I'm against church shopping

[valient_Lucy]

Of course, I also struggle with Churches that have dedicated “Spanish” Masses too…not out of bigotry, but out of spending half of my life hearing that “seperate but equal” was wrong.

Go figure.

I lived in Korea for a year, and whenever I was in Seoul, I would always attend a Mass in English. It was nice to be able to understand the homily.

On the other hand though, I attended Mass in Korean almost every Sunday (there was no English speaking Mass where I was) and it that is one of my fondest memories of Korea.

So I could see both ways. On the one hand, I would have understood the homilies if the priest had spoken English, but on the other hand, I would have missed out on wonderful memories.

 

[EasterJoy]

A lone voice is too easily dismissed as a dissatisfied parishoner with an axe to grind.

You think such a parishioner is rare? Oh, how I wish this were so. I know bishops do.

 

[ethelzguy]

You think such a parishioner is rare? Oh, how I wish this were so. I know bishops do.

Just the opposite…there’s plenty of “onesies” from parish to parish. But, when you have lots of “onesies” that aren’t unified, the complaints are considered just that, complaints.

If a Bishop got 100 letters from the same congregation, it might be a different story. Not to imply that the Church is a democracy, but a flood of identical/similar commentary might more grab his attention, than an endless, every-week onslaught from the same three people.

Sorry for the confustion.

 

[pnewton]

You think such a parishioner is rare? Oh, how I wish this were so. I know bishops do.

Not in this forum, but in most parishes.

 

[dchet121272]

I have to respectfully disagree with the OP. As someone who travels 35 miles one way to mass…I was a shopper, but in doing so found a community of warmth, strength and reverence.

Not to mention that I am surrounded by retirement communities that have wonderful churches in them, but I am looked at as a youngster who is invading thier church when I do go. While also great churches, I don’t feel as comfortable or welcome there.

Just my two cents.

 

[theresa1967]

I have to respectfully disagree with the OP. As someone who travels 35 miles one way to mass…I was a shopper, but in doing so found a community of warmth, strength and reverence.

Not to mention that I am surrounded by retirement communities that have wonderful churches in them, but I am looked at as a youngster who is invading thier church when I do go. While also great churches, I don’t feel as comfortable or welcome there.

Just my two cents.

I understand how you feel, and some may find that they are called to be the youth and the light in those communities who deep inside want it so much! I have been told by many elderly they love young company, an we all can experience the wisdom from the elderly! they feel bad when we think they are mean, they are just hurting inside from the aches and pains of our earthly bodies and wish they could change their expressions…I say we change ours to serve them…

The Eucharist is the food and we are called to share it with all no matter what parish we attend. Pray, serve and do it with joy even if those around you are not…

 

[EasterJoy]

Not in this forum, but in most parishes.

I don’t mean that most parishes have a lot of privates who think they’re unrecognized generals.
I meant that most bishops think their diocese have quite enough.

 

[benedictgal]

I don’t mean that most parishes have a lot of privates who think they’re unrecognized generals.
I meant that most bishops think their diocese have quite enough.

Part of the problem is that there are many bishops who will ignore legitimate complaints. That is a sad fact.

Remember what Redemptionis Sacramentum notes:

[24.] It is the right of the Christian people themselves that their diocesan Bishop should take care to prevent the occurrence of abuses in ecclesiastical discipline, especially as regards the ministry of the word, the celebration of the sacraments and sacramentals, the worship of God and devotion to the Saints. 57

Unfortunately, when legitimate complaints go unacknowledged, then, the best recourse for the faithful to have is to leave the parish in question.

To those who would believe that the bishop would find such questionable practices acceptable, I would submit that even though the bishop is the chief liturgist of his diocese, he is still obligated to obey the decrees of the Holy See.

[22.] The Bishop governs the particular Church entrusted to him,47 and it is his task to regulate, to direct, to encourage, and sometimes also to reprove;48 this is a sacred task that he has received through episcopal Ordination,49 which he fulfills in order to build up his flock in truth and holiness.50 He should elucidate the inherent meaning of the rites and the liturgical texts, and nourish the spirit of the Liturgy in the Priests, Deacons and lay faithful51 so that they are all led to the active and fruitful celebration of the Eucharist,52 and in like manner he should take care to ensure that the whole body of the Church is able to grow in the same understanding, in the unity of charity, in the diocese, in the nation and in the world. 53

… To the diocesan Bishop therefore falls the right and duty of overseeing and attending to Churches and oratories in his territory in regard to liturgical matters, and this is true also of those which are founded by members of the above-mentioned institutes or under their direction, provided that the faithful are accustomed to frequent them. 56

While the faithful are subject to legitimate obedience, the bishop, too, must also obey. Thus, if there are legitimate and bona fide reports of abuse, the bishop must act on these claims and not ignore them.

 

[Jimsdun]

Just the opposite…there’s plenty of “onesies” from parish to parish. But, when you have lots of “onesies” that aren’t unified, the complaints are considered just that, complaints.

If a Bishop got 100 letters from the same congregation, it might be a different story. Not to imply that the Church is a democracy, but a flood of identical/similar commentary might more grab his attention, than an endless, every-week onslaught from the same three people.

Sorry for the confustion.

Also it is possible for an abuse to go continue unreported because the majority of parishioners either go along with the abuse, or are unaware that an abuse is taking place. And it’s also a judgment call, because what some people consider an abuse might not really be an abuse.

The best example of unreported abuse is the Life Teen mass. The dismissal was “The mass never ends” and teens gathering around the altar. When this abuse was officially eliminated,some parishes might have continued “Please don’t tell the bishop” if the parishioners are in on it as much as the priest.

Sometimes the abuse comes from the congregation itself, either through invincible ignorance or active dissidence to orthodoxy.

Best example of this is failure to kneel during Eucharistic prayer. But if the church doesn’t have kneelers, they use that as an excuse. And then the church has no plans to install kneelers, and the parishioners don’t WANT kneelers anyway. “Gasp! Then we might feel like real Catholics. I come to this parish because it looks and feels like a born again megachurch, and I want it to stay that way. If they install kneelers, I will leave Catholicism and attend ‘Hallelujah House’ nondemominational church”
That’s not much of an exaggeration

 

[THurifer2]

Is it a sin to be gay?

Careful.

No similar to it not be a sin to have diabetes. Which is another abonormality caused by the fall of man.

However not taking insulin has its consequences…similar to engaging in homosexual activity has its consequences which can be eternal consequences.

Homosexual activity is a sin…and living a homosexual lifestyle is a GRAVE sin.

 

[Teelynn]

For what it’s worth, what about the PRIESTS who “parish shop” before being assigned to a particular parish. This is commonplace in my diocese. When our Pastor left a few years ago, he had several priests come to “shop” our parish. If the Cardinal is going to allow that to go on, what kind of example is it for parishioners?

 

[cyberwolf001]

I’m wondering where you live that travel expenses to the nearest available Sunday Mass might be prohibitive?

It’s not that odd. For me Mass is 45 minutes to an hour or more away depending on traffic. In fact EVERYTHING is 45 minutes to an hour away from me… The joys of ultra rural living.

 

[ethelzguy]

For what it’s worth, what about the PRIESTS who “parish shop” before being assigned to a particular parish. This is commonplace in my diocese. When our Pastor left a few years ago, he had several priests come to “shop” our parish. If the Cardinal is going to allow that to go on, what kind of example is it for parishioners?

That’s a new one on me. But I suppose, with a shortage of priests…

 

[brotherhrolf]

Twenty-five miles for twenty-five years. I have seen my downtown cathedral parish grow and grow and grow with all those folks who are now free to join our parish where the Mass is reverent, without abuses, and, hey, the choir sings and chants in Latin.

My local geographic parish has an Adoration Chapel but the Mass bears far too many similarities to the local Protestant mega-church just down the road. If I wanted to sing “Baptist” hymns, I’d join the local Southern Baptist Church. If I was going to Mass for “fellowship”, see the local mega-church/SBC.

It boggles my mind to think that I could spend an hour before the Blessed Sacrament before Mass and then walk into church where folks older than me are loudly discussing hemorrhoid medications in the narthex.

Culture also plays a part. My local geographic parish was rural when we first moved out here 16 years ago. However, in these post-Katrina years a lot of the evacuees from New Orleans have stayed (you ought to see the massive subdivisions being built) - and many of them live out here near me and opted to join the cathedral parish precisely because the local geographic parish was “alien” to them. The diocese has bought land just north of me for the first new parish since 1976. It will be interesting to see how said parish will develop.

 

[Carjack1]

I would like to go to RCIA and be a Catholic, I was baptized, but never got anything done. With so many different personalities, there are different types of Masses. I always found the “traditional” music boring. I like contemporary music better. The message in the music should be priority. I do not like the newer architecture, but the traditional more. I don’t know latin, so I want to understand the Mass. Would I be labeld traditionalist or liberal? I didn’t know there was this type of division going on? Are there more factors to consider when I am being labeled? Just a bit confused:blush: . I think that if Catholic Church is sticking to the doctrines, (whether it be traditional and contempory) and is giving messages based on the faith, then it shouldn’t be a problem. In other words, they are using different types of methods to get the same message across. Why is that a problem? I think Church “shopping” within ones own religion to find what inspires them to be closer to Christ is what counts. I am not against church shopping.

 

[Teelynn]

That’s a new one on me. But I suppose, with a shortage of priests…

It really is rather offensive. Years ago, the Cardinal would tell a priest…“this is where you’re going for the next (5 or 6) years. They need a Pastor.” Now, unbelievable as it seems, they kind of pick and choose and even TELL the Cardinal where they want to go. We had 2 of them come in and spend the day with lunch etc…they called back to decline. We finally got one of course but (?)…whatever!

 

[Jimsdun]

My local geographic parish has an Adoration Chapel but the Mass bears far too many similarities to the local Protestant mega-church just down the road. If I wanted to sing “Baptist” hymns, I’d join the local Southern Baptist Church. If I was going to Mass for “fellowship”, see the local mega-church/SBC.

That sounds EXACTLY like my local parish.

It boggles my mind to think that I could spend an hour before the Blessed Sacrament before Mass and then walk into church where folks older than me are loudly discussing hemorrhoid medications in the narthex.

Except they are mainly people in their 20s and 30s loudly bragging about their house or their kids. And since there is no narthex, they hold these loud discussions in the nave, and even in the Adoration Chapel itself.

.That is why I have returned to my former parish, which is one of the historical parishes in Phoenix. It is worth the 15 mile drive.

If I wanted to sing a lot of contemporrary “Praise and Worship” there are several nondenom megachurches in Tempe and Mesa. And if I wanted to join a church for its friendliness, I could join one of the Mormon ward houses.

 

[ethelzguy]

Twenty-five miles for twenty-five years. I have seen my downtown cathedral parish grow and grow and grow with all those folks who are now free to join our parish where the Mass is reverent, without abuses, and, hey, the choir sings and chants in Latin.

Is this not proof of the division that is caused by church shopping?

Is your cathedral not drawing others away from their home parishes by “competing” as such, offering a specific “menu” to appeal to a specific crowd within the Church body?

 

[ethelzguy]

It really is rather offensive. Years ago, the Cardinal would tell a priest…“this is where you’re going for the next (5 or 6) years. They need a Pastor.” Now, unbelievable as it seems, they kind of pick and choose and even TELL the Cardinal where they want to go. We had 2 of them come in and spend the day with lunch etc…they called back to decline. We finally got one of course but (?)…whatever!

Maybe they declined because they sensed a parish of complainers, whiners, or rogue tradtionalists/liberals?

 

[LRThunder]

Is this not proof of the division that is caused by church shopping?

Is your cathedral not drawing others away from their home parishes by “competing” as such, offering a specific “menu” to appeal to a specific crowd within the Church body?

Or one could say those other parishes are the ones creating the division with the song selections they choose and the atmosphere they promote.