I'm a protestant Christian....ask me anything!

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For example, you can view an electron either as a “particle” or as a “wave.” Matter and form, however, are two different substantial principles in any material substance.
What do you mean different substantial principles? Because if we’re measuring an electron, it’s still an electron no matter if it’s a particle or a wave. The substance remsins the same. Im not disagreeing but i would like it expounded upon.
I still find the evidences inadequate to support the evolutionary hypothesis on a macro level
I would agree with that completely and im not a neo darwinist. I believe more in speciation than common decent. However I define myself as a thestic evolutionist because i do find speciation and micro-evolution convining.
 
Anyway, as the teacher was going through the time line he stated that the dinosaur was before Adam and Eve… what do you think? and if so when do you believe evolution started?
To be honest, I’m not sure. Most of my studies are geared towards New Testament/early Christian history. By what i know, Genesis seems to be allegorical in nature, so I’m not sure if the days were meant as literal days. Personally, i ascribe to the idea of an old earth so i would agree with the teacher in that sense. However as I stated, I’m not well versed enough to have a strong opinion.
 
well, just saying that Jesus chose twelve men to be apostles with one message of salvation. That seems like a single theocracy of bishops, to me (Catholic).

Paul was writing letters to various groups of followers to keep them in line, basically, even if he was not physically present. Again, it sounds like a single theocracy of bishops, a spiritual and virtual ecclesia, i.e. assembly or church.

No?
 
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I didn’t intend to ask about the mechanics of achieving unity, but rather was an eventual unity should look like: both in doctrine and church structure?
I think i got distracted and forgot to answer your questions so my apologies on that! I could give you my opinion, for what little it’s worth. I believe unity in doctrine should look like the Nicene Creed. As far as structure, i think it should have a synodical system where churches attempt to solve issues at a local level
 
Again, it sounds like a single theocracy of bishops, a spiritual and virtual ecclesia, i.e. assembly or church.
I don’t disagree that there may have been a theocratic hierarchy. However, it seemed as if Paul was invested in these churches and it seems as if Peter didn’t have to much to say to the churches outside of the Counsel of Jerusalem .
 
What do you mean different substantial principles?
A principle is that from which a thing in any way proceeds. For example, the principles of any science are the definitions, axioms and postulates from which the entire science is built. Those are principles as regards knowledge. Substantial principles, on the other hand, are principles as regards reality, and they refer to those things from which substances are derived or made up.

Aristotle distinguished two natural principles that enter into the constitution of every mobile or material substance: prime matter and substantial form.

To explain this I must first bring up his classic distinction between a potential being (otherwise known as a “being–in–potency”) and an actual being (or a “being–in–act”). A being is in potency, or is a potential being, inasmuch as it has the capacity to become or to be something; a being is in act, or is an actual being, inasmuch as it already is what it is. Putting it another way, a being is actually what it is; potentially, it is what it may become. For example, before paper burns into ashes, it is actually paper, but potentially it is ash.

Now “form” is the principle by which a substance is what it actually is; “matter” is the principle by which a substance is potentially what it may become. Every material substance is a composite of matter and form because every material substance actually exists as a determinate kind of being (due to its form), but it potentially exists as a different kind of being (due to its matter). Note that “matter” and “form” are intrinsic principles that constitute a substance. They are not like the white paint on a piece of wood that is extrinsic to the substance of the wood itself. They are intrinsic to the substance and are called substantial principles because together they constitute a material substance, although each one is not a complete substance in itself.

It should be evident now that the “matter” of the philosopher is not the same thing as the “matter” of the physicist. The “matter” of the philosopher is not something you can handle in the laboratory. No, it is not a reality that you can perceive by your senses, but a reality that is understood (by the mind). It is the latent potency in every material substance that enables it to change into other kinds of substances.

The “matter” of the philosopher cannot exist apart from form. There is no such thing as pure matter existing in the world without form. For, nothing in the world exists indeterminately, without any formal determinations. This is why Aristotle found it necessary to call it prime matter, to distinguish it from the material substance itself of which it is a part. Aristotle calls the fully constituted material substance “secondary matter.” The potency in a piece of wood is prime matter; the wood itself is secondary matter. Prime matter exists in the world, but it never exists alone without form. It only exists in secondary matter.

To be continued in my next post below.
 
Continued from above.

Now you see why matter and form cannot be regarded simply as different aspects or views of a substance. They are altogether two different substantial principles that make up or constitute a material substance. Prime matter is latent potency, an indeterminate, but determinable principle of material substance. Form is the actualizing or determining principle that specifies substance to be a particular kind of material being.
I believe more in speciation than common decent.
Now it is your turn to explain something. What do you mean by speciation, and why do you find evolution convincing on account of it?
 
What do you mean by speciation, and why do you find evolution convincing on account of it?
By speciation i mean the process by which populations evolve into distinct new species through small changes over a length of time. The reason why i find it convincing is because we have repeatable proven models to show that it can occur and in some instances we’ve observed it.

I plan to respond to your explanation but it’ll have to wait until I’m off work haha
 
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He was telling the story of creation, not only to show the true origin of the world, but to give us a pattern of how we should live. He said that the world was made in 6 days and on the 7th day he rested because He wanted us to sanctify the Sabbath
Modern scripture study tells us that the Old Testament, and Genesis itself, had multiple authors, and was written [actually put on paper after having been a part of oral tradition] over several centuries. The first Creation story is believed to have been written three centuries after the second Creation story. The Sabbath was already established, and this story retrospectively confirmed it.

This is one terrific thread…thank you for starting it, and thanks to the participants.
 
This is very helpful in understanding why we understand Matthew 16 the way we do. Great hour long lecture you could listen to while exercising or whatever it is you enjoy doing:

 
The title pretty much says it all, ask me anything…

So have at it and let’s have a great discussion:)
Thanks for the offer! Where do you stand when it comes to free will versus predestination? There are lots of protestants in both camps. Thanks in advance!
 
Now you see why matter and form cannot be regarded simply as different aspects or views of a substance. They are altogether two different substantial principles that make up or constitute a material substance. Prime matter is latent potency, an indeterminate, but determinable principle of material substance. Form is the actualizing or determining principle that specifies substance to be a particular kind of material being.
Actually that’s a great explanation, i think i totally agree with where you’re coming from. Thanks for that!
 
Modern scripture study tells us that the Old Testament, and Genesis itself, had multiple authors, and was written [actually put on paper after having been a part of oral tradition] over several centuries.
I’ve actually heard this a lot here recently. Though the Pentateuch seems to be written anonymously there several references in other parts of the Old Testament and New Testament that claim Moses wrote it alone. Personally I’ve never found the “JEPD documentary hypothesis” convincing.
This is one terrific thread…thank you for starting it, and thanks to the participants.
I agree! This has been very enlightening and I hope it doesn’t end soon!
 
This is very helpful in understanding why we understand Matthew 16 the way we do. Great hour long lecture you could listen to while exercising or whatever it is you enjoy doing:
I’ll definitely check it thanks!!
 
Where do you stand when it comes to free will versus predestination? There are lots of protestants in both camps.
Ah yes, this debate has been raging ever since the staunch rise in reformed theology. I’ve went back and forth on it. There’s so much to consider, I believe in the absolute sovereignty of God however when we consider this life, it was made to bring glory to the Father. I believe that glory can only be fully realized with human free will. When we see all the horrible things people do because of the fall, then we see God’s will done despite our own decisions, I believe that’s where His glory to shown.
 
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Ah yes, this debate has been raging ever since the staunch rise in reformed theology. I’ve went back and forth on it. There’s so much to consider, I believe in the absolute sovereignty of God however when we consider this life, it was made to bring glory to the Father. I believe that glory can only be fully realized with human free will. When we see all the horrible things people do because of the fall, then we see God’s will done despite our own decisions, I believe that’s where His glory to shown.
I appreciate your response. Take care and God bless.
 
By speciation i mean the process by which populations evolve into distinct new species through small changes over a length of time. The reason why i find it convincing is because we have repeatable proven models to show that it can occur and in some instances we’ve observed it.
Using your definition, then yes, speciation happens in nature and has been observed. Also, if the meaning of evolution is restricted to any change in the heritable characteristics of an interbreeding population over time, then speciation could be used as evidence for evolution. But that is not the meaning of evolution as used in the theory of evolution. The theory of evolution is speaking of the descent of all organisms from a simple, common ancestor. That is where speciation is not enough. To serve as evidence for the theory of evolution, it is not enough to show that a new species emerged from a parent species. We need to show evidence that a more complex organism emerged from the parent species. Otherwise, we will not be able to show how a one-celled organism gave rise to the vastly more complex organisms we see in the world today.

Unfortunately, some of the evidences offered for the theory of evolution only show new species with longer limbs, greater resistance to toxic substances, etc. Actually, these often result from a loss, rather than increase, of genetic information. I would rather see new species that develop new body parts or organs that were absent from the parent species. That would really prove evolution for me. But to show a new species that has three eyes when the parent species already has two eyes, or a new species with a new pair of wings when the parent species already has wings, then that does not prove anything to me because the genetic instruction for building the eye or the wings is already there. I would rather see evidence of new genetic information being added to the gene pool.
Modern scripture study tells us that the Old Testament, and Genesis itself, had multiple authors, and was written [actually put on paper after having been a part of oral tradition] over several centuries.
Yes, there were others who edited the Pentateuch and added complementary materials to it. However, it is still true that Moses remains as the original human source of these documents, as the Pentateuch itself states (Ex 17:14; 24:4–7; 34:27; Lev 6:8-9; Num 33:2; Deut 31:9, 22, 24). Other books of the Old Testament, the gospels, and the letters of St. Paul also affirm Moses as the original author of the Pentateuch.
This is one terrific thread…thank you for starting it, and thanks to the participants.
Seekingthetruth started this great thread. To him belongs the credit.
 
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Yes, there were others who edited the Pentateuch and added complementary materials to it.
Genesis 1 and 2 fit this category…they were written [put on paper] several hundred years after the death of Moses.
 
Do you think that the Bible Canon of 66 books is correct? If you do, what do you base that on? I’m sorry if the question was already asked, I just saw this , so I haven’t gone through all of it yet
 
we will not be able to show how a one-celled organism gave rise to the vastly more complex organisms we see in the world today.
Now you’re getting into origin of life issues, that goes beyond the scope of evolution. Evolution can account for the diversity of complex organisms we see today, which is what i accept.
The theory of evolution is speaking of the descent of all organisms from a simple, common ancestor
That is the most common theroy of evolution used today but that’s not the only one.
some of the evidences offered for the theory of evolution only show new species with longer limbs, greater resistance to toxic substances, etc.
Now take those small changes and have them constantly be molded over thousands of years and you may see some substantial changes to the original parent species.
To him belongs the credit.
I don’t deserve any credit, it is everyone participating thats providing the content. I’m just answering questions haha
 
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