I'm against church shopping

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Cat said:
I think we live in dangerous times–dangerous for our souls, that is.

Has it hit you yet? Gay marriage is now legal. My God.

Fifty years ago this would have been unthinkable. Now it’s those of us who are against this law that are “unthinkable.” I’m sure eventually we’ll be locked away as “mentally ill” because we are opposed to gay marriage.

Perhaps in the past we could all be assured that our faith would stand up for an entire lifetime, but now, we are constantly attacked spiritually. Things have changed so much in 50 years. Our kids used to be safe at church or in the home of any Christian or Jew. Now, they face things that I didn’t even know existed until I was almost 18!

So IMO, as long as the Church has declared it OK, we may as well shop around for a parish that will best equip us against these attacks. We need to make it to heaven and use every weapon in our arsenal to ward off Satan and his demons. If going to Parish A is going to help you get there, then for heaven’s sake (literally!) go to Parish A! The Church says it, I believe it, that settles it! (A phrase borrowed and adapted from evangelical Protestantism!)
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water said:
👍
For nearly a year, I attended 2 different parishes and observed which one should I be a member of. I finally picked one and the parish has helped me so much with my spirituality. That is SaintWilliams.org
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Beautiful parish, Water! Thanks for posting the link. I downloaded the video on the Church dedication. Real altar boys, a lot of women wearing veils & WHAT a CHOIR!!! 👍

I lived a short time in Austin in early 70’s, but haven’t been in the area for over 30 years, it sure has grown.

Thanks again.
God bless!
 
How ironic. At CAF I’m called “modernist” and “liberal” among other things.

Yet, away from here, I’m called “narrow minded”, “too old fashioned”, etc…

I got in a rather heated discussion a few nights ago, when the news was blatting about the same-sex marriages. I find it repugnant. Therefore, I am narrow-minded and old fashioned.

You’re right, we live in scary times.

Of course, I also struggle with Churches that have dedicated “Spanish” Masses too…not out of bigotry, but out of spending half of my life hearing that “seperate but equal” was wrong.

Go figure. 🤷
 
Well! The US Bishops do have authority over the pope!

If you don’t believe me, just ask my pastor!!!:mad:
 
brotherhrolf said:
Church shopping or is one called to a church?

Quite different scenario in 1983. I had a co-worker who was not even Catholic and was singing in our cathedral choir. She knew I was Catholic and she knew I sang and she invited me to join the cathedral choir which I did.

In 1984 # 2 son came along and as we no longer were attending our local geographic parish, DW and I said “let’s join the cathedral parish”. Easier said than done back then. To do such I (as head of the household) had to be interviewed by the local parish priest - who happened to be from Ireland. My Irish family has been here in Louisiana since the 1830s (before the famine) and I said “no sweat”.

Wrong. Sorry Father I don’t want to sing Glory and Praise. I dearly love the associate pastor (who is my age and knows what it means to grow up in New Orleans) but I don’t like his running up and down the aisles during Mass. I grew up as an Irish American Catholic with a devotion to now Blessed Fr. Seelos and the Masses at the Cathedral felt like Mass. I left the interview with Fr. feeling “cast out”.

The next week I recieved a letter releasing me from the local parish with the caveat that "if I died, he (the pastor) would not respond. Nor could we be buried in DW’s ancestral parish cemetary…bell, book, and candle.

I gave said letter to the cathedral rector who read it, turned red in the face, and said “I’ll take care of it”.

We’ve never looked back. Was this parish shopping or was this an act of the Holy Spirit? Things have loosened up remarkably since 1983. I don’t live in that parish. We have moved 25 miles away and no, I am not going to go to our local geographic parish. We’ve spent the last 25 years as members of the cathedral parish and we drive 25 miles one way.

I’m for parish shopping. All of us need to find a parish that meets our spiritual needs. My spiritual needs are not met with the abundant abuses I have experienced in my local geographic parish.
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And was mine “church shopping” or any of the other 1500 + families that joined my cathedral parish and took this abandoned downtown parish (e.g. know how many people live in downtown Baton Rouge?) and made it into the vibrant community it is today. The sword cuts both ways. This is not 1960 with all of us on the same page. We are not on the same page today.

The freedom to choose a church parish has resulted in the growth of my parish. “Give them a reverent NO and they will come”. And, boy, have they!
 
redrosetea said:
I had one of the meanest priests I have ever seen…no way would I set through that…I shopped, it’s better than losing your faith
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True, if one feels they will lose the faith over a another’s behavior in Mass wether it be priest or other, it is best to understand now that there will come a time no matter how much you love your local parish things happen that will hurt you. I have understood that every parish, job, etc. is a place were prayer and discernment are to be examined and never to judge anyone decision to change either.

Its leaving the parish not addressing the issue to our Church to those who have authority roles… via phone internet letter verbal …etc. without doing something small or big to change the problems…That is why it is so awsome to have a Church that has authority. Keep in mind Mass is NOT the subject at hand. Mass anywhere is Jesus Himself… Remember many have to hide underground to have Mass… Lets together make a difference by addressing the issues one person at a time taking a step. If we keep silent and change parishes without takings steps of action, that will not solve any bad behavior…
 
Cat said:
If I lived in a diocese where the bishop allowed widespread abuse, I would seriously consider moving. With gas over $4.00/gal, and predictions of prices as high as $7.00 to $10.00/gal, you may eventually have to choose between attending the Mass of your choice and paying for the material necessities of life.
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Or you can stay home and pray.
Can. 1248 §1 The obligation of assisting at Mass is satisfied wherever Mass is celebrated in a catholic rite either on a holyday itself or on the evening of the previous day.
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§2 If it is impossible to assist at a eucharistic celebration, either because no sacred minister is available or for some other grave reason, the faithful are strongly recommended to take part in a liturgy of the Word, if there be such in the parish church or some other sacred place, which is celebrated in accordance with the provisions laid down by the diocesan Bishop; or to spend an appropriate time in prayer, whether personally or as a family or, as occasion presents, in a group of families.
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ethelzguy said:
So, we’re back to the “if I can’t find a Mass that suits me, I’ll just stay home?”

mmmmmmm…:hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:

“I’d walk a mile for a Camel…”
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think ProVobis was talking about “not finding a Mass that suits me.”

ProVobis was referencing my post in which I stated that it is possible that gas to travel to a liturgically correct and reverent Mass might get too expensive for an average family. Apparently if there’s a grave reason to stay home, the Church allows this. That’s good to know.

What I’m wondering is, is it permissible to stay home if there IS a Mass that is not “reverent” or “liturgically correct,” but is still valid and licit nearby? I think (??) that the family would be obligated to attend this less-than-perfect Mass, and that they could not claim this as a “grave reason” to stay home, even if the irreverent Mass irks them to high heaven and sets their teeth on edge.

Am I right?

To me, if the bishop has not shut down a parish and kicked out the priest, then the Mass is OK to attend, even if it’s not our personal preference and even if we think it’s full of abuses and liberalism. What the Bishop has declared acceptable we must accept as acceptable–right?

And if gas prices continue to rise, Catholics may be forced to give up their personal preferences and attend a less-than-perfect Mass. Uh, oh!

Maybe we’ll start seeing the Catholic Mass busses making the rounds to pick up the faithful (who chip in for the gas), just like we see the Baptist busses cruising the neighborhoods to pick up people!
 
Cat said:
I think that as long as the Masses are not all alike, then the Church is wise to allow people to attend the parish of their choice to fulfill their obligation. If all the Masses were alike, then it really wouldn’t matter which parish we attend. Yes, we might have more friends at a certain parish, but we are not supposed to be attending Mass just to be with our friends, are we?
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They are alike in the most important way…
  1. I fell in love with the fact that I can walk into any Catholic Church in the world and the same readings are being read across the world. So if I am in China, or across town I know my fellow Catholics in the Church are hearing the same scripture being read.
  2. Knowing that Jesus is in the Sacrament, “not just a symbol” in every Catholic Church across the world. So I and my fellow christians who also understand this get fed, real food. real drink.
  3. Every Catholic Church remembers to mention our loved ones who passed. And have beautiful reminders like statues, paintings and traditions, signs of the cross. We worship only God, the Father Son and Holy Spirit and remember always His Mom and the rest of the family! Amen.
I would be real sad if you walked into my home and ignored my Mom and family and didn’t bother to look at my pictures. Asked my to take down my memories things that help me remember…

boy, I respond to those who don’t understand. " I don’t look at you funny when you are kneeling next to your bed. Why is that so normal.

“let us all do our part to encourage eachother for deeper understanding”
 
Cat said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think ProVobis was talking about “not finding a Mass that suits me.”

ProVobis was referencing my post in which I stated that it is possible that gas to travel to a liturgically correct and reverent Mass might get too expensive for an average family. Apparently if there’s a grave reason to stay home, the Church allows this. That’s good to know.

What I’m wondering is, is it permissible to stay home if there IS a Mass that is not “reverent” or “liturgically correct,” but is still valid and licit nearby? I think (??) that the family would be obligated to attend this less-than-perfect Mass, and that they could not claim this as a “grave reason” to stay home, even if the irreverent Mass irks them to high heaven and sets their teeth on edge.

Am I right?

To me, if the bishop has not shut down a parish and kicked out the priest, then the Mass is OK to attend, even if it’s not our personal preference and even if we think it’s full of abuses and liberalism. What the Bishop has declared acceptable we must accept as acceptable–right?

And if gas prices continue to rise, Catholics may be forced to give up their personal preferences and attend a less-than-perfect Mass. Uh, oh!

Maybe we’ll start seeing the Catholic Mass busses making the rounds to pick up the faithful (who chip in for the gas), just like we see the Baptist busses cruising the neighborhoods to pick up people!
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I’m wondering where you live that travel expenses to the nearest available Sunday Mass might be prohibitive?
 
Cat said:
I think (??) that the family would be obligated to attend this less-than-perfect Mass, and that they could not claim this as a “grave reason” to stay home, even if the irreverent Mass irks them to high heaven and sets their teeth on edge.

Am I right?
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We’re spot on, here…👍
 
I didn’t move out of my own town to attend mass…There are 4 Catholic churches here…The one I attend is about the same distance from me as the one I left

I would have never stayed in that Parrish under any circumstances as long as that mean priest was here…
 
redrosetea said:
I didn’t move out of my own town to attend mass…There are 4 Catholic churches here…The one I attend is about the same distance from me as the one I left

I would have never stayed in that Parrish under any circumstances as long as that mean priest was here…
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wow, under any circumstances?

that breaks my heart. For you and the mean priest.

under any circumstances we are so blessed to even be able to have a Mass. And grateful we have choices of parishes, No matter what parish… Jesus is there. not just a symbol.

… when knowing the truth about the Eucharist, and there was only one parish to offer the Holy communion, only can we hope and pray not to take it for granted as I fail so many times.

I understand the pain. I just know healing the spirit inside is through the Eucharist. The parishes may differ but the Eucharist is the True and the same Universal. Thank God you have another one to attend.

and this is written with only the best intention…
 
Cat said:
To me, if the bishop has not shut down a parish and kicked out the priest, then the Mass is OK to attend, even if it’s not our personal preference and even if we think it’s full of abuses and liberalism. What the Bishop has declared acceptable we must accept as acceptable–right?
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There is no black and white answer on this. For example, Fr. Phleger was recently suspended by Cardinal George for making activist political statements from the pulpit. His parishioners were overwhelming in favor of having him restored so that he could continue his activities so the Cardinal appeared to cave in. He is back preaching but I could understand if one were to choose another parish to attend. Or stay home and pray if there were enough Fr. Phlegers around. 🙂
 
Cat said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think ProVobis was talking about “not finding a Mass that suits me.”

ProVobis was referencing my post in which I stated that it is possible that gas to travel to a liturgically correct and reverent Mass might get too expensive for an average family. Apparently if there’s a grave reason to stay home, the Church allows this. That’s good to know.

What I’m wondering is, is it permissible to stay home if there IS a Mass that is not “reverent” or “liturgically correct,” but is still valid and licit nearby? I think (??) that the family would be obligated to attend this less-than-perfect Mass, and that they could not claim this as a “grave reason” to stay home, even if the irreverent Mass irks them to high heaven and sets their teeth on edge.

Am I right?

To me, if the bishop has not shut down a parish and kicked out the priest, then the Mass is OK to attend, even if it’s not our personal preference and even if we think it’s full of abuses and liberalism. What the Bishop has declared acceptable we must accept as acceptable–right?

And if gas prices continue to rise, Catholics may be forced to give up their personal preferences and attend a less-than-perfect Mass. Uh, oh!

Maybe we’ll start seeing the Catholic Mass busses making the rounds to pick up the faithful (who chip in for the gas), just like we see the Baptist busses cruising the neighborhoods to pick up people!
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If there is too much liturgical abuse, that is a good enough reason for changing parishes. The bishop cannot keep tabs on all the parishes in the Diocese.
 
Jimsdun said:
If there is too much liturgical abuse, that is a good enough reason for changing parishes. The bishop cannot keep tabs on all the parishes in the Diocese.
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But he has people like us to report to him about what’s going on. 🙂
 
ethelzguy said:
Huh? 🤷
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Yes. Bishops do not keep spy cameras to check on how each priest says the Mass. Nor does he have a spy network to report back to him. True, there are those who report an abuse when they see it and feel so inclined. But this type of reporting requires a multiple responses from unrelated people to build a picture of legitimate abuse and at the same time be just in dealing with the priest. A lone voice is too easily dismissed as a dissatisfied parishoner with an axe to grind.
 
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