I'm an active homosexual, am I destined to hell?

[wanner47]

Actually I was refering to the part being quoted, not the whole bible.

But that part does make the distinction by pointing out that they were naturally hetrosexual who then committed homosexual acts:

“and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.”

That part there is a big clue.

There is no mention of those who were homosexual to begin with and the quoted part is very clear in that it was discussing hetrosexuals commiting homosexual acts.

No one is “homosexual to begin with.” Are you saying that some babies are homosexual? How do you know?

Of course its silly, it asks if I am mentioned in the Bible for starters and then goes on to suggest that I claimed to be infallible translator/interpreter of Scripture when I never made such a claim (in fact nobody can) and that is also mentioned in the Bible.

Exactly. So why should I, or anyone else, listen to or believe what you say about interpretation of Scripture?

Why should you trust anyones, since there isnt an infalible translation. In fact many words are ambigous so are extremly difficult to translate, unless you can ask the author what they intended.

There isn’t an infallible translation, but thankfully Christ gave us an infallible interpreter – the Catholic Church. And the Catholic Church says that the Bible says that homosexual acts are immoral.

Well for starters, I have an open mind and I dont claim to to know everything written in the bible.

You certainly seem to claim to know its authoritative teachings on homosexuality.

You will notice that I only stated that the Romans verses doesnt condemn homosexuality (and even then I agree that it does condemn some practicing homosexuality). The Corinthians verses I didnt comment on if it condems or condones homosexuality, merely that the translation that was used is inaccurate (which it is). Its ambigous and doesnt clearly say one way or another.

Actually, it’s quite clear in that homosexual acts are sins. That is what the Church teaches as well. Teen4Christ seems to deny that the Bible teaches that homosexual acts of any nature are immoral, which is why I cited those verses.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Would you like all of these responses to be the responses to your teen age child?

as a parent of a teenager, I would have no issue with the comments… especially in light of being shown church teachings on homosexuality.
If my child was shown the teachings of the church and still chose to make comments such as “I am too cute to be chaste”, “Anal/oral sex in marriage is ok”–referring to homosexual marriage.
“I am not sexual active, but I perform/receive oral sex”, “I dont need to use self control”–in regards to homosexual acts.
"Whoops…I’m not even close to chastity if that’s the case. “,
" I do”–in regards to following the teachings of Christ. etc.
Let me tell you, if my son made these comments and many others I would be wondering if he

1. really wanted help or attention.
2. does he really know what a follower of Christ is.
   3, I would question him on how can you profess to be a follower of Christ yet go against his teachings and the Churches
   and the list goes on and on.
   So to answer your question, No I would not have any problem with the comments. I would thank the people on the forum for caring about my son, his soul and his salvation!

 

[marty30]

Could you please take the time to review at least the posts mentioned though I would actually encourage you to read that party’s exchange in detail, and then explain the relationship of the questionable posts to the Catholic Church teachings? It is beyond me how you will match these actions to the teaching but I promise to read them with an open mind. Similarly If I missed a realistic question asked to me please point it out I will have no problem answer that question. I do not recall being ask much if anything on this thread at least until now

No problem, I do question at times whether chastity is overvalued by the Church which is base on Old Testament readings, however I do not oppose the Church at all on this subject.

May I ask you a couple of questions? ( ignore if you do not wish to be asked)

Would you like all of these responses to be the responses to your teen age child?

Does this at all seem an unwise way to speak to the young?

Do you think most sex acts defined as illicit are performed by heterosexuals or homosexuals?

Do you think God judges homosexual acts with a stricter matter than illicit heterosexual actions?

I would want my child to hear the truth. No it is not unwise. Problem with the world today is that parents, teachers, and authorities teach our children how to destroy their lives with opinions and relitive thinking. Children of all ages who stick to the churches teachings bear the fruits that come with it, children who do not bear the fruits of their choice which is self destruction.
I don’t know the second to last anwser. The last question has nothing to do with this thread, any how a sin is a sin.

 

[Kolbe300]

No one is “homosexual to begin with.” Are you saying that some babies are homosexual? How do you know?

Forgive me for stepping into the middle of this, but I feel compelled to comment and hope that maybe I can shed some light on the topic. I am a 31 year old gay man who loves the Catholic Church and believes in her teachings. Because of this, I am single and celibate. In my entire life I have never been physically attracted to a female. I was in second grade when I first recognized my attraction to those of the same sex. Though I spent years and years on my knees praying for that attraction to go away, it never did. Was I born gay? Yes, I was. Do I think God is up there handing out homosexuality to certain humans? Of course not. Sometimes, however, people are born different. Some people are born with severe mental or physical handicaps. No one denies this because you can’t deny what the eyes can see. Unfortunately, people can’t see my homosexuality. Because of this, they will often deny that it could ever have been something that’s always been there. I don’t blame you for not understanding or having difficulty believing that. All I’d ask is that you try.
For those of you who have children and don’t believe they could ever be struggling with being gay, I pray you will do as my parents did and never speak harshly towards any group of people. Preach the truth and do it with Christ-like compassion and love. There are so many young people dealing with this cross and I pray for them constantly. It’s a difficult road because I was that baby, that child, that teen, and I am that man.
Again, forgive me for stepping in. For whatever it’s worth, wanner47, that’s how I know.

I pray this can shed a little bit of light on the subject and hope you have a wonderful day.

Peace and Love

 

[wanner47]

Forgive me for stepping into the middle of this, but I feel compelled to comment and hope that maybe I can shed some light on the topic. I am a 31 year old gay man who loves the Catholic Church and believes in her teachings. Because of this, I am single and celibate. In my entire life I have never been physically attracted to a female. I was in second grade when I first recognized my attraction to those of the same sex. Though I spent years and years on my knees praying for that attraction to go away, it never did. Was I born gay? Yes, I was. Do I think God is up there handing out homosexuality to certain humans? Of course not. Sometimes, however, people are born different. Some people are born with severe mental or physical handicaps. No one denies this because you can’t deny what the eyes can see. Unfortunately, people can’t see my homosexuality. Because of this, they will often deny that it could ever have been something that’s always been there. I don’t blame you for not understanding or having difficulty believing that. All I’d ask is that you try.
For those of you who have children and don’t believe they could ever be struggling with being gay, I pray you will do as my parents did and never speak harshly towards any group of people. Preach the truth and do it with Christ-like compassion and love. There are so many young people dealing with this cross and I pray for them constantly. It’s a difficult road because I was that baby, that child, that teen, and I am that man.
Again, forgive me for stepping in. For whatever it’s worth, wanner47, that’s how I know.

 

[Kolbe300]

Kolbe300;3110786:

You having sexual feelings toward other children in the 2nd grade?

Not even heterosexual children have sexual feelings about other children in the 2nd grade unless there is a psychological disorder or some sort of abuse happening. I am truly sorry if that is/was the case for you.

I had to laugh when I read what you said here. After posting my reply and re-reading it, I knew you were going to reply with that. Unfortunately it was too late for me to edit it! It’s my own fault though because I wasn’t clear with what I said. Of course my attraction in second grade was not sexual in nature. I didn’t even know what sex was then (thankfully). The attraction was physical insomuch as “you’re cute” but had nothing whatsoever to do with sex.

I thank God because I was never abused as a child in any form. I had (and still have) a wonderful and loving family. I was blessed with a wonderful childhood. Had that not been the case, I don’t know if I would be here today. Anyways, hope that clears your concern up.

Peace and Love

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

wanner47;3110859:

I had to laugh when I read what you said here. After posting my reply and re-reading it, I knew

you were going to reply with that. Unfortunately it was too late for me to edit it! It’s my own fault though because I wasn’t clear with what I said. Of course my attraction in second grade was not sexual in nature. I didn’t even know what sex was then (thankfully). The attraction was physical insomuch as “you’re cute” but had nothing whatsoever to do with sex.

I thank God because I was never abused as a child in any form. I had (and still have) a wonderful and loving family. I was blessed with a wonderful childhood. Had that not been the case, I don’t know if I would be here today. Anyways, hope that clears your concern up.

Peace and Love

Kolbe,

Thank you for sharing your story.
I have a question or two.
where you told to act on your homosexual desires?
when you told your parents that you were homosexual, what was their reaction (not in regards to still loving you) but in offering guidance, what you should or should not do etc.

 

[wanner47]

wanner47;3110859:

I had to laugh when I read what you said here. After posting my reply and re-reading it, I knew

you were going to reply with that. Unfortunately it was too late for me to edit it! It’s my own fault though because I wasn’t clear with what I said. Of course my attraction in second grade was not sexual in nature. I didn’t even know what sex was then (thankfully). The attraction was physical insomuch as “you’re cute” but had nothing whatsoever to do with sex.

I thank God because I was never abused as a child in any form. I had (and still have) a wonderful and loving family. I was blessed with a wonderful childhood. Had that not been the case, I don’t know if I would be here today. Anyways, hope that clears your concern up.

Peace and Love

I am glad to hear that you weren’t abused.

I don’t think that thinking someone of the same gender is “cute” necessarily indicates homosexual inclinations. When I was that age, I thought certain girls in my class were “cute,” just as I thought most of the boys were “icky.”

I would encourage you to research more about the so-called “gay gene” as studied by the folks at NARTH. For example, this article says:

Dr. Collins succinctly reviewed the research on homosexuality and offers the following: “An area of particularly strong public interest is the genetic basis of homosexuality. Evidence from twin studies does in fact support the conclusion that heritable factors play a role in male homosexuality. However, the likelihood that the identical twin of a homosexual male will also be gay is about 20% (compared with 2-4 percent of males in the general population), indicating that sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations.”

Dr. Collins noted that environment, particularly childhood experiences as well as the role of free will choices affect all of us in profound ways. As researchers discover increasing levels of molecular detail about inherited factors that underlie our personalities, it’s critical that such data be used to illuminate, not provide support to idealogues.

You can find more articles here.

 

[Elric]

No one is “homosexual to begin with.” Are you saying that some babies are homosexual? How do you know?

According to certain “studies” they are.

But I dont believe that babies are actually sexually active.

Exactly. So why should I, or anyone else, listen to or believe what you say about interpretation of Scripture?

Because I am not mentioned in the Bible?

You are kidding right?

There isn’t an infallible translation, but thankfully Christ gave us an infallible interpreter – the Catholic Church. And the Catholic Church says that the Bible says that homosexual acts are immoral.

No comment.

You certainly seem to claim to know its authoritative teachings on homosexuality.

No, I never made such a claim. I dont understand your need to be defensive and make these accusations of things I have never claimed.

Believe it or not, I actually thought the same things that you did. That is until I did my own study and found that I was mislead.

Actually, it’s quite clear in that homosexual acts are sins.

Not according to those passages that you quoted. Do you have any other Bible verses that make things clear about homosexuality?

That is what the Church teaches as well. Teen4Christ seems to deny that the Bible teaches that homosexual acts of any nature are immoral, which is why I cited those verses.

Well those bible verses didnt prove anything (one is ambigous while the other appears to relate only to hetrosexuals commiting homosexual acts). Do you have any more Bible verses?

What Bible version did you get those verses from (were they both from the NIV)?

Some are not that good with their translations.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Because the subject’s personal sex habits, which are the topic of the thread, are not in accordance with Church teaching, and the OP doesn’t seem to realize that (or disagrees with it), thus the discussion.

I guess the key word here is ‘topic’, is there something in the title to indicate a discussion of form of homosexual sex acts? It seems to me the title asks about “destine to hell” could you point to the post in which the OP asked to discuss the sex practices of a homosexual?

I’m not treating him differently. If someone else posted a thread that said, “I continually masturbate; am I destined for hell?” or “I routinely commit adultery; am I destined for hell?” or something similar, I would respond in the same way.

I find that hard to believe for example the subject of masturbation arose on this thread and no one asked about how that was performed. In fact the relationship of this being illicit appears to be dropped quickly. i would suggest this is another example that the heterosexual practice of masturbation was treated differently than the homosexual illicit sex.

And it’s those teachings that we’re discussing

occasionally yes however i would invite you to consider answering the earlier request to marty30 to correlate some of the earlier post with catholic teaching.

Well, you’re going to be disappointed, because the Church will always teach that homosexual acts are immoral.

?? I do not understand this comment maybe when you explain the teaching base for many of the earlier posts, your comment will make sense to me?.

 

[Dale_M]

And what branch of Christianity condones or says homosexual acts are moral/not a sin??

I know of a mainline Protestant denomination (1.2 million members) in the U.S. and one in Canada (700,000 members) which officially support same sex marriages and have a liturgy to perform them. I won’t name these churches, since this is a Catholic board.

Matt, I hope you do not mind that I am including you in my prayers. Your whole life is ahead of you and you will be facing many challenges. I wish you well and pray you will keep your heart turned towards God.

I’m done with this thread…its gotten a bit rough and I’m not sure it serves a useful purpose anymore.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

as a parent of a teenager, I would have no issue with the comments… especially in light of being shown church teachings on homosexuality.
If my child was shown the teachings of the church and still chose to make comments such as “I am too cute to be chaste”, “Anal/oral sex in marriage is ok”–referring to homosexual marriage.
“I am not sexual active, but I perform/receive oral sex”, “I dont need to use self control”–in regards to homosexual acts.
"Whoops…I’m not even close to chastity if that’s the case. “,
" I do”–in regards to following the teachings of Christ. etc.
Let me tell you, if my son made these comments and many others I would be wondering if he

1. really wanted help or attention.
2. does he really know what a follower of Christ is.
   3, I would question him on how can you profess to be a follower of Christ yet go against his teachings and the Churches
   and the list goes on and on.
   So to answer your question, No I would not have any problem with the comments. I would thank the people on the forum for caring about my son, his soul and his salvation!

First I would ask you to count the number of times your post include the words anal or oral, then do the same for the OP and post that data. Please do this if for no other reason than to tolerate me.

Second I would ask you what percentage of the people you know also know Christ so well to be complete in compliance with Christ’s teaching. Would this not be the same as sin-free (or grace)? So what percent?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I would want my child to hear the truth.

is part of the truth all have sinned?

No it is not unwise.

to laugh at a young person’s belief and tell them they have a reading comprehension problem is the wise method? I remain in disagreement. However I thank you for sharing this opinion

 Problem with the world today is that parents, teachers, and authorities teach our children how to destroy their lives with opinions and relative thinking.

I am a parent, I teach occasionally at RCIA so am I headed to Hell with the other teachers, parents, and authorities?

     Children of all ages who stick to the church’s teachings bear the fruits that come with it, children who do not bear the fruits of their choice which is self destruction.

I am confused, did something change? The church used to teach unmarried teens were to be celibate, this thread only occasionally mentions that issue and it is not what recent pages are about.

I don’t know the second to last answer. The last question has nothing to do with this thread, any how a sin is a sin.

Thank you for your reply

 

[Kolbe300]

Kolbe300;3110955:

Kolbe,

Thank you for sharing your story.
I have a question or two.
where you told to act on your homosexual desires?
when you told your parents that you were homosexual, what was their reaction (not in regards to still loving you) but in offering guidance, what you should or should not do etc.

Hello! Thank you for your questions. First of all, I was never told to act on my homosexual desires by anyone. They are desires I have never acted out.

I told my parents I was gay when I was 28 years old, not all that long ago. I told no one at all until I was in college. At that time I only told my spiritual advisors. I dated a few girls in high school and college, each time in an effort to appear and hopefully become “normal.” Obviously, those relationships never worked out. I was fairly firm in my beliefs before I ever told my parents so they didn’t really have to guide me as far as what the Church teaches. I contemplated telling my parents much earlier but was always afraid to do so. I wasn’t afraid at all of what their reactions would be. They are compassionate and loving people, they would never abandon me and I knew that. Anytime they spoke of homosexuality it was in a loving and compassionate way. I was afraid because I wanted so desperately and prayed so desperately for my sexuality to change. I hoped for a long time that it would. I no longer, nor will I ever again, pray that my sexuality changes. My prayer now is that I become the person God wants me to become. If I wake up attracted to women tomorrow, that’s great. If not, that’s great. I am God’s child, I am created (every part of me) and I am loved.

It is imperative that parents do not display a disdain or hatred towards any group of people. The thought of how many gay kids listen to their parents give voice to their hatred of “faggots” literally breaks my heart. Those children are living something that even I can’t fathom. I know how difficult it is to grow up gay. I was lucky enough to do it in a very loving home. Whether you believe a person is born gay or not is completely irrelevant. A young person CAN be gay. To deny that is to choose to be ignorant. (I’m certainly not accusing you of this! I just feel it’s something people need to hear.) No matter how much love you show them they may not want to tell you. What’s important is that they know they are loved. Thank you again for your questions and have a wonderful day!

Peace and Love

 

[Kolbe300]

I don’t think that thinking someone of the same gender is “cute” necessarily indicates homosexual inclinations.

I agree, especially at that age.

When I was that age, I thought certain girls in my class were “cute,” just as I thought most of the boys were “icky.”

Where your experience probably differs from mine is that I never stopped feeling that the girls were “icky”. (Sorry ladies .) When you were realizing your strong physical attraction towards the opposite sex, I was realizing the same strong physical attraction towards those of the same sex. As I got older my sexuality developed just as yours did.

I would encourage you to research more about the so-called “gay gene” as studied by the folks at NARTH.

Although I can’t know it for sure, I have a feeling I’ve done more research on this subject than you have. Haha. I believe you will find just as many articles supporting the possibility of homosexuality being genetic as you will against that idea. There is one indisputable fact, however: A gay gene has not been officially discovered, nor has the possibility of a gay gene been proven to not exist. That leaves one conclusion: Right now, only God knows.

The Christian Churches (and much of society) are going to be militant in debunking any suggestion of a gay gene. I understand that because I can only imagine the riot a discovery of that kind would create. It would require a whole bunch of people to open their mouths wide in an effort to insert their entire foot. The Church’s teachings would not change (as they shouldn’t), but a number of not-so-nice people would owe an apology or two.

The interesting thing that I find in the articles against a person being born homosexual are the factors the experts claim create the homosexual “tendencies.” There are two things almost always (if not always) mentioned as the causing factors: Physical abuse and a lousy or absent father. As I mentioned, I was never abused in any form. My father was not only there for me, but an inspiring, loving, and a wonderful role-model. (As was my mother.) I simply don’t fit into ANY of their theories, nor do any of the Gay men that I know. A prominent doctor and author whose name I won’t mention said that in his working with literally hundreds of homosexuals he had NEVER (that’s right, never) met one who had a good father. I find that interesting since I know just a few gay men and they all have had wonderful fathers.

It leaves me standing back with my arms in the air and asking, “Well what about me then?” To be honest, though, whether a gay gene exists or not to me is irrelevant. I know who I am and I know my life’s experience. I also know there are many young gay men and women who are suffering terribly right now at the hands of their family, their friends, their society, and even at times their Church. For them, and for all of you I will pray!

Thanks again and Merry Christmas!

Peace and Love

 

[Teen4Christ]

I had a dream last night. In it, I saw my future life if I continue to deny myself and I didn’t like it one bit. I need to be honest with myself.

 

[wanner47]

I had a dream last night. In it, I saw my future life if I continue to deny myself and I didn’t like it one bit. I need to be honest with myself.

You need to ask yourself: did that dream come from God or Satan?

I can almost guarantee that it wasn’t the former, but rather the latter.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I had a dream last night. In it, I saw my future life if I continue to deny myself and I didn’t like it one bit. I need to be honest with myself.

Maybe you have not reached full honest with yourself yet, or with us either? Neither would be unique for a person in their teens.

Can I ask you are you in your teens?

 

[wanner47]

According to certain “studies” they are.

But I dont believe that babies are actually sexually active.

And according to certain studies, they’re not. See the links I provided above.

Because I am not mentioned in the Bible?

You are kidding right?

No, I’m not kidding. You want me to accept your interpretation of Scripture, and I want to know upon what basis or what authority I should accept that interpretation. The only entity given this authority in Scripture, by Jesus, is the Catholic Church.

No, I never made such a claim. I dont understand your need to be defensive and make these accusations of things I have never claimed.

Believe it or not, I actually thought the same things that you did. That is until I did my own study and found that I was mislead.

Why should I accept your personal human fallible authority over that of the Catholic Church’s?

Not according to those passages that you quoted. Do you have any other Bible verses that make things clear about homosexuality?

Well those bible verses didnt prove anything (one is ambigous while the other appears to relate only to hetrosexuals commiting homosexual acts). Do you have any more Bible verses?

What Bible version did you get those verses from (were they both from the NIV)?

Some are not that good with their translations.

Why should I accept your authority regarding what constitutes a “good” translation?

Other verses, from the ESV:

Leviticus 18:22
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Leviticus+20%3A13
Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Matthew+19
3 And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” 4 **He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? **6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

Note that Jesus does not follow this saying by adding, "But it’s okay for a man to lie with another man, or a woman with another woman. That’s just fine and dandy. Wouldn’t that have been an important distinction to add?

gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=1+Timothy+1%3A8-11
1 Timothy 1:8-11
8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, [1] liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound [2] doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

In ADDITION to Scripture, I also accept the Sacred Tradition of the Church.

If Jesus really thought that homosexuality was A-OK, don’t you think he would have told his apostles that? Instead, his apostles, mere years after His ascension, taught that homosexual acts were immoral. The Early Church Fathers taught the same. Do you honestly think Jesus would have allowed his apostles to be wrong on such an issue?

 

[Teen4Christ]

Maybe you have not reached full honest with yourself yet, or with us either? Neither would be unique for a person in their teens.

Can I ask you are you in your teens?

Yes, I’m 16.