in common with him, and just as your dream, his vision was God’s way of intervening in a direct way in spite of yourselves, and this makes for greater testimony compared to someone that was luke warm with their beliefs, for it’s easier to grasp someone falling away from it, rather then someone totally adament about it.
 
Pi314, you should take some comfort and consolation from the simple fact that you are not blazing a new trail. That is to say, there have been countless atheists and agnostics before you who have experienced the joy of conversion. When I went through RCIA five years ago, I automatically assumed that all of the members of the Core were cradle Catholics. Much to my surprise, however, I learned that two of the Core were former atheists. Not only that, but there were several in my group (both candidates and catacumens) who were shedding their former beliefs. So, it’s alright to let it all go and invite God into your heart. He is patient and full of compassion. Continue to seek Him and continue to stay blessed.
 
Pi314 said:
I’ve been trying to pray, but I feel like I’m talking to myself. But from what I’ve been reading, that seems to be the case with lots and lots of people at first.
I’m also struggling with a problem at school. I am/was (I’m not sure which tense to use now) an atheist, but actually one of those outspoken get-God-out-of-school atheists. Now I’m dealing with my atheist friend wanting me to talk to someone about the Christian club’s Christmas event thing. In the past I would have been all over that, not stopping them since that’s not allowing, but at least trying to/making it hard for them to carry out an event. I told my friend no, since it’s not offensive to anyone. But I’m sort of stuck in the hardcore annoying atheist role, regardless of how I feel. I can’t change how I acted, and now that I’m unsure what I’m thinking about the whole God issue I can’t act the same way. That seems even more hypocritical than potentially changing my mind about God.
I’m sorry, and I really hope I’m not annoying my sort of babbling here, but people here seem nice, and listen (and recommend books! yay books!).
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changing your mind is not hypocrisy 🙂
in first year of university, I wrote an essay against the existence of God. CS Lewis used to be an outspoken atheist. So were many others.

one thing I learned from being Catholic is not to rely too much on feelings. Our feelings are often dependent on the stage we’re at. If you haven’t yet developed a close relationship with God, prayer will feel a little fake. (or a lot.) People who are really close to God (like the Saints) experience prayer differently. But even they at times do not feel His presence, and He allows this to help us not be so dependent on feelings. Faith is more about our choices, and actions.

God bless
 
Yeah, someone suggested that blog and I’ve been reading it. I really like it 🙂
 
Monica4316 said:
changing your mind is not hypocrisy 🙂
in first year of university, I wrote an essay against the existence of God. CS Lewis used to be an outspoken atheist. So were many others.

one thing I learned from being Catholic is not to rely too much on feelings. Our feelings are often dependent on the stage we’re at. If you haven’t yet developed a close relationship with God, prayer will feel a little fake. (or a lot.) People who are really close to God (like the Saints) experience prayer differently. But even they at times do not feel His presence, and He allows this to help us not be so dependent on feelings. Faith is more about our choices, and actions.

God bless
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Good post. 🙂 Coming to the understanding that faith and love of God, and closeness to God, are not about feelings, has been one of the most important aspects of my spiritual life up to now. I admit I’m still working on getting that concept firmly fixed in my mind, but I’ve made progress: a couple years ago I honestly thought that if I wasn’t floating around in a state of spiritual bliss, I was doing something wrong. :rolleyes: Thank God I got past that!

Personally, though, when I started praying, it never felt fake. I suppose that when I began to pray, I already knew there was a God, who had initiated my prayer by making His presence known to me. Not that prayer is always easy. It’s not!
 
As a previous poster mentioned, your case is highly reminiscent of St. Paul’s, who went from persecuting Christians to becoming the greatest Christian missionary in history…

There’s no shame in changing your views. Easier said than done, but a quote I once heard might be helpful: “A wise man changes his mind; a fool, never.” As you learn about something, it’s natural and even good to change your mind about it. Far better to change your mind and risk ridicule from your atheist friends than to stubbornly refuse to see the truth.

I’ve also been reading the blog Conversion Diary, and the writer, Jennifer, says that when she was an atheist, she considered herself open-minded, but she was really only open-minded about anything but religion. If this describes your friends, it might help to see that the problem is on their end, not on yours.

God bless you in your journey!
 
I’m going to go to church Sunday. I found one pretty close by, so I’m going to go. I talked to my mom since I’ll need a ride (I can’t drive) and she said she wouldn’t mind going with me, so that works.
Next week is finals, then break. Over break I’ll take a bunch of books out and get reading, I’ve gotten plenty of great suggestions.
 
Pi314 said:
I’m going to go to church Sunday. I found one pretty close by, so I’m going to go. I talked to my mom since I’ll need a ride (I can’t drive) and she said she wouldn’t mind going with me, so that works.
Next week is finals, then break. Over break I’ll take a bunch of books out and get reading, I’ve gotten plenty of great suggestions.
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Wonderful! And He’ll be there, too. God Bless, and have a good break. Makes me not miss college one bit, to tell the truth. 😉 Breaks so short, classes so long, and so little money…I was a biology major for most of it, and enjoyed the learning, just didn’t like the starving part of it quite so much.

I will remember you Sunday at Divine Liturgy. God be with you.
 
Pi314 said:
I’m going to go to church Sunday. I found one pretty close by, so I’m going to go. I talked to my mom since I’ll need a ride (I can’t drive) and she said she wouldn’t mind going with me, so that works.
Next week is finals, then break. Over break I’ll take a bunch of books out and get reading, I’ve gotten plenty of great suggestions.
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Are you going to a Catholic church? That’s wonderful!
 
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