I'm a Traditionalist but my family isn't: causing hurt

[DisorientingSneeze]

I already chimed in further up thread, but I’ll rephrase and add.

1. Keep going with your parents and be grateful you have a practicing Catholic family who takes you to mass and confession.
2. Ask to go to a traditional parish on your birthday. Who would say no to that?
3. Focus on developing traditional devotions and habits as suggested by the (name removed by moderator)
4. Stay away from internet material that actively builds your discontent with the OF. The material is unlikely to help you grow in holiness, only in agitation.

 

[Peeps]

how can we be universal and one if we all have different languages.

We are universal because the Holy Spirit makes us one in Christ. It has nothing to do with what language we speak in the Holy Mass.

I think you’re confusing “unison” with “unity.”

 

[DerKreuzritter]

Yes you are right. But with my 1962 Daily Roman Missal if the TLM was celebrated globally, I can go anywhere in the World and know what is going on and what is being said in the mass. I’m not against the mass in vernacular, I am just Saying that the vernacular can possibly cause language barriers in the church.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

I’ve been to Masses in various parts of the world and places where I don’t speak the language; it’s not an issue. I still know what’s going on and can pray along just as effectively.

 

[Peeps]

I’m not against the mass in vernacular, I am just Saying that the vernacular can possibly cause language barriers in the church.

But Latin would create a language barrier in pretty much every country in the world.

I agree with Cor_ad_Cor that we can generally know where we are in the OF Mass by watching the people and the pastor. I’m guessing that in some parts of the world, the OF Mass includes dancing or some other national tradition that has the OK of the territorial authority, and this might be confusing to those who aren’t native to that country. but OTOH, there’s a good chance that if you are visiting this Mass, you have a friend with you who explained it all in advance.

Or…you do what I and my husband did when we first started attending the Catholic parish down the street from us. We were Evangelical Protestants for the first 47 years of our lives, and even though the Mass we were attending was OF, and utilized contemporary and traditional hymns (we knew the traditional hymns but had never heard any of the contemporary hymns) and no chant or Latin or incense–we still had NO CLUE what was going on! Really! Some Catholics call the OF Mass “too Protestant,” but it sure wasn’t any Protestantism we had ever been part of!

Other than those traditional hymns, the only parts of the OF Mass liturgy that we were familiar with was the Bible readings and the Lord’s Prayer. The rest of it might as well have been Latin to us!

So…we made an appointment with one of the priests (the most traditional priest in the parish) and asked him to explain the Mass to us, and he did a magnificent job of it and to this day, we’re grateful to him.

And that’s what we would do if we visited another country and heard Mass in a different language with some local traditions and hymns–we would ask, in advance if possible, or later. But we would ask–we would not want to be confused.

 

[otjm]

It is not a matter of conscience, as going to the OF is not a moral evil; and not going to the EF is not a moral evil.

 

[otjm]

No, unison and unity are more closely aligned; I think what you mean is confusing unison - or unity - with uniformity.

 

[otjm]

The same way we are a universal church, with the number of Eastern Rite Churches all in unity with Rome - and all of them having a different set of rubrics as well as languages.

Universal does not mean uniform. We all follow Christ; we all have the Eucharist (although they may use leavened bread in the Consecration); we all receive the Eucharist (although some receive in the hand, some receive the Host on the tongue, and some receive both the leavened Host and the Blood from a spoon). That is a Universal Church; it is not the Roman Catholic Church; it is the Catholic Church, with the largest group being Roman, and some being Ruthenian Rite Byzantine, and some Maronite, and etc. through the rest of them. all are Catholic; none are more CAtholic than another one.

 

[DrewM]

I know exactly what you Are desiring. I know it can be difficult wanting to go to a particular mass, when your family wants to go to Another. But let me ask you this question, is it possible at your parish to turn lemons into lemonade? Believe me, I know that there are parishes out there that could definitely use some reform of the Novus ordo liturgy, that has definitely been abused since the 60s. I’m very sympathetic to the traditional Latin mass movement, but you’ll find me in the camp of the reform of the reform. Is it possible for you to ask your priest for a set of kneelers? Kneelers are not as pretty as an altar rail, but they can certainly serve the purpose of kneeling before the blessed sacrament before receiving on the tongue. Maybe you can even drop hints about implementing some Gregorian chant during the liturgy. Try to chat it up with your peers at your parish and talk about how Pope Saint John Paul II and Vatican II call for more use of Gregorian chant and Latin in the liturgy along with the vernacular. In other words, maybe you can try to “work behind the scenes“ to bring about real reform in your parish. Always try to bring reform where you are. But reform cannot be just about liturgy, it also has to be about participating in pro-life events, encouraging real catechesis, etc. Just try to do the little bit that you can do to bring reform in your parish. If none of these things are possible, then your parish is probably deadwood; and when you’re old enough and can drive, get the heck out of Dodge city.

 

[DerKreuzritter]

Yes I know I there is more than one Church, I do enjoy Divine Liturgy. On my Fathers side a majority of them are Byzantine. My wording was not the greatest, but what I was trying to say is that the Latin Church without the common language of Latin divides us and can cause confusion. It would be easier if the Mass was was said in Latin and one would be able to go anywhere in the world and understand what is being said.

 

[DerKreuzritter]

You’re right my bad on the wording. I fixed it.

 

[poche]

Is that because you are too young for a drivers license or is there some other reason?

 

[Phemie]

Yes you are right. But with my 1962 Daily Roman Missal if the TLM was celebrated globally, I can go anywhere in the World and know what is going on and what is being said in the mass. I’m not against the mass in vernacular, I am just Saying that the vernacular can possibly cause language barriers in the church.

While the Latin Rite is certainly the most widely spread Rite there were always those that used the vernacular and not the 1962 Missal.

 

[LawyersGunsAndMoney]

That’s hard to do. Its hard to follow my conscience and my parents at the same time.

You’re confusing your conscience with your aesthetic preferences. The fact that you like the Latin mass more does not make attending it over the ordinary form a moral requirement.

 

[Peeps]

No, unison and unity are more closely aligned; I think what you mean is confusing unison - or unity - with uniformity.

Yes, thanks!

 

[Peeps]

It would be easier if the Mass was was said in Latin and one would be able to go anywhere in the world and understand what is being said.

But you really don’t understand what’s going on. You may have memorized the Latin (although there is an awful lot of it at the Latin Mass), and you may have studied what it means, but do you really know Latin well enough to understand it?

Perhaps you are a scholar. Yes, we need scholars. At least two of the students in my daughters’ alma mater high school went on to earn Ph.D.s in “Classical Studies” which including an intensive study of Greek and Latin. (Their parents are doctors, so they had the money to pay for the many years of schooling and the travel overseas required.)

Also, I have a friend who teaches in a classical Catholic school (Latin Mass, Latin required at all grades, etc.), and she truly KNOWS Latin. She attended one of the elite Ivy League colleges in the U.S. and is a brilliant woman.

Are you in that camp of learned Latin scholars?

Most of us aren’t going to travel that path and “learn Latin.” So we don’t really “understand” Latin, but have memorized the translation and recognize by the postures and gestures of the priest and the altar boys what is happening during a Latin Mass.

And it’s fine if you prefer to attend a Latin Mass. I’m not saying that they should go away. But to claim that a common language unifies the Church–no, all it does is make the Masses identical–and that’s not true unity. That’s uniformity, as otjm kindly pointed out.

As I said earlier, Christian unity is a mystery that the Holy Spirit accomplishes in Christians. Right now, you and I are “one body” in Christ, even though we are not physically in the same room, and even though you might not even be a native English speaker, and even though we will probably never meet on this earth–but we are still part of the One Body of Jesus! THAT’S unity!

 

[otjm]

Having grown up when Latin was the only language one hear in the Mass, I disagree that it divides anyone. The vast majority of people did not understand (because they could not speak) Latin. Oh, they heard a phrase now and then and knew what it meant; but they did not “understand” Latin.

I happened to have attended 2 different high schools. The first taught Latin as a translated language; the second taught it as a spoken language (and was rare in that it followed a new method of teaching Latin). To say I was lost in that class doesn’t come real close to the floundering I experienced - however, I did fine in taking Homeric Greek - as a translated language. Then in college, I took 2 more years of Latin. And what I know now I could put in the proverbial thimble…

Recently someone complained that post Vatican 2, “people are divided” meaning that racially we are divided at Mass. My response was that the Mass in the vernacular makes perfectly clear what people want - they want the Mass in their native language. That is why, about 5 miles from me, there is a well-attended Mass in Vietnamese, and four Masses in Spanish, as well as four in English. There is one Mass in Latin, at 6:30 a.m., with the lowest attendance rate. And it continues at that time as it has had such a low attendance rate that it cannot and will not replace any of the other Masses.

the short of it is that the Mass in the native language is going to consistently out-draw a Mass in Latin. I am all for continuing the EF; it is a part of our heritage. But as for “dividing”, I completely disagree. People want the ultimate prayer form - the Mass - in their native language, and the attendance rates continue to show that.

I have attended Mass in Latin, English, Spanish, Vietnamese, one of the Slavic languages, and one in a combination of Aramaic and Arabic. And in the last three languages, the rubrics were clearly different, but I had at least a clue as to where we were in the Mass, just as I have had a clue where we were in any of the other languages I don’t speak. But participation in my own language is significantly different than in another.

 

[Sean]

At least you have a mass to go to

 

[holy_trident_tine]

I feel what you feel friend. I’m on the same boat as you.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

So I have for the last few months fallen in love with the Traditional Latin Mass and Traditionalist Catholicism in a family that is very suspicious/disliking of Traditionalism

There is nothing wrong with this. Many youth are falling in love with Traditional Catholicism. You are not alone. It hard for some of the older generations to understand.

It sounds like you are still under their authority. I would pray and do your best to witness to them in a loving and non-judgemental way but be obedient.

Continue to study the traditions of the Church. God is leading many youth today to bring back a lot of lost traditions. It might be slow growing but it is growing.